Is Preach And The Community Becoming Overly Cynical About The Game?

[Eleccybubb]

The cynicism has been earned at this point. They've made so many poor design choices in a fairly short time with this expansion, and it's just frustrating to see them ignore the feedback, feign that they're listening, and then the very next week take some piece of gameplay that wasn't broken, and wasn't complained about, and then throw that into the wood-chipper, too. I just can't fathom what the design teams and leadership are thinking at this point.

This.

People gave them the benefit of the doubt after WoD.

They then proceeded to take that benefit of the doubt and then stamp on it with BFA. Hence why there has been a mass exodus from the game.

People are tired of giving companies second or third chances and it's showing a lot within the industry recently.

[Dormie]

If anything he is far too kind, BFA is shit. The gameplay is shit, the story is shit, the classes are shit, the AP system is shit. Gear is shit, dungeons are shit, raids are pathetic garbage that get outshined by Argent Tournament. Even Classic will end up being shit because Blizzard is too brain dead to do anything right ever.

Sounds like you're just garbage.

[Onikaroshi]

People leaving the game in droves is not factual. Where are you getting your facts from? What’s your source? Or are you just talking about a feeling? Given that you don’t play the game where do you get this feeling from?

Long time players that I've known for many years, who lasted through WOD quitting.

Eso, GW2, FFXIV having an insane number of "wow refugee" threads started on ALL relevant media (reddit, official forums, etc)

Eso and FF having daily threads on the OFFICIAL WOW FORUMS about people leaving to them filled with people in agreement.

You'd have to be blind to not see it all, it won't kill wow, but BfA definitely killed wow for a lot of long time people.

[Eleccybubb]

Long time players that I've known for many years, who lasted through WOD quitting.

Eso, GW2, FFXIV having an insane number of "wow refugee" threads started on ALL relevant media (reddit, official forums, etc)

Eso and FF having daily threads on the OFFICIAL WOW FORUMS about people leaving to them filled with people in agreement.

You'd have to be blind to not see it all, it won't kill wow, but BfA definitely killed wow for a lot of long time people.

ESO literally had to put a login restriction/queue on PC servers due to "an influx of new players" if I recall.

That's what I read anyway.

[Onikaroshi]

ESO literally had to put a login restriction/queue on PC servers due to "an influx of new players" if I recall.

That's what I read anyway.

You're not wrong https://forums.elderscrollsonline.co...pc-eu-april-10

[dope_danny]

"I can't look this deeply into them or care this much"

and theres the disconnect.

[Gasparde]

Both this video and his first look at the Essence system video are the 2 most half-assed vids I've seen from Preach in at least... the last 3 years.

In his first video he mad an incredibly big fuzz about these Essences being role-specific and thus shared by pretty much everyone, which would in turn make them an absolute insane nightmare to balance - quite literally impossible to balance. Completely ignoring the fact that we've just come from an expansion where Convergence of Times was a thing, a trinket that was shared by like 10 specs with each of them having different RPPM values and with blizzard having shown that they'Re not afraid of nerfing some silly outliers like Ret Paladin by like 70% without this affecting anyone else whatsoever.

This last video is barely any different to that. Hes talking about how this is immediately going to break the game, how it's going to be impossible to balance, how we're just going to get like 40% stronger the day the patch hits. Yet he's only looking at the highest possible runes without giving a single thought about their acquisition. It's very well possible that these purple runes are indeed that strong.... but it's also very possible, or even likely that we're not going to start with every single purple Essence unlocked. It's quite likely that green Essences are quite shit in comparison. It's very much possible that some of these Essence won't be available before the raid hits. It's plausible to assume that it'll take us quite some time before we get the actual blue, let alone purple Essences. And it's also pretty obvious that most of these Essences are gonna be hit by a fucking nerf sledgehammer within the next couple weeks and then again another 80% sledgehammer 1 week after they hit live. But all he's talking about is how these possibly not available before Azshara-mythic and completely untested and untuned Essences are almost inevitably going to change the game irreversibly without even mentioning all these very fixable and timegate-able factors.

I think the Essence system is crap. It's a bad bandaid to a system that's been a bad idea from the start - if this is the best they could come up with after working on this stuff for 8+ months.... that's just sad. With that being said, Preach's been kinda half-assing his research/analysis on this topic to a degree that I'm not used to from him. This quite literally feels like panicmongering from someone who seems very uninformed and/or oblivious of the matter. Like, yes, fuck this half-baked Essence shit, that's not gonna change anything about classes feeling dull af, my hunter being able to throw random azerite boulders or fire random azerite lasers is not what I wanted.... BUT... Preach's videos seem very sensationalist and clickbait-y, which is very unusual for him imo.

[Gungnir]

Preach is that way for a couple reasons... 1, He likely feels resentment based on where the game was. 2, he gets clicks and watches by having the negative opinion. Clicks and watches likely turn in to money.

As people have pointed numerous times in this thread, he's demonetized. He gets no money.
Even if he wasn't, he doesn't have a viewerbase large enough to earn anything at all.

Preach genuinely just always gives his opinion if he thinks that something is a bad idea. He's been doing it since MoP, and he'll continue doing it until he decides not to anymore.
Saying that somehow Preach is behind general negativity or that he's too negative about something is facetious as fuck. He's critical about the state of BfA and he has every right to be, he also has every right to voice his opinion and a lot of people watch his content because he's been a top-end raider for most of WoW's lifespan so he has a lot more handson experience with content and systems than a lot of other people.

What this means is that regardless if you hate him or not, if he sees something that has potential problems regarding balance and how it's implemented, he's likely correct.
I mean shit, while everyone was hyped during early BfA alpha/beta, he was one of very few being critical about the Azerite system and how it was being implemented and portrayed, while people said that we should wait until the game goes live to see how it turns out.
Didn't go so well.

Both this video and his first look at the Essence system video are the 2 most half-assed vids I've seen from Preach in at least... the last 3 years.

In his first video he mad an incredibly big fuzz about these Essences being role-specific and thus shared by pretty much everyone, which would in turn make them an absolute insane nightmare to balance - quite literally impossible to balance. Completely ignoring the fact that we've just come from an expansion where Convergence of Times was a thing, a trinket that was shared by like 10 specs with each of them having different RPPM values and with blizzard having shown that they'Re not afraid of nerfing some silly outliers like Ret Paladin by like 70% without this affecting anyone else whatsoever.

This last video is barely any different to that. Hes talking about how this is immediately going to break the game, how it's going to be impossible to balance, how we're just going to get like 40% stronger the day the patch hits. Yet he's only looking at the highest possible runes without giving a single thought about their acquisition. It's very well possible that these purple runes are indeed that strong.... but it's also very possible, or even likely that we're not going to start with every single purple Essence unlocked. It's quite likely that green Essences are quite shit in comparison. It's very much possible that some of these Essence won't be available before the raid hits. It's plausible to assume that it'll take us quite some time before we get the actual blue, let alone purple Essences. And it's also pretty obvious that most of these Essences are gonna be hit by a fucking nerf sledgehammer within the next couple weeks and then again another 80% sledgehammer 1 week after they hit live. But all he's talking about is how these possibly not available before Azshara-mythic and completely untested and untuned Essences are almost inevitably going to change the game irreversibly without even mentioning all these very fixable and timegate-able factors.

I think the Essence system is crap. It's a bad bandaid to a system that's been a bad idea from the start - if this is the best they could come up with after working on this stuff for 8+ months.... that's just sad. With that being said, Preach's been kinda half-assing his research/analysis on this topic to a degree that I'm not used to from him. This quite literally feels like panicmongering from someone who seems very uninformed and/or oblivious of the matter. Like, yes, fuck this half-baked Essence shit, that's not gonna change anything about classes feeling dull af, my hunter being able to throw random azerite boulders or fire random azerite lasers is not what I wanted.... BUT... Preach's videos seem very sensationalist and clickbait-y, which is very unusual for him imo.

It's not really clickbaity or too dramatic of him when you literally pointed out the two different scenarios that he, albeit with some rambling, also touched heavily upon.
Either the traits will be DISGUSTINGLY overpowered to the point of literally breaking the game for some classes as they become flooded with resources.. or they get nerfhammered through the earth and all of the sudden none of the traits/essences are something you actually want or are interesting in.. at which point the necklace just becomes, as he said, a glorified trinket.

Either way it's a horrible situation to be in and as you said yourself, it's just an incredibly poor bandaid that will do more harm than good if the DESIGN stays the way it is.

[Weeps]

It's not that much different from labeling people as white knights, Blizzard Defense Force, or paid shills. There's a lot wrong on both sides of this. Either way it's not a reasonable conversation that anyone would want to have.

Here's how I see it...

When people say "OMG BFA IZ AMAZING YOU JUST NEED TO UNSUB!"

They deserve all the "white knight" and "shill" posts they can get.

Why do I feel that way?

Because if someone legitimately outlines why they don't like BfA, the appropriate response would be to either offer a rebuttal or an acknowledgement.

Yes, same could be true for the opposite.

"Bfa sux."

They deserve all the "Gtfo, troll, unsub" posts.

Constructive posts deserve constructive answers.

[niztheundead87]

[Selah]

Actually Preach isnt that cynical, I actually think he is constructive he offers criticism with solutions and does tend to praise the game where it matters

There are worse people out there like Heelvbabyface who literally shit of WoW for the sake of shitting on it, his whole Youtube channel is based off of negativity.

This is about how I see it. Preach is being critical to be useful, not to be a pain in the ass. Even after the fallout around the ban and the summit, his tone in his videos hasn't changed.

You're right about the other Youtubers though. HvBF is not providing useful feedback or suggestions, he's just being a contrary ass. Asmongold straddles that line a lot too. When he calms down and actually spends time to work out his thoughts, he actually has valuable things to say. Everything before that tends to be crap.

I think out of all of them though, Nixxiom has been the biggest disappointment. Him dropping the machinimas and jumping onto the "critic" train was the worst. His channel just quickly eroded in quality and became another run of the mill WoW Youtuber.

[MrExcelion]

"This is the worst expansion ever. If you dont agree with me you're stupid." this is the attitude that drives me away from the game.

My two cents: I don't follow Youtube all that much. I just play or don't play. If a video isn't entertaining or informative to watch, don't bother.

[Dolus]

Imho, the changes are too little too late for this expansion.

[hulkgor]

Preach, and other Youtube "personalities" get money from hits\clicks... it should be no surprise they create this sort of videos fill with criticism to attract views and discussion.

What surprises me is that people actually take it seriously, sigh.

Who cares what <insert random youtuber> thinks.

[Jastall]

It's hard not to get cynical and burned out after 14, soon 15, years of the same game.

Not that this is a catch-all excuse. Blizzard fucked up several things with BFA, no doubt about it, and actually improved on very few things from Legion which to me is even worse. I do think the whole "worst xpack ever!" thing is hyperbolic when WoD exists, but opinions gonna opinion. The main point is, this is an old ass game that players both want to see be revolutionized but also don't want to see changed one bit.

Blizzard is trying to please both parties, and ends up ping-ponging between extremes when it comes to design decisions. For example, going from ability bloat in Mists to the overpruning later on, or going from "literally nothing to do outside of raids" in WoD to "Titanforging, AP grinds and M+ make raids less relevant than ever!" now. I think that's WoW's biggest weakness in general, and BFA's weakness in particular was banking on systems (Islands, Warfronts, Azerite) that were half-baked at best trying to reach these goals.

[Craaazyyy]

"This is the worst expansion ever. If you dont agree with me you're stupid." this is the attitude that drives me away from the game.

why would someone elses attitude towards the game drive you away from that game?

also ofc he used to be more chill when the game wasnt a hot garbage like it is now.. worse game = harsher reviews

[Sanguinerd]

Preach, and other Youtube "personalities" get money from hits\clicks... it should be no surprise they create this sort of videos fill with criticism to attract views and discussion.

What surprises me is that people actually take it seriously, sigh.

Who cares what <insert random youtuber> thinks.

Havn't you heard? He's(on page 5):

arguably the most influential and high quality WoW content creator there is

That means we have to care!!1!!1 right?!

[Craaazyyy]

Imho, the changes are too little too late for this expansion.

its not that they're late, its that they're not going to change anything.. adding one stupid ability that is the same for everyone? insane

[Lurker1]

Simple fact of the matter is this.

When some of the most well know people who loved WoW say this is the worst expansion ever or are being critical it says a damn lot.

However when even Crendor who is normally known for his neutrality is critical then you've done something wrong.

However. Form your own opinion of the game. Simple as that.

I find it very funny whenever you comment because im like sitting in que for almost a one hour for a group dungeon final fantasy 14 is not as played as you think it is if it was i would have gotten a pop window by a hour later i rather have WoW BFA at this point lol i gave it a try for my bro but nope sorry bro not gonna happen o-clock.

[Irian]

"This is the worst expansion ever. If you dont agree with me you're stupid." this is the attitude that drives me away from the game.

That isn't what anyone is saying though. It's really easy to discredit an entire unhappy mass with a blanket opinion shared by almost no one.

I haven't watched Preach's video and I don't particularly like him, but I will say that he has every reason to be cynical about the Heart Forge. It's literally just the UI of the glyph system slapped onto another system that's already being slapped upon another system. I think people are fed up with expansion-specific systems that are so poorly thought out that they require several iterations of design in order to be even moderately tolerable.

BfA reeks of sloppy, hurried game design and half-thought through mechanics, and the pretentious Q&As where Ion spends 40-60 minutes telling us why the design of the game is actually good despite how we personally feel is tiring and tells everyone that they aren't getting the message. The opinion has gone from upset to cynically negative, and that's anything but a good thing. We went from having tentative hopeful expectations to approaching anything new from Blizzard with a cynical and hyper-critical view.