Avengers: Endgame (2019)

[Appelgren]

Ironically, Thanos' plan was the plan God had Moses carry out. The only difference is, God's plan according to scripture, was to wipe out 99.99% of the world's population to start over, and that plan was considered good, and God is good, but Thanos' plan to wipe out just half is villainous, and Thanos is the bad guy.

Food for thought. I mean, I don't think anyone would ever disagree that the human race is hypocritical to the core.

I agree with Thanos but 50% is waaay to little.
If i could snap my fingerns and kill off everyone except for at few select european countries I would FOR SURE do it without even blinking.

Just imagine how damn gorgeous the world would be

[I am disappoint]

Pick a movie, I’m not going to break them all down for you.

Pick your favourite.

[eschatological]

Saw it for a second time this weekend - and I agree with some of the milder criticisms, that it's paced a bit poorly and that it wastes a lot of time in the beginning.

Cut Scott Lang's scene down while he has that brief interaction with a kid on a bike. Cut the following scene a bit more so he's not running through all the plaques - presumably he knows how to spell, and can directly go to the L one and see if Cassie is dusted, and run into his own name.

Cut BW's scene with the holograms down to just her and War Machine. That should be enough to drive the impetus of the emotion she's feeling.

Cut Cap's scene with the support group. Is this really how he's helping the world cope? This seems super dumb.

I hate to say it, but cut the beginning with RDJ a lot. It could start with him looking into the lens and starting his monologue, cut to VO as Nebula is strapping him into a seat, and as the VO ends, Marvel shows up. The whole paper football thing, toss it.

Diner scene could literally have just been about why Banner is in his new form.

Much as I love the scene, the taco-on-the-landing pad scene could be gone too.

Much of Thor's retrieval could be cut as well. No one even knew if Valkryie was dusted or not. Have her show up at the end, win like a badass, have Thor hand off the reigns.

I think most of the back in time scenes were fine, though I feel like them getting into the base, getting discovered by Shirley from Community, etc, could have been cut. Cap could just come across a door that says, "Margaret Carter," scene accomplished. Even the Howard Stark stuff could be cut a lot.

There's so much fat on this movie, the second time around I was just waiting for the end battle.

[I am disappoint]

the thing I got from watching endgame for the 2nd time is that there are no more infinity stones due to Thanos of 2018 snapped away. With Steve sending back the gems to their proper place, there are bound to be some backlash due to what was told by the ancient one.

There still are in the past, and they can go back anytime they please, take them and use them, as long as they always just bring them back. Or whatever the asspull rules they have set up aure, because they contradict themselves anyway.

[Skulltaker]

Cut Cap's scene with the support group. Is this really how he's helping the world cope? This seems super dumb.

I hate to say it, but cut the beginning with RDJ a lot. It could start with him looking into the lens and starting his monologue, cut to VO as Nebula is strapping him into a seat, and as the VO ends, Marvel shows up. The whole paper football thing, toss it.

I think most of the back in time scenes were fine, though I feel like them getting into the base, getting discovered by Shirley from Community, etc, could have been cut. Cap could just come across a door that says, "Margaret Carter," scene accomplished. Even the Howard Stark stuff could be cut a lot.

I think Cap and the support group wasn't how he helped the world cope, but it is how HE coped. Being there for people, being able to do something.

As for the Stark scenes... from a movie perspective, I agree, they could have been cut, but he kicked the entire thing off, and the character deserved these scenes, especially knowing they will be his last.

[I am disappoint]

Got it. Glad you’re so transparent. Have fun.

What? What are you talking about? You asked me which movie you should explain to me, because you understandably didn't want to go through all of them, and I told you you can pick whichever one you like best... what's the problem now? Is there anything profound in any of the movies, that I missed or not? It seems like you refuse to point out anything, because you don't have anything. Be silent then. Child.

Flaming isn't allowed. Infracted.

[Skulltaker]

Got it. Glad you’re so transparent. Have fun.

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Do you think, and maybe I’m reaching here, Cap was trying to honor his lost friend Falcon? A man who was leading the exact same kind of group when Cap met him?

Might very well be, yes. Maybe a combination of both.

[Fayolynn]

There still are in the past, and they can go back anytime they please, take them and use them, as long as they always just bring them back. Or whatever the asspull rules they have set up aure, because they contradict themselves anyway.

So about that... something that occurred to me at work today, returning the infinity stones is a useless gesture. The rules of time travel in the movie is that you can't change history, going to the past and changing events just creates an alternate timeline where events played out differently. So for example, Hulk takes the time stone from the ancient one and heads back to 2024. This creates a timeline where Dr. Strange won't have access to the Eye of Agamotto to use against Dormammu which results in an easy win for Dormammu. When the time stone gets returned at the end of the movie all it does is creates a 3rd timeline where the stone was first taken away and then returned. The 2nd timeline where the stone was taken away still exists, it can't be undone, that timeline is destined to lose to Dormammu.

TLDR: Any time they take the stones from the past a new timeline is created, and any time they return the stones a new timeline is created. By the end of the film we have 10 separate timelines.

[eschatological]

Got it. Glad you’re so transparent. Have fun.

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Do you think, and maybe I’m reaching here, Cap was trying to honor his lost friend Falcon? A man who was leading the exact same kind of group when Cap met him?

I mean, yeah, I think that's where he got the idea, from Sam Wilson.

But the scene was unnecessary, I think. Cap relying on his friends like BW and Hulk would make more sense in terms of how he copes. Maybe if it was with vets who had survived wars etc, and then the snap happened, it would have hit the tone more on the head.

[I am disappoint]

Nope, you are just doing the usual bullshit dance around. I asked you to pick a film and it was too difficult for you.

lol

I told you to pick a favourite because I wanted to make it easier for you, because you could literally pick anything you want. Picking a movie isn't hard for me. It just narrows it down for you.

Jesus, let's go with

The Avengers.

As if I wasn't able to name a movie...

[eschatological]

So about that... something that occurred to me at work today, returning the infinity stones is a useless gesture. The rules of time travel in the movie is that you can't change history, going to the past and changing events just creates an alternate timeline where events played out differently. So for example, Hulk takes the time stone from the ancient one and heads back to 2024. This creates a timeline where Dr. Strange won't have access to the Eye of Agamotto to use against Dormammu which results in an easy win for Dormammu. When the time stone gets returned at the end of the movie all it does is creates a 3rd timeline where the stone was first taken away and then returned. The 2nd timeline where the stone was taken away still exists, it can't be undone, that timeline is destined to lose to Dormammu.

TLDR: Any time they take the stones from the past a new timeline is created, and any time they return the stones a new timeline is created. By the end of the film we have 10 separate timelines.

The point is for Cap to show up literally seconds after Hulk teleports away from The Ancient One, making that alternate timeline as close to the original as possible.

Hell, I don't see why he can't return it even before Hulk takes it, and then The Ancient One goes to her study, and it's sitting there with a thank you note. Obviously Cap wouldn't be so flippant to leave it around, but it would be a cool effect for her to give it to Hulk, he teleports, she turns around, and Cap is standing there with the stone.

[I am disappoint]

So about that... something that occurred to me at work today, returning the infinity stones is a useless gesture. The rules of time travel in the movie is that you can't change history, going to the past and changing events just creates an alternate timeline where events played out differently. So for example, Hulk takes the time stone from the ancient one and heads back to 2024. This creates a timeline where Dr. Strange won't have access to the Eye of Agamotto to use against Dormammu which results in an easy win for Dormammu. When the time stone gets returned at the end of the movie all it does is creates a 3rd timeline where the stone was first taken away and then returned. The 2nd timeline where the stone was taken away still exists, it can't be undone, that timeline is destined to lose to Dormammu.

TLDR: Any time they take the stones from the past a new timeline is created, and any time they return the stones a new timeline is created. By the end of the film we have 10 separate timelines.

I'm honestly confused by the rules even. I thought maybe the way it is, the timelines are merged again when the stones are returned, but I don't know how that would work. I think they just didn't care cause they just wanted cool timetravel action and didn't think about it too much. They basically told the audience to not think about it too much either.

[Fayolynn]

The point is for Cap to show up literally seconds after Hulk teleports away from The Ancient One, making that alternate timeline as close to the original as possible.

Hell, I don't see why he can't return it even before Hulk takes it, and then The Ancient One goes to her study, and it's sitting there with a thank you note. Obviously Cap wouldn't be so flippant to leave it around, but it would be a cool effect for her to give it to Hulk, he teleports, she turns around, and Cap is standing there with the stone.

I know what the plan is, I'm saying the plan doesn't work because of how they wrote the rules of time travel.

[un_known]

So about that... something that occurred to me at work today, returning the infinity stones is a useless gesture. The rules of time travel in the movie is that you can't change history, going to the past and changing events just creates an alternate timeline where events played out differently. So for example, Hulk takes the time stone from the ancient one and heads back to 2024. This creates a timeline where Dr. Strange won't have access to the Eye of Agamotto to use against Dormammu which results in an easy win for Dormammu. When the time stone gets returned at the end of the movie all it does is creates a 3rd timeline where the stone was first taken away and then returned. The 2nd timeline where the stone was taken away still exists, it can't be undone, that timeline is destined to lose to Dormammu.

TLDR: Any time they take the stones from the past a new timeline is created, and any time they return the stones a new timeline is created. By the end of the film we have 10 separate timelines.

Not when they specifically said that they’ll put the stones back the moment or before they were taken away from that timeline and the reason why 1970 was caps’ final stop as it was where he could meet a version of Peggy and put the space stone back to where it was

[Fayolynn]

I'm honestly confused be the rules even. I thought maybe the way it is, the timelines are merged again when the stones are returned, but I don't know how that would work. I think they just didn't care cause they just wanted cool timetravel action and didn't think about it too much. They basically told the audience to not think about it too much either.

Your take is accurate. I was just thinking about the implication of time travel in the movie and that is what occurred to me. :-P Obviously it will work however they need it to work.

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Not when they specifically said that they’ll put the stones back the moment or before they were taken away from that timeline and the reason why 1970 was caps’ final stop as it was where he could meet a version of Peggy and put the space stone back to where it was

I understand they state that in the movie. But those two concepts run completely counter to each other. If returning the stones gets rid of the alternate timelines that removing them created in the first place that means you can alter the future by changing the past.

[Ragedaug]

The point is for Cap to show up literally seconds after Hulk teleports away from The Ancient One, making that alternate timeline as close to the original as possible.

Hell, I don't see why he can't return it even before Hulk takes it, and then The Ancient One goes to her study, and it's sitting there with a thank you note. Obviously Cap wouldn't be so flippant to leave it around, but it would be a cool effect for her to give it to Hulk, he teleports, she turns around, and Cap is standing there with the stone.

The problem lies in the prime timeline, so returning it is irrelevant to the question. With the stone being destroyed by Thanos, how does the Sorcerer Supreme protect our reality from threats like Dormammu, etc? The Ancient One seemed to make a pretty big point to note she could not give up the stone because it was necessary for the protecting and fighting evil that they do.

[eschatological]

I know what the plan is, I'm saying the plan doesn't work because of how they wrote the rules of time travel.

Them *DOING* something can split off an alternate timeline. That doesn't mean the negation of them doing it keeps going as a separate timeline.

Like, for example, in the alternate timeline, if The Ancient One never gets the time stone back, then yeah, the events of Dr. Strange are fucked. But Cap leaving his timeline and returning the stone "closes the loop," making the timelines virtually indistinguishable. I think it's a hard sell to say that once he returns the stone, the timeline keeps going where he didn't return the stone, because the timelines are only split off by the ACTIONS of time travellers, and not the non-actions.

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The problem lies in the prime timeline, so returning it is irrelevant to the question. With the stone being destroyed by Thanos, how does the Sorcerer Supreme protect our reality from threats like Dormammu, etc? The Ancient One seemed to make a pretty big point to note she could not give up the stone because it was necessary for the protecting and fighting evil that they do.

Oh, I see what you're saying. Yeah, IDK, maybe Stephen Strange becomes powerful enough to do the job? I'd expect that to be part of the plot of Dr. Strange 2.

[Skulltaker]

So about that... something that occurred to me at work today, returning the infinity stones is a useless gesture. The rules of time travel in the movie is that you can't change history, going to the past and changing events just creates an alternate timeline where events played out differently. So for example, Hulk takes the time stone from the ancient one and heads back to 2024. This creates a timeline where Dr. Strange won't have access to the Eye of Agamotto to use against Dormammu which results in an easy win for Dormammu. When the time stone gets returned at the end of the movie all it does is creates a 3rd timeline where the stone was first taken away and then returned. The 2nd timeline where the stone was taken away still exists, it can't be undone, that timeline is destined to lose to Dormammu.

TLDR: Any time they take the stones from the past a new timeline is created, and any time they return the stones a new timeline is created. By the end of the film we have 10 separate timelines.

I know what the plan is, I'm saying the plan doesn't work because of how they wrote the rules of time travel.

Your take is accurate. I was just thinking about the implication of time travel in the movie and that is what occurred to me. :-P Obviously it will work however they need it to work.

The rules of timetravel say that your actions cannot change anything that has already occurred. But, since they return the stone to a point prior of Steven Strange recieving it, that is still a possibility for the 2012 timeline.

For example, in the 2012 timeline, they cannot prohibit Loki from escaping with the Tesseract, even them going back to 1970es and stealing the Tesseract there doesn't change the fact that that happened. It is forever in the past, even if you travel to a point technically prior to it.

[Ragedaug]

I know what the plan is, I'm saying the plan doesn't work because of how they wrote the rules of time travel.

This is why I hate time travel being used as a plot device. I don't mind it in comedies, because time travels ends up being silly. I can't think of a movie where Time Travel is used and doesn't break it's own rules, and leave the audience with way more questions than answers.

[Fayolynn]

Them *DOING* something can split off an alternate timeline. That doesn't mean the negation of them doing it keeps going as a separate timeline.

Like, for example, in the alternate timeline, if The Ancient One never gets the time stone back, then yeah, the events of Dr. Strange are fucked. But Cap leaving his timeline and returning the stone "closes the loop," making the timelines virtually indistinguishable. I think it's a hard sell to say that once he returns the stone, the timeline keeps going where he didn't return the stone, because the timelines are only split off by the ACTIONS of time travellers, and not the non-actions.

But they did do something, they took the time stone. The moment the stone is moved from 2012 to 2024 it created a timeline where the stone was not present. They then did something again by returning the stone. Both actions changed the course of events for the universe so both actions should have created distinct timelines.

Side note, I know time travel isn't real and no one knows how it would really work and for narrative sake they can have anything they want happen. This was more a thought experiment about how things could work based on what was stated in the movie.

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This is why I hate time travel being used as a plot device. I don't mind it in comedies, because time travels ends up being silly. I can't think of a movie where Time Travel is used and doesn't break it's own rules, and leave the audience with way more questions than answers.

One of the only movies I can think of that does time travel well is Primer. They are very consistent with how time travel works in that movie.