Game of Thrones, WOW, Star Wars...you name it....fans and their ''fixes'' : a plague?

[Nerovar]

Your bitch fit amounts to claiming one can't critique literature at all.

Critiquing literature rarely involves writing fanfiction. I do think it's highly disrespectful to take a work of art and say "not only do I think that x is bad for y reasons, I also think that my idea would fit the piece of art better". It pretty much comes down to this.

[Sinyc]

we're fans for a reason. they're writers for a reason.

Yes, that is true. But its clear that the Double D's of GoT want out and wanted to wrap it up. Doesn't make them not writers, but it's sloppy and rushed.

[msdos]

sheep that just eat up whatever these people shit out is the real plague.

the reason why there's 0 fucking soul to anything anymore.

This. People having standards is a universal thing, you could apply it to anything, which is what makes it really easy to tell that the "sheep" standards have really plummeted over the years.
You keep hearing "this generation act so entitled", it's a symptom of their personality flaws they've developed: they have short attention spans, they're stupid, there's TONS of them and they want whatever cheap entertainment they can get their hands on for that sweet dopamine rush, it doesn't even have to be good, it could be publicly hosted memes or Tosh.0, hence, today's WoW.

I mean there's billions of people now, even if you make a turd and sell it for 1$ you make a profit. Look at smart phone apps. Entertainment has probably gone the way of smart phone apps. A giant net made out of seaweed that rakes in golden carp.

[Theodarzna]

Critiquing literature rarely involves writing fanfiction. I do think it's highly disrespectful to take a work of art and say "not only do I think that x is bad for y reasons, I also think that my idea would fit the piece of art better". It pretty much comes down to this.
[...]

If anyone with a straight face can call the 8th season of Game of Thrones art than I can officially declare art to be dead.

[dunkl]

A fan offering opinion on how they'd fix something in tv or movies probably means that something irked them, or that the creators lost touch with what made that story or medium fantastic enough to hook them and make them want to wrap themselves up in it in the first place.I'm excited for the new Godzilla but the crappy humans always opening their mouths ruin what could have been very gripping, impactful or informative scenes. I don't know why writers think they need to inject humor and cringe dialogue into every other scene like marvel, but less or non at all is more. Imagine if Alien had that awful marvel writing in it, it would be forgettable instead of being the an awesome experience, it wouldn't be memorable or likable much at all, and it's moments of intense suspense and horror and it's claustrophobic atmosphere would be much different, even non-existent - because the writers would have the frighteningly gripping scenes interrupted by cutting away from the scene just to show a lame character say a quip or one-liner of sarcasm, then cut back to the action - interrupting intense build up or reveal and ruining the moment.

Film is a visual medium of storytelling so you should make use of that instead of filming what Alfred Hitchcock would have called photographs of people talking (which is marvel in that they don't truly tell stories, they talk and there's spectacle). Individuals who enjoy writing and became fans originally see through some of these failures and attempt either through fun, hobby or to right the wrongs/world by attempting to fix the thing they originally loved but see now that it's broken. Another example is marvel using the medium of film as a disguise to make 'movies'. Their movies are more like wolves in movie's clothing, in that they are more of a marketing scheme using the disguise of storytelling medium of film. People (younger, probably) think they're going to watch a movie but they're getting an advertisement for the next movie. Pretending to tell stories by using the storytelling medium of film, to purposefully not tell stories - and string people along for 22+ movies over 10+ years. Call it marketing or business but what they're continuing to do is a gimmick that denies their 'audience' resolution, as well as not adhering to the basic structure of stories by not truly including middle, plot, character development, theme - there's no takeaway and nothing to reflect on afterwards, nothing to ponder or grow or learn from, just spectacle after spectacle. They're kind of unfulfilling and they know people will keep watching each one just to stay in the loop for the next one, as each 'movie' seems to simply exist in order to to advertise or set up the next one.

Maybe people will grow to see this method and move on as it's a waste of time when they could be watching or doing something more productive than being fans of a movie franchise that has no intention on truly delivering a compete story experience. Fans don't even know why or what they are defending, and some fans see thought this gimmick and propose better or alternate writing for what they hope could create a stronger experience. Keep these movies in comics where it makes sense, and stop using the story telling medium of film to not tell stories.

[Grapemask]

Criticism is what keeps things from going to shit. Pretty much everyone involved in the Star Wars prequels, for example, admits that the problems stemmed from no one in George Lucas's orbit being willing to contradict his crappier ideas. In the first set of films, he was a mostly-unknown making a movie everyone thought would bomb, so even his own crew opposed his direction - but 20 years later, he was considered a god who could do no wrong. 1999 George Lucas with the 1977 crew probably would've made an unparalleled prequel trilogy.

Now, the real shitbags are the devoted fans. You know why WoW keeps getting crappier? The official WoW forums give the team a safe space of fan boys who would overwhelmingly thumbs up the game even if the next expansion just stripped it down to a DOS window that blue screens out after you hit enter. Sure, they have financial information to tell them how they're really doing, but it's hard to get down to what's wrong when the loudest voice set up in their backyard is yelling for Blizzard to please grace them with a steaming pile of shit directly into their mouth.

[Nerovar]

If anyone with a straight face can call the 8th season of Game of Thrones art than I can officially declare art to be dead.

You not liking something does not make it less of a piece of art.

[msdos]

You not liking something does not make it less of a piece of art.

If people don't want to experience it at all, then it isn't art. Not saying that's the case with GoT or whatever, I know zilch about those books.

[Theodarzna]

mindless sheep that just eat up whatever these people shit out is the real plague.

the reason why there's 0 fucking soul to anything anymore. subhuman, soulless, unfeeling, and uncaring filth have ruined everything.

Or, to quote red letter media...

[Grimbold21]

That's a fair assessment.

But you'll have to concede that it's also "a plague" to see people getting easily emotional and excited about content that is bad, as clear as the sun, as is the case with GoT s8.

There is no contest. This last season is the culmination of illogical rush. You can cry over dead people and dragons, you can be mad about bad characters getting the upper hand, but if you're unable to recognize that the writing IS bad, well that's not me being a skeptic or cynic.

[Powerogue]

I was going to link one of "How it should have ended"'s videos, which I thought were harmlessly funny snark on that topic, but just wound up watching this one from them again:



IMO there's nothing wrong with fans writing their own stuff, just when they're so arrogant that they get angry at the writers for their headcanon not coming true. (I've been disappointed, but never taken it out on the writers with personal attacks, there's a difference)

Consider that many fans of old stuff wind up writing the reboots down the line. MLP: Friendship is Magic, Ducktales, and She-Ra came from that which I know of, and those I'd all say turned out better than their predecessors.

[Every Pwny]

In terms of GoT, it's clear they wanted to just finish it out, so it ends up being pretty bad. But the further they got from the books the worse it became and that really shows, so the quality goes downhill from what people came to love about GoT simply because they didn't have the reference of the books to draw from, but they have a bigger budget to do cool visuals. A bigger problem is when people expect something like GoT or SW to be free of criticism, because you just have to "shut off your brain" to enjoy it. A lot of people don't want to shut off their brains to only passively consume some form of media.

[Tojara]

The amount of people I met growing up that went into writing, or would consider themselves writers was pretty rare. Apparently on the internet, every other person is a writer who could do better though.

In regards to GoT there are things I would love to see turn out differently, but I confess, that my ideas just like the majority of fan ideas are just as retarded or even worse than what we actually got in the show. You see this a lot in franchises which are drawing to a close because everybody is so invested in the series, and every single person has an idea of how it would end. Doesn't match up with how you envisioned it? Well it's shit.

I haven't read the books, but I've read books of other series that were adapted to film or television series. Film and television are completely different mediums and people honestly need to recognize that. If you expect something to be completely faithful to the source material in every single way, well, you're naive, sorry. It's way easier to write something down and have loads of secondary characters in a book than it is to faithfully recreate every single area, plot and character in a movie or television. It's not like they have infinite money, with infinite amounts of time to get everything done.

I have gripes with S8 of GoT, and I have gripes with other seasons of the show too. Could I do better? No. I understand the shows been past the source material for quite sometime now, but what do you honestly expect them to do. GRRM is probably going to be dead before he ever finishes the actual source material, and it's not like the earlier seasons of GoT faithfully recreated every aspect of the book to television either. We live in a world with actors that are aging and writers/directors that eventually want to go forth and do other shit too. As "bad" as later seasons of GoT turned out, I'd much rather take that than the entire series coming to a halt after the conclusion of S5 so we could wait for the source material (which still isn't done) to catch up. S6 probably and parts of S7 likely wouldn't have been in development until 2023 at this point lol.

At the end of the day art is just opinion, just like my post is purely opinion. People can act as smug as they want, declaring that if somebody likes something they don't, that they're stupid and don't know what art is. I've been to art museums with abstract art where half the people are in awe, while the other half are confused as fuck. To me it looks like somebody dropped their pants and shit all over a canvas, to others, well, that's art.

[Harbour]

Disclaimer : I'm a very amateur author and I'm perfectly aware I suck. I have a least the common sense to acknowledge than even the authors of dino-porn erotica do something better than me (steamy tyranosaurus backdoor shenanigans ? No, I mean in general) that is getting read and published.

Simply said, few things (except Nazis and the CSA) irritate me than YouTube videos of fans ''fixing'' movies, comics, videogames, books, TV shows, anime…This is not to say that X,Y or Z is without flaws, but it always struck me of sheer arrogance of people, who are mere fans, be so sure of themselves that they are persuaded that they would do better than professionals.

Lets be honest, amount of stupidity in current SW, GoT or WoW is at the level, when pointing at it doesnt speak of arrogance. It is at the level, when even 15 yo kid with a bit of common sense and imagination can write and think of better story.

[sarahtasher]

Lets be honest, amount of stupidity in current SW, GoT or WoW is at the level, when pointing at it doesnt speak of arrogance. It is at the level, when even 15 yo kid with a bit of common sense and imagination can write and think of better story.

Dos not like it : fine

Writer better : no. Absolutely not. 99% of ideas for ''fixing'' Star Wars are fan-fiction rehashes. (and amongst the 1% remaining, most are unfilmable)

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In terms of GoT, it's clear they wanted to just finish it out, so it ends up being pretty bad. But the further they got from the books the worse it became and that really shows, so the quality goes downhill from what people came to love about GoT simply because they didn't have the reference of the books to draw from, but they have a bigger budget to do cool visuals. A bigger problem is when people expect something like GoT or SW to be free of criticism, because you just have to "shut off your brain" to enjoy it. A lot of people don't want to shut off their brains to only passively consume some form of media.

Criticism, as other saids, typically does not come off ''I could do better''.

[Razzako]

Another horrible creation of the internet and social media, the entitled generation and thinking we can tell a story better than the creators, back seat writers we have all become.

We are entitled to our opinions of the story but it's when we start telling the writers how to do their job that's when it really reached peak idiocy :P

I mean, yes and no.

It's not hard to recognize bad writing, the writing of GoT is certainly way worse than other previous seasons, but "fixing" or proposing changes to the story is another thing entirely and those are usually no better than fanfictions, further, technically all of those are fanfictions too lol. But amongst those fanfictions, you could say there is a dime in a dozen, just like in pretty much anything else.

[Every Pwny]

Dos not like it : fine

Writer better : no. Absolutely not. 99% of ideas for ''fixing'' Star Wars are fan-fiction rehashes. (and amongst the 1% remaining, most are unfilmable)

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Criticism, as other saids, typically does not come off ''I could do better''.

Essentially both Disney and D&D are creating fanfiction for these already established properties. They aren't writing for a world they created, they are writing for an already established world and trying to write a story that would make sense in those universes. Criticizing bad writing or points that don't make sense because of how the story was already set up, doesn't mean everyone is saying they could write a better story, just pointing out how key points were badly done and how if done differently would make more sense in the context of what was already established. So when you criticize "fanfiction" realize that these companies are creating essentially that, because they aren't using their own original ideas, they are taking from established properties and writing their own "fanfiction" about them.

[sarahtasher]

Essentially both Disney and D&D are creating fanfiction for these already established properties. They aren't writing for a world they created, they are writing for an already established world and trying to write a story that would make sense in those universes. Criticizing bad writing or points that don't make sense because of how the story was already set up, doesn't mean everyone is saying they could write a better story, just pointing out how key points were badly done and how if done differently would make more sense in the context of what was already established. So when you criticize "fanfiction" realize that these companies are creating essentially that, because they aren't using their own original ideas, they are taking from established properties and writing their own "fanfiction" about them.

Except that they own it. Therefore, it's THEIR production and THEIR money they pour into movies, comics, books.

[Every Pwny]

Except that they own it. Therefore, it's THEIR production and THEIR money they pour into movies, comics, books.

Yes, that is also irrelevant, if they aren't the original creators they are essentially creating fanfiction about that property. Spending money on the license is fine, it doesn't mean they will create a great or even okay product with it, and it doesn't mean they won't mess up a lot of already established rules because those thing might make it less marketable. If you think just because a corporation buys the license to merchandise and sell a product to consumers that it's a product free from criticism, you are the kind of person I'm talking about where you want to just shut off your brain to enjoy something.

[Mehrunes]

Yup. D&D are on track to outdoing Mass Effect 3 in the "disappointing endings" department. Last week's episode was mindbogglingly bad. And they only have two episodes left to make up for it.

Well, that depends by what you define as ending in this context. If we're talking about just the bit with the Catalyst, GoT is yet to reach its final minutes so we can't compare them yet. But, changing perspective to GoT, if we looked at the entire 8th season as the ending of GoT, then the last arc of ME3 already wins here, even with Catalyst dragging it down.

Critiquing literature rarely involves writing fanfiction. I do think it's highly disrespectful to take a work of art and say "not only do I think that x is bad for y reasons, I also think that my idea would fit the piece of art better". It pretty much comes down to this.

Except when you explain the Y reasons sufficiently enough, you automatically paint at least a general picture of what would make more sense instead.

Like people getting up in arms about "there not being gravity in space, HOW COULD THE BOMBS DROP?!?!" in a movie about magical space wizards with laser swords?

Basically that..also "how could she sneak past the huge undead army in a field of snow..."

"It's about magical space wizards" isn't a defense. All universes have their internal rules. Just because there are magical space wizards in Star Wars doesn't mean gravity doesn't work in it. We see it working quite often. And the very episode of GoT in question showed how the wights can hear even something as quiet as a drop of blood falling on the ground. A setting being either fantasy or science-fiction doesn't mean it's immune to being subjected to suspension of disbelief not is it carte blanche to write whatever is necessary for the plot to work without paying attention to its internal rules, even if every single character is an undead space wizard.