"Layering", new technology replacing "sharding" - Only for the 1st couple weeks

[Kathranis]

It's actually sort of like pre-merging realms. You'll get a few realms divided into "layers" and then after the initial player rush, when numbers level out, they'll merge the layers back into a single realm.

[Xykotic]

Glad its only phase 1. Though I was hoping for 1-2 weeks of sharding. Anything more isn't necessary. People will have scattered according to how much they can play and it should be fine if the pop caps are 3-4k range.

[oplawlz]

So for the first couple of weeks you'd rather wait for hours in a queue and when you login, have lags and crashes instead of just logging in and playing the game, where you're also always going to see the same people?

Queues for a while during primetime on overpopulated servers? Yeah I'm ok with that. There would be no additional lag or crashing if the population caps were set correctly.
The point is that vanilla gameplay systems strongly encourage you to group with other people, especially during leveling. I have several friends who I still talk to today that I met and randomly grouped with in vanilla and BC to tackle a particularly challenging quest or elite mob. If those people had been on different "layers" because baby needs to log into WoW RIGHT NOW i would have missed out on those formative gaming relationships.

[RobertMugabe]

Queues for a while during primetime on overpopulated servers? Yeah I'm ok with that. There would be no additional lag or crashing if the population caps were set correctly.

The point is that vanilla gameplay systems strongly encourage you to group with other people, especially during leveling. I have several friends who I still talk to today that I met and randomly grouped with in vanilla and BC to tackle a particularly challenging quest or elite mob. If those people had been on different "layers" because baby needs to log into WoW RIGHT NOW i would have missed out on those formative gaming relationships.

But layering actually does encourage you to group up with other people?!?! Like srsly I don't understand your logic here. On a layer you will still be grouped with hundreds (if not thousands) of concurrent players, all players that have chosen the same realm and they will always be on the same layer as you are (until the layers get removed).

Basically what you're suggesting is that Blizzard should just add many many realms with queues, which will just result in the community being actually MORE spread out

It's not the same as sharding and LFD/LFR, where you're being temporarily grouped with people from all kinds of realms that you'll never see again.

[oplawlz]

But layering actually does encourage you to group up with other people?!?! Like srsly I don't understand your logic here. On a layer you will still be grouped with hundreds (if not thousands) of concurrent players, all players that have chosen the same realm and they will always be on the same layer as you are (until the layers get removed).

Basically what you're suggesting is that Blizzard should just add many many realms with queues, which will just result in the community being actually MORE spread out

It's not the same as sharding and LFD/LFR, where you're being temporarily grouped with people from all kinds of realms that you'll never see again.

My point is that you're never meeting those people to group with them. Yes groups are in the same layer and that's great, but you cant group with people you don't know yet. Compound that issue with the fact that portions of the layer are taken up with people that are already grouped and aren't likely to add another random to their questing with friends scenario and yeah, it's just not great (in my opinion). I totally recognize that it's a tradeoff and what's more important to me isn't necessarily what's more important to you or anyone else.

[RobertMugabe]

My point is that you're never meeting those people to group with them. Yes groups are in the same layer and that's great, but you cant group with people you don't know yet. Compound that issue with the fact that portions of the layer are taken up with people that are already grouped and aren't likely to add another random to their questing with friends scenario and yeah, it's just not great (in my opinion). I totally recognize that it's a tradeoff and what's more important to me isn't necessarily what's more important to you or anyone else.

But the same issue will exist if you just have more realms (you'll never ever be able to meet with people from other realms), except that with layering you'll eventually be merged together anyways

[Fascinate]

If you guys aren't aware a ton of games have been operating with this functionality for years, SWTOR being the best example i can come up with off the top of my head. You can select a world with a dropdown on your map and it has a cooldown which gets longer that more times you do it, im not sure if that will be possible in classic but this is such a better option than what they had proposed last year at blizzcon.

Seeing people disappear off your screen on classic was THE biggest worry and this tech fixes that, lets all get along and be happy about this announcement

[Lothaeryn]

Sounds kinda crap if youre not sharded with friends, like gee good i can see random warrior #23249 2-3x but not my friends, unless i group with em.

Or if you're stuck in a PvP layer that is a 70/30+ split on faction imbalance. Just thinking about being outnumbered and stuck on a layer like that just sucks.

Not to mention it will cause even more imbalance as players try to force migrate to better layers for their faction.

[RobertMugabe]

Or if you're stuck in a PvP layer that is a 70/30+ split on faction imbalance. Just thinking about being outnumbered and stuck on a layer like that just sucks.

Not to mention it will cause even more imbalance as players try to force migrate to better layers for their faction.

I don't see the issue here. Faction imbalance was a common thing in vanilla. Layering isn't making it better or worse.

[Lothaeryn]

I don't see the issue here. Faction imbalance was a common thing in vanilla. Layering isn't making it better or worse.

Nowhere near as bad as it is now, and wasn't cheap to change either. Faction balance was roughly in the 40/60 bracket across most servers save for a minor amount of outliers.

The floodgates opened when faction transfers started, before that you still had a static population across each faction just server transferring with minimal affect on population balance.

[Khaza-R]

Or if you're stuck in a PvP layer that is a 70/30+ split on faction imbalance. Just thinking about being outnumbered and stuck on a layer like that just sucks.

Not to mention it will cause even more imbalance as players try to force migrate to better layers for their faction.

I doubt there's going to be a way to tell the faction split per layer. And either way, the layers are only lasting a couple of weeks or up to a month. They really only exist to stop server queues and 300 people competing for the same mob

[Lothaeryn]

I doubt there's going to be a way to tell the faction split per layer. And either way, the layers are only lasting a couple of weeks or up to a month. They really only exist to stop server queues and 300 people competing for the same mob

Trust me, on a PvP server, its very obvious when the faction split is imbalanced. Most of the time you won't be able to go anywhere unless you have a party ready to counter 6+ people. And if the layer system works as I think it does, it means if that pop isn't balanced across that layer, you will be stuck having trouble doing content in the world without a solid group. For at least weeks/months, that seems very counterproductive to the purpose of the system.

If you want an example, play Alliance on Korgath-US with warmode on, I wish you luck trying to do World Quests on that battlegroup.

[RobertMugabe]

Nowhere near as bad as it is now, and wasn't cheap to change either. Faction balance was roughly in the 40/60 bracket across most servers save for a minor amount of outliers.

The floodgates opened when faction transfers started, before that you still had a static population across each faction just server transferring with minimal affect on population balance.

Yeah but what does layering have to do with this? You've just explained how faction transfers have made realms even more unbalanced, but this has nothing to do with layering.

Again, I don't see how layering is an issue in this context

[Lothaeryn]

Yeah but what does layering have to do with this? You've just explained how faction transfers have made realms even more unbalanced, but this has nothing to do with layering.

Again, I don't see how layering is an issue in this context

If layering is going to lock in player populations for weeks/months at a time, it means the imbalance across that layer is locked in as well. Unless you can force migrate to another layer via friends/guilds. Eventually the system will create a larger imbalance as people force migrate to better faction pop splits in their favor, reducing the system into a heavily imbalanced split for weeks, if not months, on end.

The system needs to prevent this outcome, or else its a moot point in the long term health of faction balance.

EDIT: Now if it rotates and forced faction split to be even at every reset, it wont have this issue, unless as I stated, it can be circumvented by other means.

[Khaza-R]

Trust me, on a PvP server, its very obvious when the faction split is imbalanced. Most of the time you won't be able to go anywhere unless you have a party ready to counter 6+ people. And if the layer system works as I think it does, it means if that pop isn't balanced across that layer, you will be stuck having trouble doing content in the world without a solid group. For at least weeks/months, that seems very counterproductive to the purpose of the system.

If you want an example, play Alliance on Korgath-US with warmode on, I wish you luck trying to do World Quests on that battlegroup.

I think you're being a tad hyperbolic. I played Horde on a Alliance skewed realm in Vanilla. I never really grouped up other than for elite quests. And again, I don't see where you are getting that layers will last months. First they said up to a month and secondly they are being completely removed from the game by Phase 2.

As for the sharding example. I don't know what that is suppose to mean. Sharding + CRZ and layering are nothing alike.

[Kallisto]

and you will... if you all join a group at once, then leave the group, you will all still see eachother

seriously people, why the fuck is joining a group some impossible thing?

Did you not get the memo. No one wants to socialise anymore or join groups through their own choice. Everything has to be handed to them by Blizzard without any effort on their side put into it or have blizzard force them to do it. Even if said effort is basically /g "Hey, on a new character someone throw me an invite for 5s please?" and then click accept. That's just something optional and optional shouldn't be here.

[RobertMugabe]

If layering is going to lock in player populations for weeks/months at a time, it means the imbalance across that layer is locked in as well.

How is this different compared to just having a realm?

Unless you can force migrate to another layer via friends/guilds. Eventually the system will create a larger imbalance as people force migrate to better faction pop splits in their favor, reducing the system into a heavily imbalanced split for weeks, if not months, on end.

Your layer is permanent unless you join a group of someone from a different layer (who is on the same realm as you are). Once you leave this group you'll be back on your layer.

The system needs to prevent this outcome, or else its a moot point in the long term health of faction balance.

No it doesn't have to prevent that. Layering doesn't cause faction imbalance and it's purpose (by design) isn't to take care of it either. If there's faction imbalance then so be it, that's how it was in vanilla when you joined a realm.

EDIT: Now if it rotates and forced faction split to be even at every reset, it wont have this issue, unless as I stated, it can be circumvented by other means.

The point of layering is to keep players together and not just randomly mix them around to achieve faction balance (like sharding). This system was specifically introduced to prevent what you're suggesting.

[solarfallz]

Can someone explain to me how it is that the decision-makers at Blizzard can be THIS stupid?

Do IQ tests even measure this level of mental impairment? Negatives, maybe?

[RobertMugabe]

Can someone explain to me how it is that the decision-makers at Blizzard can be THIS stupid?

Do IQ tests even measure this level of mental impairment? Negatives, maybe?

Layering is a very reasonable solution to this issue. If you disagree then explain it.

Calling the devs stupid and retarded isn't an argument.

[clownpenisfart]

What fucking garbage. This isn't classic anymore.

The game should be a laggy shitfest on launch, just like in the old days.