SAT test to now include "adversity" score

[Breccia]

I really don't like playing percentages with background.s That's a grand way to fuck people over because you don't want to bring in more Hispanics than you have.

You'll find a lot of people agree. You'll find a lot of people saying "Look, the USA screwed over minorities for hundreds of years. You don't get to wave a magic wand and assume that all went away just because they can vote now." It's by no means a cut-and-dry system and it's a complex issue no matter what view you have.

Basically, nobody has the right answer. The SAT changes are just a different wrong answer. I expect some schools to adopt it, and others to say "No thanks, we still do this by hand because it's the most fair way to assess students."

[Dextroden]

You'll find a lot of people agree. You'll find a lot of people saying "Look, the USA screwed over minorities for hundreds of years. You don't get to wave a magic wand and assume that all went away just because they can vote now." It's by no means a cut-and-dry system and it's a complex issue no matter what view you have.

Basically, nobody has the right answer. The SAT changes are just a different wrong answer. I expect some schools to adopt it, and others to say "No thanks, we still do this by hand because it's the most fair way to assess students."

If people want to do it by race, they just need to own that they are technically discriminating. I'm sure the people who are from the second group don't particularly care as long as they can get people into college.

[Bodonius]

I'm not sure I understand the argument.

Ok I'm saying that for effect. I do understand the argument. You're basically saying that unless something is perfect then it's not fit for purpose and we should just abandon the effort entirely which is patently fucking ridiculous. Also how did we get from the OT to some sidebar about false rape allegations? Women actually do get raped also, and their rapists lie about it. Like I'll agree with you to the extent that the judicial system could always be improved, but I have no idea how that impacts on the topic at hand at all. #notallmen, whatever makes you happy dude. #notallrapedwomen also, not as catchy though.

#notallmuslim
To have races as a thing, it racist.
How the f do you know that that asian grew up nice, how do you know that black grew up poor. Its just stupid, if they want a way to make things even it should be class and parents income.

[Elkfingers]

#notallmuslim
To have races as a thing, it racist.
How the f do you know that that asian grew up nice, how do you know that black grew up poor. Its just stupid, if they want a way to make things even it should be class and parents income.

Ok cool, that has literally no connection whatsoever to anything I said. I'm gonna leave you to keep arguing with this imaginary dude who says things that literally aren't contained anywhere in the posts you're quoting.

[Bodonius]

Ok, then i misunderstood you completly

[Laerrus]

So if you happen to be a poor Asian or White kid with middle to high percentile scores, you are pretty much fucked since Black and Latino kids of the same testing range will always have a higher adversity score?

This is some bullshit.

[Bodonius]

So if you happen to be a poor Asian or White kid with middle to high percentile scores, you are pretty much fucked since Black and Latino kids of the same testing range will always have a higher adversity score?

This is some bullshit.

Yes, pretty racist

[Dextroden]

So if you happen to be a poor Asian or White kid with middle to high percentile scores, you are pretty much fucked since Black and Latino kids of the same testing range will always have a higher adversity score?

This is some bullshit.

The system itself doesn't score on race, so it won't happen there. If it gets used for discrimination, it will be recruiters choosing to be discriminatory with that information.

[BeepBoo]

Yeah, no. There's more than two centuries of history explaining why "leaving it alone" doesn't solve the problem.

Or it could be all a myth and the best and brightest just happen to resemble
Yessir, no systemic bias here.

You're wrongfully attributing that. Plenty of asians are best and brightest as well. Just because Europe and a lot of asia had their shit together and built better, faster, stronger, more advanced societies and got a jump doesn't mean there's something inherently WRONG with those advantages. Before cultures started mingling, They were the most advanced. After cultures started mingling, lo and behold... they're still the most advanced. It's a cultural issue, and cultures are often times exclusive. Go figure.

So, to your point about "systemic bias" again, I don't care.

As usual, you see something and think "zomg travesty that needs to be fixed and someone else needs to fix it for me!" and I see "working as intended; casualties or people getting left behind is fine."

[Breccia]

So if you happen to be a poor Asian or White kid with middle to high percentile scores, you are pretty much fucked since Black and Latino kids of the same testing range will always have a higher adversity score?

The counterpoint I'll make is, those same children in poor and underprivileged areas who get those middle to high scores have proven they're more capable. That's not my opinion by the way, but what I think the idea of the adversity score is. Think of it as a weight class thing, or "in a tough conference".

Bucknell's NCAA team had a 21-12 season (12-3 at home). Two-to-one's not bad. Their record, purely by numbers, is better than Syracuse's 20-14 record (13-6 home).

Now March Madness fans out there: if Bucknell plays Syracuse, who wins?

Syracuse routinely faces Duke, Virginia, and UNC. For them to have a 20-14 record in that level of adversity says a lot more than Bucknell playing Army, Navy, and Boston U. Syracuse was an 8 seed this year. Bucknell didn't make it. Again. Colgate won the Patriot League and was still a 15 seed.

"Okay, but why Bucknell?"

Because 2005. Bucknell beat Kansas, getting the ESPY for Biggest Upset of the Year.

Anyhow, this isn't meant to be a perfect parallel. This is meant to be "it's not just the numbers that matter". You know how colleges are placed into the bracket by a team of experts, and not just numerically by their record, every March? That's the ideal situation for students, too. These SAT scores are just meant to make sure that people who have earned their shot get the recognition for it. Who makes it to "the dance" is not under their control.

It's not perfect. But I don't think it's bullshit, either. Syracuse is a good team. They deserved to play in 2019 more than Bucknell did, even with an objectively worse record.

[Dextroden]

Yikes how are conservatives going to be against this if they can't call it communism or use white identity politics?

I'd recommend they start making their constituents take advantage of it. It'll either end in

1. More educated voters, which fucks over conservatives.
2. A fight because white people benefitted from it, even though it has no race scale. Which is always fun.

[Zantos]

College "racial" profiling. I can't see how this could go wrong........

Didn't you know? They already do this. Literally racial profiling. Adjusting SAT scores based on the testers race to ensure they have a diverse student body. Some races would get boosted scores while others would be lowered because they had more of them. SAT is nothing but a joke now. Its supposed to be competitive but they don't care unless you hit the right boxes for what they need at the time.

All this doe is punish those who are hard working and smart since they now know they have to work harder then ever before to get that spot. I am also certain this will completely demoralize some as they will no longer view hard work as worth it since it wont help them get into a school.

[Bodonius]

Of cause its racist.

[Eldar45]

Didn't you know? They already do this. Literally racial profiling. Adjusting SAT scores based on the testers race to ensure they have a diverse student body. Some races would get boosted scores while others would be lowered because they had more of them. SAT is nothing but a joke now. Its supposed to be competitive but they don't care unless you hit the right boxes for what they need at the time.

All this doe is punish those who are hard working and smart since they now know they have to work harder then ever before to get that spot. I am also certain this will completely demoralize some as they will no longer view hard work as worth it since it wont help them get into a school.

What's worse is that it pushes students into colleges they shouldn't be able to get into. You have a solid B+ student who would do very well getting into a state university who is all of a sudden accepted into an Ivy League school because of his/her skin color. Then when they are in that school they don't do very well because they don't have the mental ability that other Ivy Leaguers do and drop out.


In other words: this isn't helping minorities, it is hurting them.

[Elegiac]

You're wrongfully attributing that. Plenty of asians are best and brightest as well. Just because Europe and a lot of asia had their shit together and built better, faster, stronger, more advanced societies and got a jump doesn't mean there's something inherently WRONG with those advantages. Before cultures started mingling, They were the most advanced. After cultures started mingling, lo and behold... they're still the most advanced. It's a cultural issue, and cultures are often times exclusive. Go figure.

So, to your point about "systemic bias" again, I don't care.

As usual, you see something and think "zomg travesty that needs to be fixed and someone else needs to fix it for me!" and I see "working as intended; casualties or people getting left behind is fine."

Yes, as we know blatant sociopathy is totally a good foundation for a harmonious society. /s

Also, more power to you for choosing not to be subtle about seeing Europeans and Asians as superior.

- - - Updated - - -

What's worse is that it pushes students into colleges they shouldn't be able to get into. You have a solid B+ student who would do very well getting into a state university who is all of a sudden accepted into an Ivy League school because of his/her skin color. Then when they are in that school they don't do very well because they don't have the mental ability that other Ivy Leaguers do and drop out.

[Citation Needed]

I'd also like to see exactly how impactful this is on outcomes versus, say, legacy admissions.

[BeepBoo]

Also, more power to you for choosing not to be subtle about seeing Europeans and Asians as superior.

Those two sections of the globe had bigger societies with more technological advancements than other places in the world at the time before we all became buddy buddy. That's just a fact. I don't think that means those people individually innately have more potential. They simply just DID more than others to that point and now descendants of that have been reaping that head start since. I don't see anything wrong with that. My personal hope is to give my descendants as big a leap over everyone else so they can enjoy a quality of life I never had.

[Appelgren]

The world is going to shit...

[Elegiac]

Those two sections of the globe had bigger societies with more technological advancements than other places in the world at the time before we all became buddy buddy. That's just a fact. I don't think that means those people individually innately have more potential. They simply just DID more than others to that point

Hate to tell you this, but most of the advantages Europeans enjoy today originated outside of Europe. Might wanna give Jared Diamond a read sometime.

and now descendants of that have been reaping that head start since. I don't see anything wrong with that. My personal hope is to give my descendants as big a leap over everyone else so they can enjoy a quality of life I never had.

Not seeing anything wrong with it is understandable, because it's navel gazing. Check your privilege.

[petej0]

[Citation Needed]

I'd also like to see exactly how impactful this is on outcomes versus, say, legacy admissions.

its a concept called "Academic Mismatch" students who may have been given preference are discouraged because they cant keep up with the pace, the subject matter or struggle in general and flunk out. The Air Force Academy (amoung others) did a study on it by placing high ranking students into a class with low ranking students and noticed a drop in performance among the lower ranked students.

[Martymark]

"You're pretty smart...for a Black person." - College SAT Board

The SAT Board seems like a bunch of extreme racists to me, but what do I know, I don't have the "smart" skin color.