How come BfA is worse than Legion?

[matrix123mko]

The story is the problem. They forced us faction war and another Horde civil war. It would be thousand times more interesting if they used Genn or Jaina as the one who starts the war. Then Alliance could get some split too. Also, I strongly believe that N'zoth with south sea would better than another total war.

[Laqweeta]

The point about the weapon is a bit silly though. Take WotLK, gearscore not over 6000? Guild declined.

Also, guilds checked DPS parses from warcraft logs, not specifically BiS legendaries, so long as you were in a bracket the guild deems acceptable you're pretty much in.

An opinion is an opinion though, not really saying you're wrong, just hyperbole.

Oh I remember getting into a ICC/ToC raiding guild at 5k GS.

Get full T9 from heroics, and a few 232 pieces from ICC 5 mans and you’re golden.

[kaminaris]

Aren’t you the guy that told me I was incorrect a few pages ago and then contradicted yourself twice in the same post? You said azerite gear was the best thing since MoP and then said azerite gear is garbage in the exact same post.

No thats your problem with reading comprehension. Azerite gear =/= Azerite. Azerite gear is brilliant idea, Azerite is garbage idea.

Show us. /10c

Inspect me, got my chars linked on raider io, you will be looking for these:


PS. Done all mage towers with 36 specs.

[niztheundead87]

if you believe this you are naive , let me remind you some stuf about legion :

the announcement of legendaries alone brought a raging inferno on the forums , stuff like amg walfare legos etc, ppl getting the wrong lego was a thing and some specs were lacking without the bis one .i remember people raging on and on about it.some of those effects were transfered to azerite armor.

then we get ap, ap in legion launch was so slow not only it was annoying it made playing alts and other specs almost to non existent .if you used ap on another weapon you would be behind others that focused on only one weapon.up to the patch after tos there was no way to think of trying other specs.

m+: people were literally screaming that m+ was a breeze and they asked for harder dungeons.

[Icechaosss]

They took away 3 spec specific systems (artifacts, legendaries and tier sets) and replaced them with azerite. Azerite turned out to be a much worse version of artifacts progression wise. Every new season meant you lost a few tiers of azerite that you had already grinded for and gaining a higher ilvl piece also meant you’d lose a tier or two. Then they implemented the GCD changes which slowed down classes a little bit. On top of all that they took baseline artifact abilities and nerfed them while adding them in as talents which meant we actually lost 1 talent rather than gain anything. Overall this just led to class design being extremely bland compared to legion.

Then they added two new forms of content which were islands and warfronts. Islands are basically instanced world quests which is boring and warfronts are so easy they’re afkable. Unfortunately they also put the AP grind primarily behind islands as opposed to dungeons like in legion.

So let’s go over that:

1. Removed tier sets, artifacts and legendaries.

2. Added azerite armor. Artifact weapons had more passive/actives than all 3 slots of azerite combined.

3. Removed talents in order to put previously baseline artifact abilities in the talent rows.

4. Implemented the GCD changes.

5. Decided not to focus on class design. They stated in multiple interviews that class design will not be a main focus in BfA.

Due to all of that class design is in a really bad state. Some classes feel very incoherent, some feel extremely slow, some are alright, etc. Legion class design was horrible as well until you got your artifact and decent legendaries, in BfA it’s always horrible as there’s nothing like artifacts/legendaries to fill the gaps in rotations and such.

The writing is also really bad. Legions writing was at least mostly coherent and made enough sense while BFAs writing is so damn bad that the writers have to keep telling the players what’s happening with the plot IE “sylvanas isn’t garrosh 2.0”, “tyrande already got her revenge”, etc.

Ding ding ding.

Dude hit every point.

The zones and the world itself, imo, is amazing. The music, art etc.

The game itself, however, isn't.

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No thats your problem with reading comprehension. Azerite gear =/= Azerite. Azerite gear is brilliant idea, Azerite is garbage idea.


Inspect me, got my chars linked on raider io, you will be looking for these:


PS. Done all mage towers with 36 specs.

I personally disagree with Azerite gearing being great idea. I found it much more fun with tier sets, or even finding a way to encompass both tier sets and Azerite gear into one thing (Though that sounds like a shitshow).

[Onikaroshi]

They were the best versions of legendaries, because : 1) they were accessible to every player who wanted to put in the effort, even on LFR. The legendaries before them were lucky drops and required not only personal, but also raid team effort. Not that this is bad, it was a game designer decision to make those items VERY RARE and obtainable only in raid settings. However, you had to be personally liked by the raid-loot handlers to get one, if the raid leader wasn't getting it first.

2) they were part of the expansion/character story. Lore/Story wise, only the Black Prince champion and the Dreanor Force Commander got those items, so in that setting and only, they were "rare".

3) they were clearly scaling and determined rewards. You knew what you were getting in the start, you knew the effort you had to do to empower the items, yu knew how and when you'd get the empowered item. There was no RNG involved (apart from the raid drops, but it was definitely not bad). All that accounted for max level character progression (story wise, see 2, and item wise), without much dependance on team effort. Plus, they required a certain level of personal player mastery (kinda like mage towers in Legion)

4) The items in their final form were giving you a super power ability, just like any legendary would do. And it was your own achievements and efforts who granted that to your character, usalble both in raid AND solo play.

On the other hand, "LEGIONdaries" were just glyphs/talents assigned into random drop items. Also, their number was excessive to be assigned the term "LEGENDARY".
We're arguing opinions here, but i'd love to see you present any counter argument why older than MoP legendaries or legiondaries werebetter tham MoP/WoD ones.

Because they were generic and boring, I found a great many of the legion legendaries fun and the prior legendaries required a lot of effort and were more powerful then mop and beyond.

If the mop/wod legendaries had given you a class specific legendary at the end that did different things depending on spec I'd give it to them, but they didn't. WoD was the worst, the rings barely did anything fun, they weren't even as flashy as the MoP ones, and in a raid environment only one person of each role even got to play with them.

Don't forget the healing cape in MoP was entirely useless for Disc.

Legion ones were probably the best overall because many of them changed your rotation or altered your class significantly.

[Battlebeard]

???????????
Why would you ignore tier sets when they brought a fresh system to a class and were pretty much the biggest incentive to raid?
I'm very confused.

Even if your specific legendaries were something like shoulders and chest, you always had enough slots to get 4set.

I mean, having tier sets with 2set and 4set bonus made those gears too mandatory to have. Now, any lets say 400ilvl legs work, no need to target specific tier legs. I know you could chose what 4 pieces, but to even have 2 pieces mandatory gear was bad. There is a BiS list ofc, but having lets say Crit/Versa pants when the best gear is Master/Haste, is not THAT big a deal. But to have non tier set vs tier set bonuses, was HUGE.

Removal of tier sets was a great thing, now it doesn't matter as much which gear you have.

[Razzako]

Oh I remember getting into a ICC/ToC raiding guild at 5k GS.

Get full T9 from heroics, and a few 232 pieces from ICC 5 mans and you’re golden.

Yeah, was just being equally hyperbole lol.

[RobertMugabe]

Blizzard tried to replace the artifact weapons (incl. class halls and their stories), crucible, legendaries and tier sets with azerite armor alone and they totally failed at that. This has also mostly killed raiding for most players, because you can way easier and faster get better gear by doing other content (this was already somewhat true in Legion and they just made it way worse). Heroic raids for example are too difficult or time consuming for the stuff that they award.

Island expeditions and warfronts are just bad and those are the type of content where blizzard most likely spend most of the development time.

Also professions seem to be completely pointless right now. Again they were already pretty bad in Legion and they just made them even worse.

Basically in most ways BfA just feels like a shittier Legion

[Nyel]

Easy, because it's Legion 0.5 and not Legion 2.0.

[Taeldorian]

No thats your problem with reading comprehension. Azerite gear =/= Azerite. Azerite gear is brilliant idea, Azerite is garbage idea.


Inspect me, got my chars linked on raider io, you will be looking for these:


PS. Done all mage towers with 36 specs.

So you’re saying azerite gear is good but the AP system isn’t? I might agree once we get to 8.2 and we actually get the full azerite gear system we were shown at blizzcon but I definitely disagree with azerite gear being good from 8.0-8.1.

[Fabinas]

Inspect me, got my chars linked on raider io, you will be looking for these:
PS. Done all mage towers with 36 specs.

No, i dared Felplague to do for the rest specs what she did with the demo artifact. Since you were kind to step in for her, i now expect YOU to do the same comparison she did for the rest 35 specs. Your appeal to authority argument won't hold. And idgaf if you have all mage towers completed, it's irrelevant.

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Because they were generic and boring, I found a great many of the legion legendaries fun and the prior legendaries required a lot of effort and were more powerful then mop and beyond.

If the mop/wod legendaries had given you a class specific legendary at the end that did different things depending on spec I'd give it to them, but they didn't. WoD was the worst, the rings barely did anything fun, they weren't even as flashy as the MoP ones, and in a raid environment only one person of each role even got to play with them.

Don't forget the healing cape in MoP was entirely useless for Disc.

Legion ones were probably the best overall because many of them changed your rotation or altered your class significantly.

Well, you found them boring, i found them a very nice goal to meet till the end of expansion. Kinda like AP. Max lvl character progression.

Also, the Legiondaries didn't need to be orange items. Too many, too random. You cannot compare them to ANY legendary item before Legion, because they were glyphs/talents/tier bonuses on items. Nothing more. The term "legendary" for them is just fan service and shouldn't have been given to those items.

[Steelangel]

There's a theory that they have two teams working on expansions and the second team is really fucking bad.

This team did Warlords of Draenor, skipped Legion and did BfA.

It would make sense. WoD's dungeons were shitfests of badly-designed trash mechanics and boss battles that were slogs. Legion's dungeons were fun. BfA's dungeons are shitfests of badly-designed trash mechanics and boss battles that are slogs.

[Eggroll]

They took the worst of Legion AND MoP and mashed it together in one giant pile of shit.

[Demsi]

BFA was horribly rushed, the azerite system was a good example of that, if a system needs to be reworked several times it's safe to say not a lot of thought was put into it

[Eggroll]

BFA was horribly rushed, the azerite system was a good example of that, if a system needs to be reworked several times it's safe to say not a lot of thought was put into it

Like in almost everything in BfA. Ion even blatantly admitted that he gives a fuck about actual quality. He put it this way: "At some point quantity is quality". Typical laywer talk. Rofl.

[Luxeley]

You're 100% right BFA is worse than WOD. As far as story goes - things became unhinged in late Legion/ early BFA - jumping the shark so to speak. That's all fine and good, if you really really really love the game you give it a pass. The real problem with the lore is a lack of focus and two storylines, it just doesn't work horde and alliance fighting each other and setting up Queen Azshara in the process. Lacks focus and therefore direction. The class design is non-existent. Losing Artifacts and Legendaries left a gaping hole and Az armor failed to fill in the gap. Mythic plus was fun because it was new, now it's sort of in a lull cause they've done nothing to improve the system. Poor class design also makes Mythic plus a lot less smooth and fluid. In the end I do believe BFA will not be known as the worst xpac because there is nothing but upside with regard to the patch content. And, I do believe the next xpac will deliver the "wow" effect in full.

[Taeldorian]

Honestly there’s some other things I forgot to mention as well. Over the past few years WoW has lost a lot of RPG elements in the name of “QoL”. Some were alright changes but some just removed things for the sake of removing them. Tier set tokens that you hand in to vendors for gear, currency that you build up and then hand in for gear have been replaced with these instant gratification mindless systems such as warfronts, islands, etc. Now we have this RNG fiesta with titanforging and random gem sockets along with mindless content like warfronts that reward people for nothing and it just isn’t healthy for the game. It creates this mindset of “nobody should have better gear than me!!!! I pay for the game so give everyone an equal chance!” and this hurts the game too.

I have hopes that they’ll improve the game. Replace this RNG fiesta with deterministic systems. I’ll even take valor points again over what we have. Vendors were a nice touch of RPG imo, the feeling of going to a vendor to finally purchase this piece of gear you’ve been working towards was great. Either way, there’s always classic now if this RNG fiesta instant gratification mindset doesn’t leave retail or at the very least not encompass the whole end game.

[Shakana]

I felt so comfy in Legion, the zones, the music, the quests, the class hubs, world quests, artifact had good fun skills, Demon Hunters, mythic+ dungeons were fun, Illidan and cool story stuff to this uninteresting bland lore killer expansion.

I can't believe this, it is actually worse than WoD. I can't find joy in this pile of crap. It's not even Warcraft anymore, at least prev expansions felt Warcraftish. This is just some really bad game.

I felt really comfy too <3

[Fenzha]

I have said this from the start of the expansion. For the first month or so it was good but after you see past the shiny newness it drops off.

After that i had lvld a few characters, got sick of dungeons/WQs and was done with the legendary/TF systems.
I rate Legion as my worst expansion to date. It's the only expansion I've chosen to take breaks from and i've done it twice in Legion.

Oh 2 years ago me, how little you knew. To think i've gone from breaks to straight up quitting.

Class design and global cooldown in BFA killed what little gameplay was left.