What do you think of the Dresden Bombing during WWII?

[Iambackagain666]

Talk about military targets or not, Arthur "Bomber" Harris said himself, that the reason for the bombing, and the bombing in general of the german countryside, was to break the moral of german people, not to cripple german military production.

It was the same reason the germans did the blitz. The thing is that it was proved time and time again, that bombing of the civilian population did not really have an effect, which is why the Allied Forces actually stopped doing bombing civilian targets once during the war, only for Arthur Harris to push for it again later in the war.

War is indeed hell, but very few people saw the idea of bombing the civilians as a nessary evil of war. I think it is very justified to critique the Dresden Bombing, just like it is valid to critique the Raping of Nanjing.

They was dropping bombs giving them time to hide just like any other city under bombardment.

The rape of Nanking was soldiers running amok raping and killing anything they saw fit the civilian population couldnt hide cause the soldiers was able to find them.

This is not a good comparison.

[Flurryfang]

They was dropping bombs giving them time to hide just like any other city under bombardment.

The rape of Nanking was soldiers running amok raping and killing anything they saw fit the civilian population couldnt hide cause the soldiers was able to find them.

This is not a good comparison.

Dropping bombs is really not a good way to signal people to hide xD Alot, and i mean ALOT, of people died from the bombing of germany. There is no way to hide that fact, no matter how much you say, that they gave people the chance to flee, especially when some cities in germany were completly destroyed to the last building. Not many places left to hide really.

It is still the military action ordered by high command, which was followed by pure destruction. Just like you can't blame the pilots, you can't blame the soldiers. You can though blame the people higher up in the military hierarchy, just like you can blame Arthur Harris for his military plan of civilian bombings.

So i agree its not a complete comparison, but a valid one none the less.

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All cities were military targets in WWII. There was certainly a personal element to Dresden's bombing, but it didn't diminish the military value. A total war is going to be filled with horrific acts.

When you say it like that, you make it sound like people had abandoned morals and just killed whoever they saw as enemies. Which is completly false, as everybody from the british to the germans and even the russians used time to evaluate what was right and what was wrong, including what targets to hit and which cities to attack. Civilians were not up for free hunting at any point in the war, and when they were killed on mass, it was often on purpose against the current moral of the time.

[Iambackagain666]

Dropping bombs is really not a good way to signal people to hide xD Alot, and i mean ALOT, of people died from the bombing of germany. There is no way to hide that fact, no matter how much you say, that they gave people the chance to flee, especially when some cities in germany were completly destroyed to the last building. Not many places left to hide really.

It is still the military action ordered by high command, which was followed by pure destruction. Just like you can't blame the pilots, you can't blame the soldiers. You can though blame the people higher up in the military hierarchy, just like you can blame Arthur Harris for his military plan of civilian bombings.

So i agree its not a complete comparison, but a valid one none the less.

You know the Soviets sank the Wilhelm Gustloff a hospital ship back in 1945?

Its the highest loss of life at sea ever recorded at nearly 10 thousand people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Wilhelm_Gustloff

Nobody even knows that happened cause its just another causality of war just like Dresden.

[Flurryfang]

You know the Soviets sank the Wilhelm Gustloff a hospital ship back in 1945?

Its the highest loss of life at sea ever recorded at nearly 10 thousand people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Wilhelm_Gustloff

Nobody even knows that happened cause its just another causality of war just like Dresden.

Again, just saying something bad happend during the war, does not justify all the others.

Several civilian convoys of france civilians was also bombed by the allies during the war, because they looked like military truck convoys in the nights. There is a big difference between killing civilans based upon suspicion of them being military and then deliberatly killing civilians for no other reason.

[Irian]

It was bad but like others have said, war is hell. Shit sucks, emotions may have been involved or faulty information or it may have been an act to demoralize, I don't know enough about it to say what the motives are but it's almost an inevitability when you get into a war that innocent people are going to die.
To look at it from another perspective, mandatory drafts mean that war claimed the lives of countless more unwilling combatants than numbers can even tally.

I don't really blame people for defacing monuments in honor of these figures. I wouldn't personally do it but I can see why the face of someone likely response for the death of thousands may not be something you want to see on a regular basis.

To put this in another light, I'm glad to see people properly blaming the ones responsible and not the nation as a whole.

[Kellhound]

Smart bombs kills civilians pretty good. Destroying hospitals and kill innocent ppl. Also shells with uranium "helps" ppl in Iraq hardly. And now US develops "tactical nuclear weapon". Do you really think something changed since ww2? Some countries still dont care about other countries. And eradicate them just because. Because they are stronger. And they need recources. Good reason to kill millions of ppl.

Depleted uranium is a very effective kinetic anti-armor penetrator, and it is not an illegal munition. The US has had tactical nuclear weapons for many decades.

[tankbug]

As General Sherman best put it when he responded to critics about his destructive march across the South in the US Civil war, " War is hell and there is no way to refine it."

Well, I don't agree with that. We have the Geneva convention and treaties to make sure that you don't cause unnecessary destruction and suffering to people in times of war.

Taking out enemy artillery? Ok.
Taking out a school to make sure the enemies can't get fresh conscripts. Not ok.

[Laerrus]

A necessary evil, much like the Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombs. You heard that right. If I were in President Truman's shoes I would have also made that difficult call, knowing how many innocents would die. Better a couple hundred thousand now, versus millions in the future.

War isn't fair.

You better learn to play dirty if you don't want to lose.

[Toxuvox]

it was pretty different bombing. German bombed Britain to destroy facilities. Alliance bombed drezden to annihilate as much ppl as posible. They used special type of bombs to burn oxygen so most ppl has been suffocated. This trip was not about destoying military force bacause that was about like 2-3 month before win. That wasnt tactical move. That was revenge and henocide at weak opponent who already lost. The opponent who had keep alliance in fear when it was at full power. That was pathetic bloody revenge that was targeted to kill non military ppl as much as possible. And they did that. Of course nazi did many horrible things during war. But with this action British simply show they are pretty same. And kill thouthands innocent ppl isnt a problem if they want "to demonstrate their power". Thousands of women and children died but who care?

This is mostly untrue. There were no "special type of bombs used to burn oxygen so most ppl has been suffocated". There were two types of bomb used....high explosives relying on detonation to destroy, and incendiaries relying on combustion to destroy. There was no weapon in use at the time, nor do I think any exists even today, that could burn enough oxygen with sufficient speed to have suffocation being a main means of death. Dresden was specifically selected as it was the last unbombed built up industrial city in Nazi Germany at the time, and was at that time a major fall back area for the Nazi war effort........

.........."Colonel Harold E. Cook, a US POW held in the Friedrichstadt marshaling yard the night before the attacks, later said that "I saw with my own eyes that Dresden was an armed camp: thousands of German troops, tanks and artillery and miles of freight cars loaded with supplies supporting and transporting German logistics towards the east to meet the Russians"." Taken from the Wiki article on the Dresden Bombing during World War II.

The main point in the bombing of Dresden was to deny and disrupt any support to repel the Russians advancing from their position roughly 70km east of Berlin. The planned bombings of Dresden, Leipzig, Chemnitz, and Berlin were seen as a means of dealing a death blow to the Nazi regime and ending the war in Europe, and were therefore completely tactical. Was there an element of revenge in there from the officials that planned to offensive? Possibly. However, to say "That was pathetic bloody revenge that was targeted to kill non military ppl as much as possible." is just plain wrong. Any way you slice it, Dresden was a legitimate military target, based on solid intelligence at the time, and eye witness reports after the fact.

[Kellhound]

That's the point I was making.

Reading comprehension isn't exactly a thing for you is it?

Also the US has had tactical nuclear weapons for over 50 years now. It's pretty much what they call a nuclear weapon that can be used in a targeted way rather than an indiscriminate one.

A tactical nuclear weapon is one that is intended for tactical targets. A 170kt B-61 Mod 3 tactical bomb is accurate as the 100kt W76 warheads of the Trident II SLBM.

[tankbug]

They was dropping bombs giving them time to hide just like any other city under bombardment.

The rape of Nanking was soldiers running amok raping and killing anything they saw fit the civilian population couldnt hide cause the soldiers was able to find them.

This is not a good comparison.

What do you mean? They gave people a chance to find cover or evacuate? I don't think that's accurate. Bombing civilian targets is hardly the humane option.

[Stelio Kontos]

You know the Soviets sank the Wilhelm Gustloff a hospital ship back in 1945?

Its the highest loss of life at sea ever recorded at nearly 10 thousand people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Wilhelm_Gustloff

Nobody even knows that happened cause its just another causality of war just like Dresden.

Or the Germans sinking the Soviet hospital ship Armenia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet...l_ship_Armenia

[Iambackagain666]

Or the Germans sinking the Soviet hospital ship Armenia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet...l_ship_Armenia

Exactly

Like i said casualties in a shitty horrible war.

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Where is that statue?

Its in England....

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What do you mean? They gave people a chance to find cover or evacuate? I don't think that's accurate. Bombing civilian targets is hardly the humane option.

Didnt the Germans have air raid sirens or bomb shelters?

No anderson shelters or anywhere to hide when the sirens went off?

Did you know about Hitlers Nero decree?

[josykay]

You know the Soviets sank the Wilhelm Gustloff a hospital ship back in 1945?

Its the highest loss of life at sea ever recorded at nearly 10 thousand people https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Wilhelm_Gustloff

Nobody even knows that happened cause its just another causality of war just like Dresden.

Do not paint your ship grey, and do not arm it. Really. They also had escorting warships, and soldiers in board, making her a legitime target. It did also not help, that the german heavy cruiser Admiral Hipper was nearby.

It was not a hospital ship, but floating barracks at that time.

[Iambackagain666]

Do not paint your ship grey, and do not arm it. Really. They also had escorting warships, and solides in board, making her a legitime target. It die also not help, that the german heavy cruiser Amiral Hipper was nearby.

It was not a hospital ship, but floating barracks at that time.

Hey at that time any ship was a target and the Germans brought upon themselves just like there cities and that was my point.

War is hell!

[arandomuser]

my favorite moment of ww2, the good guys beatin the hell out of the evil nazi scum

anyone who thinks it was bad is literally a nazi supporter

[ParanoiD84]

It was a total war what do you expect honestly.

[Ghostpanther]

Well, I don't agree with that. We have the Geneva convention and treaties to make sure that you don't cause unnecessary destruction and suffering to people in times of war.

Taking out enemy artillery? Ok.
Taking out a school to make sure the enemies can't get fresh conscripts. Not ok.

You can not fight a major war without some civilian casualties. Sure, the target should not be them specifically, as Sherman did not target the civilians, but the infrastructural parts of the war machine of the Confederates. Railway system, barns, where food and goods was stored for the soldiers, etc. With today's military technology, we can be more target specific, as we should be. But if WW3 was to break out, billions of people (mostly civilians) are going to die. That is the horrible truth of total war.

[Myr010]

I think the Japanese got it worse than us.

Yes the Japanese got bombed very badly, people generally forget about the firebombings that occurred there because of Nagasaki and Hiroshima

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/20...rgely-ignored/

[Easo]

Usually this comes out when some nazi apologist starts going "BUT ALLIES WERE BAD TOO".
Of fucking course it was horrible, but it also is way over blown and hardly compares to some other bombings. It was a total war, which is what people keep forgetting or pretend to forget. There basically are no civilians in total war - if you work in a factory, you are a target. Make clothes for soldiers - get bombed. Make food for them - get bombed.
No such thing as "city was not a military target".
A simple thing, really.