Can someone explain how the "community" is so much better than it was 14 years ago?

[Charge me Doctor]

I understand what you guys are saying but the consensus I'm hearing with Beta is that the community is so much "better" than it used to be. I just don't understand HOW it could be or what's leading people to think that. .

People mistake chatting during corpse runs/on the way to dungeon with good community. It's hardly better.

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How do I NEED to be more social to get things done in vanilla? I keep seeing this or something similar posted but it makes zero sense. Exactly what do I need to be more social to accomplish? Grouping for dungeons? I do that now without waiting an hour in trade chat. I even group for elite world quests. I already mentioned the guild thing, which I've done since I started playing.

So how is it different?

You need to be in a guild and be on good terms in said guild. To do that you have to be social.

[Mayia]

I think it's a pretty safe assumption that the majority of people that are playing now/will be playing in August have all done the Vanilla thing before. I can't help but remember how much complaining there used to be, especially on the bnet forums, about how awful the community actually was. All of the Barrens chat stuff, trade channel spamming and anal jokes, smack talking in general pretty much everywhere, especially in pugs when things weren't going smoothly.

How are things going to be any different or friendlier or whatever than they were back then? I guess factoring in that most players have "grown up" since then, that's never seemed to stop anyone from being an ass on the internet when anonymity provides the opportunity. Rage quits, loot drama, potentially having your server 'reputation' damaged all seem inevitable.

Maybe I'm being pessimistic here but I get the whole nostalgia thing but I personally enjoy playing the game without being limited to only playing same-server population now. Outside of my guild members, why do I need another few thousand randoms to get things done anyway?

Okay let me break down the difference between BFA and Classic in terms of "the community"
Hi i'm 30 odd, if i see you dying to a mob in bfa i might help i'm more likely to help than hurt unless i've just had an encounter with an asshole.. then i might just leave you to die and giggle to myself, but most people will just leave you to die and don't care that you lost progress.

If you do that in Classic and start griefing people even just not being helpful you'll get a rep.. as an unhelpful sod, and when parties fill up by word of mouth the sods are lower on the list, almost next to the twats and assholes.
In Classic things are so much harder that you'll suffer just as much as everyone else to mobs dodging or parrying and it'll feel really bad, so when you do get a buff or some help it'll feel really great and over time it'll turn your cold heart warm again.

I was thinking if i was quick enough leveling when i take a break i might just sit in Westfall for my break and just offer help as its needed to players leveling in that hell hole, it'll be good to also give out some bags or low level weapons, and i mean i just thought of that a few hours ago and i haven't played wow in a while just been watching classic videos by streamers and i know it'd certainly be something i'd like if somebody helped me so doing it when i'm taking a break from leveling or w/e i'm doing will be much more effective and i think getting people that help in the starting zone will spread the feeling you should give people a hand when you see them.

So nothing has changed with the Community its still a bunch of Toxic twats and people avoiding those twats however because the game is harder its much nicer to give help in bfa most things are so easy they don't need help, but i'll still give out void scathels to those who need em, or mail a bag because its hard starting out.

So don't think about the community as much as you think about what you could do for others during classic, be a tailor make bags? alc make pots? black smith for weapon stones, some of the professions use the low level materials and you can make stuff with their own mats even.

[Maudib]

I went to Orgrimmar yesterday and before I even got out of the portal room my screen was drowning in anal jokes. So no, I don't miss the "adult humor" of old Barrens chat. It can die in the sewer where it belongs.

Just kids and adults with crude humor... how does that make it a bad community? If you want pure RPG chat, join an RP server maybe?

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Sure is less conveinient.

"Anyone wanna do quest x?"
"Sure, invite"
Community!

Having actually done it at the time, its literally no different than the api that was broken by Blizzard going into bfa.


yeah.. so you invite the random person nect to you for 10 seoncds to do the quest, or you compete with them. Still feels the same, only people cant fuck other people over today where they could then.
maybe this is what vanilla is for.. to make mages not shit?
10 days later... gold is not scarce and everyone has alts. This is a temporary state that only exists on new servers.

there are addons that can do all of the above. They will very likely use the current version of the api and thus be mostly even more featured than vanilla with a few notable exections.

are you saying that asking for a res in general chat encourages community spirit? I feel like thats what you're saying, but its so dumb i just have to double check.

how is any of this meaningful interaction? The standard response in all but the last is 'get a fucking addon' or 'ask google'.


As you run around doing your thing, you will often get buffs from passers by. If you are in trouble with mobs... and a person see's it? They will often join you to help keep you alive then mosey on along their merry way.


The game encourages good behavior... good communication... which in turn encourages friendships. After all.. WoW used to be an MMORPG... not the solo experience it is today.

None of this is meaningful community. None of this is where people make server-wide names for themselves one way or another. All of this is loss of conveiniance for the illusion of.. difficulty?[/QUOTE]

Every single thing you posted... EVERY single thing... is as anti-social as hell. If vanilla HAD people like you... that is the only segment of the community that was toxic. You do realize everything I stated was an opportunity to meet someone? Make a friend? Do a dungeon with? Group for group quests?

When you realize that YOU are the problem with WoW today... perhaps you can understand why WoW didn't need changed... but maybe you needed to.

You forget that server community means you are held responsible for your actions and treatment of others... it's not like today's WoW where you can almost be guaranteed of not seeing the same person twice.

[Bethrezen]

If you're anti-social, MMOs are probably not for you. Especially in a socially driven aspect MMO that Vanilla/Classic is vs the hyperbole chamber single player ARPG experience BFA/Retail has become.

[Tiwack]

It is what you choose to focus on/make of it, conflict seekers are out and forgotten while team players are remembered and family, like it's always been, the useless is ignored if not worth a quick laugh and the useful is kept to build a-new with if not compete.

[minkage]

People were definately as a whole more social, helpful and well mannered as chat in all zones was usually constantly flowing and alot of it were people asking questions and getting helpful responses. Trade chat was constantly full of profession sellers, LFG, guild recruiting, realm drama or just random topics.
Player reputation was huge in vanilla and being a well known troll/source of drama quickly got you put on everyones ignore list.
Assholes who ninja'ed or caused drama were put on blast via trade chat/realm forums and guild forums.

[Nobleshield]

3 with the most important once is enough

ADDONS

ADDONS

for none of this you need a group -> WoWhead

MUAHAHAHA...whatever you take that delusion of your should be treated!

You clearly havent played vanilla otherwise you wouldnt spill such bullshit...

This is exactly the sort of crap that will ruin Classic, and pretty much shows why people think the community is bad. This attitude does not belong in an MMORPG.

[ChampionChains]

I can't help but remember how much complaining there used to be, especially on the bnet forums, about how awful the community actually was. All of the Barrens chat stuff, trade channel spamming and anal jokes, smack talking in general pretty much everywhere, especially in pugs when things weren't going smoothly.

How are things going to be any different or friendlier or whatever than they were back then?

From my experience as someone who has played since about 6 months into vanilla, the things you listed as community problems "back then" are far more common now than they were in Vanilla. And your grasp of Barrens chat isn't how I remember it, Barrens chat was mostly light-hearted humor and chuck norris/saurfang jokes, not mean spirited trolling.

Cross realm, sharding, removal of battlegroups and lfr/lfd are what degraded the WoW community to the point it is at today. Prior to all of these things, your reputation on your server mattered and generally meant anyone who was an asshole was blacklisted by the community. People who ninja looted, trash talked and otherwise harassed players would get bad reputations and would find it a lot harder to get invited to raids, dungeons, and guilds. Your reputation mattered in a way that no longer exists since you get into dungeons with an anonymous queue system and raids can be run via group finder where your merit is decided by your item level and raider io as opposed to your reputation. There is no longer an incentive to behave like a decent human being in WoW and little to no punishment for being a piece of shit.

The WoW community's golden era is long gone and will never return.

[wargone]

It not. Gameing have become more Toxic then ever. i will go out on a leg and say AT BEST, the community will be as good as it was in vanila. back then your name was your reputation. I can recall my guild, a fairly serious raid guild. AQ 40, twin emporor, and we had a "blacklist" Ninjalooters, and such

[zorkuus]

Absolutely... but that's the only thing these guys can point at. Because, in reality... they know it was better.

We're not in the same boat, sorry. My point was about how the classic "community" wasn't as rosey as some seem to think.

[PenguinChan]

Without the conveniences that modern gaming gives, being a little social was required for Classic. This just led to people becoming more social and more interactive with one another... But, I will admit that a lot of people overplay how sociable it made individuals. You didn't need to talk about your day with anyone, you just needed to talk enough to get a group going and talk about mechanics and pulls if need be.

It's just the requirement of talking in chat that made the game way more often able to open up and get friendly with one another. It's amusing how much people overplay a little of chatter into this grand escapade of an amazing community.

This is exactly the sort of crap that will ruin Classic, and pretty much shows why people think the community is bad. This attitude does not belong in an MMORPG.

You can't have the good without the bad. People who ignored you and didn't help was just as common and those who were willing to help you. This is still the same today, and it's baffling that everyone thinks EVERYONE is friendly and willing to be apart of a community. This just isn't true.

[Maudib]

We're not in the same boat, sorry. My point was about how the classic "community" wasn't as rosey as some seem to think.

We don;t have to be in the same boat... as long as you're pushing mine int he right direction! Thanks dude! You re right. The community was way more than just chat... it was server reputation, it was in-world cooperation, it was the interacton of people for travel, crafting services, tips and guidance, and of course developing friendships and running dungeons together.

Much of what the modern player finds as tedium, is what harbored the need for a positive community.

[zorkuus]

We don;t have to be in the same boat... as long as you're pushing mine int he right direction! Thanks dude! You re right. The community was way more than just chat... it was server reputation, it was in-world cooperation, it was the interacton of people for travel, crafting services, tips and guidance, and of course developing friendships and running dungeons together.

Much of what the modern player finds as tedium, is what harbored the need for a positive community.

The thing is that most of the positive community stuff happened inside guilds. Outside it was everyone for themselves. And usually there were no repercussions for asshattery in the larger world. People didn't keep notepads of all the thousands of people on their server to remember all the bad players and the good players.

[Maudib]

The thing is that most of the positive community stuff happened inside guilds. Outside it was everyone for themselves. And usually there were no repercussions for asshattery in the larger world. People didn't keep notepads of all the thousands of people on their server to remember all the bad players and the good players.

My experience in TBC was just the opposite. Watching streams of Classic BETA shows the opposite as well. So I don't know...maybe your recollection is murky.

In either case... Classic ia agreta game because of the community reliance.. and many, many other thigns.

[zorkuus]

My experience in TBC was just the opposite. Watching streams of Classic BETA shows the opposite as well. So I don't know...maybe your recollection is murky.

In either case... Classic ia agreta game because of the community reliance.. and many, many other thigns.

Sorry but WoW has never had a good community. It was partly an illusion created from being "forced" to group up. But that in itself didn't make people behave well.

Look for games like GW2 or FFXIV for example if you want to see what a good community actually looks like.

[Maudib]

Sorry but WoW has never had a good community. It was partly an illusion created from being "forced" to group up. But that in itself didn't make people behave well.

Look for games like GW2 or FFXIV for example if you want to see what a good community actually looks like.

I experienced it differently. It's as simple as that. If you didn't then that's too bad... you missed out onm what makes this game amazing. No waonder so many people are dissatisfied with it.

[Delekii]

Every single thing you posted... EVERY single thing... is as anti-social as hell. If vanilla HAD people like you... that is the only segment of the community that was toxic. You do realize everything I stated was an opportunity to meet someone? Make a friend? Do a dungeon with? Group for group quests?

When you realize that YOU are the problem with WoW today... perhaps you can understand why WoW didn't need changed... but maybe you needed to.

You forget that server community means you are held responsible for your actions and treatment of others... it's not like today's WoW where you can almost be guaranteed of not seeing the same person twice.

Vanilla _did_ have people "like me". Almost exclusively. Just like today, very few people liked lazy cunts who can't find information for themselves. This idea that people were punished for being big fat meanies on their server is largely big fat garbage. Unless you're actively fucking with people or you're actually shit at the game, nobody cares.

[Bodonius]

Assholes had to play alone, if they didnt have mad skills. Now assholes just jump to next guild. Reputation was a big thing in vanilla

[KainneAbsolute]

Lets say you can find all kind of people in the community but today is easy to hide who you deal with because you don need to interact so much with the persons in your server.

For example, the reputation of certain Guilds and I dont mean good raiders. Sometimes the reputation of the guild meant people who were willing to progress together, to include all the members and teach them how to improve their classes. I didnt find any guild like this since MOP. Iam guildless right now, people cant organize well to do a dungeon.

[Prozach]

Vanilla _did_ have people "like me". Almost exclusively. Just like today, very few people liked lazy cunts who can't find information for themselves. This idea that people were punished for being big fat meanies on their server is largely big fat garbage. Unless you're actively fucking with people or you're actually shit at the game, nobody cares.

Yeah, I got into this a few pages back. I never saw a server "black list" and rarely anything other than "xyz just ninja'ed abc, do not group!" that I immediately forgot and probably pugged or raided with several times. I'm unconvinced that you were/are required to be social in any setting other than while raiding with your guild. Even then, I think at least half of my raid group didn't talk on vent or type unless absolutely necessary. I guess if you want to consider listening to people in gchat talk about their relationship issues or how they were failing classes (seems like everyone who played this back in the day was 18 to 24) because of the game, that can be considered "social". I do remember hopping into a vent channel and listening to some female guildie crying about how mean her boyfriend was". I wouldn't consider that beneficial to my WoW experience, though, just interesting.

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Assholes had to play alone, if they didnt have mad skills. Now assholes just jump to next guild. Reputation was a big thing in vanilla

It really wasn't though. This has been discussed multiple times in this thread. No one gave a shit whether you were 'nice' or not or what happened in your previous guild, pugs, etc. You literally had to make it some kind of a mission for even a few dozen people on your server to remember anything specifically 'bad' that you did, enough for it to matter anyway. I even remember filtering through applications on the guild web site and people would list previous guild/s. Did the officers every contact the other guild as some of reference or something? No, they just looked at gear, asked a few basic questions and boom you were in. Happy raiding!