Should they bring back tier sets after BfA?

[Aggrophobic]

Meh. The azerite traits adds customisation and people seem to want that. The traits were super boring at first but they do rival old class sets now and some traits are really nice. I don't care either way though.

It's odd that people seem annoyed by the customisation when it comes to armors but for some reason want to old, clunky talent system back because "customisation". Maybe it's more about complainging than them actually wanting to imporove the game though.

[alturic]

For art sets?, sure.
For actual set items? No, please stay the fuck away.

The occasional two set item pairing such as BoD cloak and ring is fine, but multiple piece sets are just shit for gearing up, especially when the bonuses offer massive benefits compared to none set items.

I think(?) that's what the original intent was, at least it would be if I was a dev, the goal was to get sets and after getting those sets you actually "felt" it. It sounds like your issue was more of a drop-rate issue of tokens. I suppose, loosely, you could chalk it up to a full set feeling like what legendaries felt like in legion.

[grexly75]

Meh. The azerite traits adds customisation and people seem to want that. The traits were super boring at first but they do rival old class sets now and some traits are really nice. I don't care either way though.

It's odd that people seem annoyed by the customisation when it comes to armors but for some reason want to old, clunky talent system back because "customisation". Maybe it's more about complainging than them actually wanting to imporove the game though.

Never thought of that, because yes there is at least some form of customization in the azerite armor system.. And with the change to the neck piece in 8.2 extra abilities are added as well..

[Depakote]

I try asking people, and rarely get an unbiased answer, what would classic's "success" look like to you?

Do you think once the nostalgia wears off (and all the QoL changes that were implemented since) people will still find it enjoyable?



Personally, I suppose as long as there's enough players to fill even one server (so what, 3-5k?) and they actually play it would be a success to me. I do think there will be people who play nothing but classic, but my concern is those who want to play both but simply due to time have to pick one over the other and retail gets the choice. In other words, I wonder if raiding on classic will be offset for the majority of guilds since the majority of players will be raiding on their mains on retail.

I don't think there's enough of a base of players (those from the era) that still have either a.) a desire to play games, b.) a desire to play WoW, c.) the time to play games, d.) the time to play WoW and/or e.) the time to play classic WoW. That concerns me the most.

Classics success looks like what you see now on the Classic test realms. I'm not on them but i've read and seen the praise about it and fun people are having.
No i don't think the 'nostalgia' wears off. I think it'll wake people up to the shit show that live has become.
As for your time argument.. That's a bad one anyway. You think that back when Classic was new that people had more time to do things? No, they did not. It took more time to do things, to work towards something big but ya know what? People still found it fun and got to that big goal. As for Raiding in retail: if you haven't noticed it's sort of dead. More people focus on the pointlessness of Mythic + than Raids nowadays which is sad. Think more people clamor for the days of old WoW than the crap show it's been since Legion.

[Soikona]

1. if they made azerite raids only
2. if they kept azerite, but brought back the VISUAL of teir sets
3. it changes based on your spec.

would those two make you happy? that way you still have choice and such? (Im including 8.2 changes as in no need to unlock.)

If they brought back the class sets, instead of armour sets I will be happy. I do believe them cutting raid sets is just to save money on raid development costs (instead of 12 cosmetic sets to make, only 4).

[TOM_RUS]

Yes. Also remove any kind of AP like system and never add it again.

[alturic]

Classics success looks like what you see now on the Classic test realms. I'm not on them but i've read and seen the praise about it and fun people are having.
No i don't think the 'nostalgia' wears off. I think it'll wake people up to the shit show that live has become.
As for your time argument.. That's a bad one anyway. You think that back when Classic was new that people had more time to do things? No, they did not. It took more time to do things, to work towards something big but ya know what? People still found it fun and got to that big goal. As for Raiding in retail: if you haven't noticed it's sort of dead. More people focus on the pointlessness of Mythic + than Raids nowadays which is sad. Think more people clamor for the days of old WoW than the crap show it's been since Legion.

Uh, you think ~15 years ago the playerbase didn't have more time to invest into a game? I don't know about you but I had absolutely nothing to worry about when I was 16-20. Now I have a wife, kids, businesses, etc...

When I logged into the beta, I was flooded with a rush of good memories, the thought of loving WoW again. Then it hit me like a brick all the QoL changes. I'm not saying I won't be playing it, and I probably won't play retail even as I dislike it, but cast speed, pushback, oom every few kills... damn. Ha. Again, not knocking it in the slightest, but it is definitely an entirely different game than what people have played in the past ~12 years even.

I'm not saying I didn't like having to put effort and time investment into a game. I did like that, I still like that. But, at least for me, I have nowhere near the same amount of time I can invest.

[Rustykeyboard]

and also tier sets that drops from m+

[Depakote]

Uh, you think ~15 years ago the playerbase didn't have more time to invest into a game? I don't know about you but I had absolutely nothing to worry about when I was 16-20. Now I have a wife, kids, businesses, etc...

I'm not saying I didn't like having to put effort and time investment into a game. I did like that, I still like that. But, at least for me, I have nowhere near the same amount of time I can invest.

That's your personal experience. I can assure you there are many people who have the opposite experience not to mention the new younger playerbase that never experienced classic.

[Kyphael]

Only if they have good ideas. Really, you can't force art, and we should maybe have one tier set per expansion so the art team doesn't get burned out again and we start getting some uninspired designs.

[alturic]

That's your personal experience. I can assure you there are many people who have the opposite experience not to mention the new younger playerbase that never experienced classic.

You mean the younger generation of gamer that literally grew up on consoles? Grew up not having to put effort into achieving most things, and almost no effort into achieving things in games?

I personally hope very few of those players actually play classic, and it has a nice core group of ~3k-5k players and I'd be happy. I suppose out of millions of current players, and millions more who've left the game, it should be pretty easy to achieve.

[FelPlague]

If they brought back the class sets, instead of armour sets I will be happy. I do believe them cutting raid sets is just to save money on raid development costs (instead of 12 cosmetic sets to make, only 4).

thing is they are making MANY more sets elsewhere
they do have a reason why, and it makes sense
they want to make sets BASED ON THE RAID they want a break from having to make sets BASED ON THE CLASS
they want a plate titan set, a cloth one, a leather one, and a mail one, they dont want to have to make a death knight titan set, warrior titan set, paladin titan set, so on so forth.

although i do wish we got different colours "based on class" or maybe slightly different helmets/shoulders based on it, but rest the exact same.

[Soikona]

thing is they are making MANY more sets elsewhere
they do have a reason why, and it makes sense
they want to make sets BASED ON THE RAID they want a break from having to make sets BASED ON THE CLASS
they want a plate titan set, a cloth one, a leather one, and a mail one, they dont want to have to make a death knight titan set, warrior titan set, paladin titan set, so on so forth.

although i do wish we got different colours "based on class" or maybe slightly different helmets/shoulders based on it, but rest the exact same.

I just miss sets based on my class. I raided mythic to collect for transmog, but now it doesn’t feel worthwhile.

[Depakote]

You mean the younger generation of gamer that literally grew up on consoles? Grew up not having to put effort into achieving most things, and almost no effort into achieving things in games?

I personally hope very few of those players actually play classic, and it has a nice core group of ~3k-5k players and I'd be happy. I suppose out of millions of current players, and millions more who've left the game, it should be pretty easy to achieve.

lol ok bud. Don't be that person.

[Battlebeard]

NO!

Tier sets were too mandatory to have. It shouldn't matter that much which gear you have in a slot. Now, if you have the chest with crit/versa, it's fairly close to the haste/master and the master/versa chests as well. But if there was a tier chest, you might HAVE to have it, and it sucks even more if it drops from the second last boss...

Yes, you can chose which 4 gears you want as tier, but thats still 4 mandatory gears...

[CasCrow]

I want tier Sets back.
Pretty much all the tier sets look better than the gear they made for BFA so far.
For a long time I used the offset of Priest gear on my warlock. (rp server got a little backstory)
But now I just farmed a Mage offset. Both were made in BC. They just look better to me.

[Yes but actually no]

I really wish they gave you a way to keep your set bonus relevant throughout content as an alternative gearing progression, a prime example most recently would be the shadow priest set between tomb of sargeras and antorus.

• Tomb gave you 10% reduced insanity decay, this was amazing and totally changed the spec from 40ish second void cycles to 60ish second void cycles.
• Antorus gave you (i honestly had to google this because it was so forgettable) increased crit damage and increased crit chance.

The difference was night and day, mathematically antorus was better via shear numbers and ilvl but it was dull and boring, tomb on the other hand was far superior, there was massive debates where people were trying to keep their tomb set bonus over antorus for as long as possible.

Since i main shadow my main point isn't really the best example from spriest pov but when you look at it from other classes, an example being hunters in WoD.

• Hunters in BRF were BM, pretty much end of story, they started out as sv or mm but soon as they got the tier you were a bm hunter if you wanted to do the most damage, then as HFC came out, bam you were marksman hunter end of story.

Now if we were allowed to keep our set bonuses onto the next tier if we wished i would think a lot more people would be happy, some people play their spec because they like THAT spec, they don't want to have to keep changing specs every tier because x set bonus is better.
This is essentially what we all hoped azerite would allow us to do before we found out just how boring the traits were.

How do we achieve a way to keep previous tier set bonuses relevant?
It's simple, the valor system, each week you earn some valor points similar to conquest (or pretty much how valor worked in WoD really) you can spend these on upgrading 1 item by x item level, over time you can level up your favourite set bonus to be on an more equal level of a set bonus that forces you to play a spec you really would rather not play.

But wouldn't that make it where you just pick the best tier and stick with it the entire expansion?
Possibly, but the CURRENT tier can still do all the warforged crap, your valor enhanced gear cannot exceed the base ilvl of the current gear in the difficulty you acquired it. So you still have the mathematics element for those who want to min max or like a change of pace each tier, but for those who just loved a set bonus so much they don't want to change? the option is now there for you.
For example

You got tier 26 set bonus in Heroic, it's 450 ilvl, tier 27 comes out and the new ilvl is 480, the new tier 27 gear can warforge up to whatever say 485/490, your valor enhanced gear cannot be upgraded past 480 until tier 28 comes out.

[Aggrophobic]

If they brought back the class sets, instead of armour sets I will be happy. I do believe them cutting raid sets is just to save money on raid development costs (instead of 12 cosmetic sets to make, only 4).

The overall amount of different armor looks is at about the same level as in any other expansion though. The team that makes the models are hardly working any less. You just don't get one set for each class. This was done befor and people didn't seem to bother back then.

[FelPlague]

You mean the younger generation of gamer that literally grew up on consoles? Grew up not having to put effort into achieving most things, and almost no effort into achieving things in games?

I personally hope very few of those players actually play classic, and it has a nice core group of ~3k-5k players and I'd be happy. I suppose out of millions of current players, and millions more who've left the game, it should be pretty easy to achieve.

you mean the generation that grew up with acheivements in their games, meaning they were more inspired to put tons of effort into their games to acheive things like beating a game on legendary with no deaths?

mhm yeah mate don't try to blame the current generation for "not wanting to achieve things" when that generation is the one that wants to achieve things the most, having grown up with achievements in games instead of "just beat it"

really dont try to make this a generational thing...

[Eurhetemec]

In Vanilla, when you saw anyone with any set, /respect mate.

Even if it was the Defias/SM sets.

As someone who parts of both T1 and T2 Pally and the whole purple-grey upgraded dungeon set, I don't think that's actually how people behaved at all.

I mean, maybe it was if you were a kid who was impressionable and had never done a raid or something, but I was 27 in 2005, and most of my guildies and people I played with were 20-40, and people weren't like "WHOA TIER SET" or anything.

The closest anyone got to that in Vanilla, was when we finally got our main Paladin full T2, first person on the server to have it. He looked great, we were so pleased, I and the other Pallies had been not spending DKP on the last couple of pieces to let him get them to finish his set. Everyone cheered. Screenshots were taken, etc.

Less than a week later vanished. We eventually found out he'd sold his account for several hundred quid, and had in fact been negotiating since before he got all the pieces. People were more than a little annoyed, particularly guild leadership.

Tier sets have never quite been the same for me since then, and I've never been impressed with people obsessed with them as a result.

- - - Updated - - -

More people with the same unique gear? Doesn't sound so unique.

I said "unique art" - as in not used on other items.

I did not say "unique gear" - as in only one person can have it.

English can be a fiddly language though, so don't worry about it too much. If this isn't just a comprehension error on your part, but an implied criticism, it should be noted that the same criticism applies equally to tier sets.