Should AT&T and Verizon do more to combat hate speech?

[Draco-Onis]

That capitalism is better than what the leftists want such as democratic socialism.

But we already do have a democratic socialist society the argument is how far do we want to go because under a capitalist society the social safety net would not exist nor would many regulations that stop companies from putting lead in your drinks. A lot of things you would call socialism are already wildly popular go ahead and try to convince americans that social security, medicare and medicaid need to go away for the free market let me know how popular that is.

I've argued several times on these forums that ISIS should have a right to the internet up to the point that they advocate for physical violence. If they advocate violence then they should be punished just like anyone else who is violent. There's nothing special about ISIS, if you can't win a debate with an Islamist group then you have really terrible arguments.

Then we can agree to disagree because the point is to stop these people from converting others into extremism. When you give them a platform there's no guarantee that their ideas will be challenged since social media can be pretty isolating.

[Ishayu]

Q: Should the mailman read every letter to make sure it doesn't call anyone a mean thing?

A: Obviously not! Are you insane? What's in a letter is a private matter. To the extent it is opened, that should be obvious to the recipient, and be under court order.

Now apply the same logic to ISP's.

Not difficult.

[PC2]

But we already do have a democratic socialist society the argument is how far do we want to go because under a capitalist society the social safety net would not exist nor would many regulations that stop companies from putting lead in your drinks. A lot of things you would call socialism are already wildly popular go ahead and try to convince americans that social security, medicare and medicaid need to go away for the free market let me know how popular that is.

Yes we have a social democracy, but that's not necessarily the same thing as democratic socialism.

Then we can agree to disagree because the point is to stop these people from converting others into extremism. When you give them a platform there's no guarantee that their ideas will be challenged since social media can be pretty isolating.

Thing is, what is considered extreme is subjective. I'm sure there are plenty of Christians who think the whole world ought to be converted to Christianity. Which is ridiculous but they should be free to make their case.

[Monster Hunter]

I don't see what turning off there phones accomplishes doesn't that just breed more hate. all this show is how even those that preach tolerance can't tolerate others. you aren't going to change the world this way people will just be less open about there opinions and more dramatic with there actions which could be worse in the long run.

the more you challenge people's beliefs the more they believe them and facts don't matter to change most peoples minds.
articles on the study's
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/no.../#.XQIlz497nmQ
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2...ange-our-minds

ultimately this is what you see happening in society at large amongst the politically active, due to the internet and fast communication and exposure to opposing views its actually causing a daily dose of affirming a persons own views, entrenching them and pushing them further from the ability to compromise with the opposition, when a left wing user like gilrak has a pissy fight with a right wing user like videogames, what actually happens is both gilrak and videogames both leave further convinced and sure of there positions irregardless of what evidence or facts were thrown at each other. after a while it can become personal because they keep getting brought be degrees against each other or against the same argument over and over the level of frustration rises to a point where they simply will oppose each other or each other causes out of spite, which is why you see such anger thrown at morally good causes like men's mental health from the left and LGBT stuff from the right, its spiteful splash damage from a politics thats too active and confrontational.

personally i think it should be required that for one month a year talk of politics is banned all across the internet and all politicians, activists and commentators are muted. gives the cycle time to reset and every one to calm down, sounds radical but i think its needed.

theres an old saying "don't talk money, politics or religion" and theres good reasons for it.

@Doctor Amadeus

you might find those articles interesting btw.

[Machismo]

Given that our friends on the left wing have made it clear that White Nationalism and Right Wing extremism is on the rise, do you think companies like AT&T and Verizon should do more to combat them? Why should we allow a hateful bigot to operate a mobile phone or have access to the internet? It seems like curtailing access to these would combat this massive problem.

If they wanted to, I would support their freedom to do so. If you don't like it, you are free to spend your money elsewhere.

[Draco-Onis]

Yes we have a social democracy, but that's not necessarily the same thing as democratic socialism.

We disagree on that but we clearly do not have capitalism so the discussion is on individual policies and programs which is hard since the right paints everything as SOCIALISM DUN DUN DUN!!.

Thing is, what is considered extreme is subjective. I'm sure there are plenty of Christians who think the whole world ought to be converted to Christianity. Which is ridiculous but they should be free to make their case.

Agreed that is a more nuanced discussion worth having but these companies are making a binary profit driven choice, if it hurts their ability to generate money they are free to shed those people and they are free to go on other more welcoming platforms though they will not have as big of an impact.

[Flarelaine]

Given that our friends on the left wing have made it clear that White Nationalism and Right Wing extremism is on the rise, do you think companies like AT&T and Verizon should do more to combat them? Why should we allow a hateful bigot to operate a mobile phone or have access to the internet? It seems like curtailing access to these would combat this massive problem.

That is not possible, that's why there is net neut...

Oh, wait.

As you were.

[Machismo]

this does nothing to fix real problems that barley exist. the left is so hypocritical playing the victim and has so many double standards on certain people can't be racist and how reverse racism isn't real. I am sure there are many people with good intentions but more often then not people jump the gun and call out racism and hate when there is none.

Do you have evidence that such claims by them are widespread? Or, is it a problem that barely exists?

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I don't see what turning off there phones accomplishes doesn't that just breed more hate. all this show is how even those that preach tolerance can't tolerate others. you aren't going to change the world this way people will just be less open about there opinions and more dramatic with there actions which could be worse in the long run.

It's simple, a business may not want to work with racist trash. It's not about changing their minds, it's about a business being free to operate how it sees fit.

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Rofl at all the fools who want to censor "hate speech" aka any right wing views. You are going to have a really nasty wake up call when this revolution you want does happen, and you find out the majority of the military, police, defense industry and gun owners are on the right. The left would be crushed. Once you are on the run or in a prison camp maybe you will have time to reflect on how insane you were.

Are you saying that people on the right are all white nationalists, radical extremists, or sympathize with their cause? You either have a very low opinion of conservatives, or you are revealing a great deal about yourself.

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No. You just want to take phones, guns, speech, and anything else you can think of away from the right... do you think they will sit and accept it if those things do happen?

Who is taking their speech? They are still free to speak, just not on someone else's fucking property.

As for taking guns, Trump has restricted the Second Amendment more than Obama ever did as President.

You are also arguing against capitalism itself, how very big government of you.

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lol you shouldn't take this seriously. The only reason lefties are freaking out all of a sudden trying to get right wingers banned is because they realize they are losing when they sit down for political debates. Trying to get Alex Jones banned from everything is the only consolation for people who can't convince voters to pass any of their policies.

If you think the liberals are losing the debate, you haven't been paying attention. You even admitted you would actually vote for Hitler, so long as he promised to do what you wanted. You admitted that you don't care how racist someone is, or how many terrible things they have done, you would still vote for them.

[derpkitteh]

companies have no place enforcing any form of morality on the populace of this country.

we should have laws and regulations to force companies to never do this kind of thing. we're NOT corporatocracy, this would essentially be allowing companies to set the laws of our land.

[Machismo]

Nope


Because everyone has the right to express themselves and I'll tolerate no censorship. If I don't like what they have to say then I'll argue with them about why they are dumb, I won't try and stop them from being able to say it.



There's ways around everything.


omegalul

So, does that mean you are upset that this site doesn't host a mass of videos of beheadings and child porn? You either want to demand they show all those things, or you support censorship. I'll let you decide.

[justandulas]

Given that our friends on the left wing have made it clear that White Nationalism and Right Wing extremism is on the rise, do you think companies like AT&T and Verizon should do more to combat them? Why should we allow a hateful bigot to operate a mobile phone or have access to the internet? It seems like curtailing access to these would combat this massive problem.

You want to spy and listen in on free speech and private conversation men punish those who don’t groupthink like you do?

Who’s REALLY the evil, 1984 sounding group here? I’d rather deal with the idiotic far right than the control left.

This is insanity proposed. How old are you out of curiousity?

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I’d honestly rather have racists than thought police.

[Draco-Onis]

companies have no place enforcing any form of morality on the populace of this country.

we should have laws and regulations to force companies to never do this kind of thing. we're NOT corporatocracy, this would essentially be allowing companies to set the laws of our land.

So you want socialism and we are already in a corporatocracy too big to fail too big to jail ringing any bells?

[Machismo]

I was talking about debates between normal people. Though there should be more high profile debates like the Munk debate with Jordan Peterson and Stephen Fry. As far as government i'm not sure how you are arguing that the Democrat party is winning the policy debate when it only has 1 of the 3 offices. Even 2 wouldn't mean much unless it's 2/3rds of Congress.

It's simple, Trumpsters don't care about honest debate, neither to the white nationalists. You try and whine about how it should only be about policy, and yet, here you are, with your argument as "We won, so we're right."

Nah, the Trump administration has embraced national socialism.

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IDK, there are people who want to ban others from the internet, because they have different opinions.

Who is trying to ban people from the internet?

YouTube is not the fucking internet.

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Inb4 Machismo tells us how those are private companies so they should be free to do political censorship.
Its like Hitler owning the biggest telecom that 90% of people use and saying they are a private company so let them decide the direction of political discourse.

So, you are saying you hate capitalism, and want the government to control the means of production... good, thanks for admitting it.

They are a private company, let them decide whom they serve as customers. Your hatred of capitalism is noted.

[smityx]

Given that our friends on the left wing have made it clear that White Nationalism and Right Wing extremism is on the rise, do you think companies like AT&T and Verizon should do more to combat them? Why should we allow a hateful bigot to operate a mobile phone or have access to the internet? It seems like curtailing access to these would combat this massive problem.

Why stop there. Put them into camps. These camps could be concentrated in rural areas around the country or in the basements of vacated walmarts./s

[Machismo]

The goal post is moving more and more each day. The far leftards realized the majority of the people are against their deranged views so they come up with new labels for everyone even center or left whos not on board with their insanity.

Do you have any evidence of this?

[justandulas]

It's simple, Trumpsters don't care about honest debate, neither to the white nationalists. You try and whine about how it should only be about policy, and yet, here you are, with your argument as "We won, so we're right."

Nah, the Trump administration has embraced national socialism.

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Who is trying to ban people from the internet?

YouTube is not the fucking internet.

If you don’t believe in free speech for the people you disagree with the most; you don’t believe in free speech. I don’t care about what YouTube did but it certainly empowers people like the OP and creates this slippery slope.

This is how we get 1984. Firsf, the far right. Then the far left. Then anyone who speaks out. Soon we’ll all be towing the company line and speaking out or having a different opinion will be a no no

[Machismo]

Twitter allowed ISIS to run their terrorist propaganda on twitter for a long time. They were confused for a few years about how to go about and deal with active terrorists using their platform but when it came to the new political war they had a better picture to act fast and ban the evil enemies of the new left social justice army.

If you don't like it, start your own company. If you people claim that the left is vastly outnumbered, then it should be fairly easy for you to have a much more successful company in a heartbeat.

I wish you luck.

[justandulas]

Do you have any evidence of this?

Evidence of what? The left and right are both losing ground. Independents are the vast majority of America now.

[derpkitteh]

So you want socialism and we are already in a corporatocracy too big to fail too big to jail ringing any bells?

no, i don't want full socialism.

but i do not at all believe businesses should be allowed to police the behavior of the citizenry. it effectively allows a form of fascism while you jack off about your "free market" bullshit.

i do want a lot of socialist ideas though. healthcare, UBI, even some housing, strict regulations on what business can and can't do.

[Vargulf the Happy Husky]

It's mostly the FBI who recently explained that white nationalism is the greatest threat in the USA.

yeah not the gang wars that kill 130+ people in cities like indianapolis yearly, going on year 5 now. crack work, FBI.