Who gets what items?

[Rainyhealz]

2-handed fury warriors wants to say hi. Highest dps spec in vanilla by far, but lets just forget about that...

Lol no, 2h fury did not come close to 1h fury with enough hit %. Let's just forget about what you stated

[Grimreaper]

Lol no, 2h fury did not come close to 1h fury with enough hit %. Let's just forget about what you stated

Obviously you played alliance and didnt see them with windfury.

[Rainyhealz]

Obviously you played alliance and didnt see them with windfury.

Right right, and all bis lists show 1h fury for some reason? They must be wrong. All of them. Let's get rid of the offhand % damage talent. Obviously you know more than all the highest parsers

[Wewlad]

You can do good damage at Ret or Enh if you're invested and good enough. They're not meant for everyone to pick up and play, but do reward those who put the effort in (Esotarious from real Vanilla, Esfand, Drakova, Pudgy, etc.)

[Grimreaper]

Right right, and all bis lists show 1h fury for some reason? They must be wrong. All of them. Let's get rid of the offhand % damage talent. Obviously you know more than all the highest parsers

There was, to my knowledge, only 2 specs that were able to pull agro on Patchwerk. You know, the boss that adds threat to the tanks he hits with Hatefull Strikes. That was ignite rolling fire mages and 2handed fury warriors. The math was done thoroughly on the subject back in the days, and in order for a mage to pull agro he needed to maintain around 3400~ dps. This was possible when there was 4-5 geared fire mages all feeding into the same ignite. Melee needed to do less dps before pulling agro, because threat worked differently when standing at range and when being in melee range. If i recall correctly you generated 20 or 25% more threat when standing within melee range of a boss. That means melee would need to maintain 2500-2700 dps in order to pull agro. 2handed fury warriors could do that with a bit of luck on crits and windfury procs.

Why didnt you see more 2handed fury warriors back in the days? Because everyone was threatcapped 24/7 and it didnt matter what you played, so people went with the easiest spec to play. 2handed fury was notoriously difficult to play properly due to timing you improved slams correctly, and the higher latency back then didnt help either. Moreover it was very spikey damage output, especially with windfury and hand of justice trinket, wich often resulted in pulling agro early on in a fight. Dual-wield had way smoother and reliable damage.

[Yes but actually no]

There was, to my knowledge, only 2 specs that were able to pull agro on Patchwerk. You know, the boss that adds threat to the tanks he hits with Hatefull Strikes. That was ignite rolling fire mages and 2handed fury warriors. The math was done thoroughly on the subject back in the days, and in order for a mage to pull agro he needed to maintain around 3400~ dps. This was possible when there was 4-5 geared fire mages all feeding into the same ignite. Melee needed to do less dps before pulling agro, because threat worked differently when standing at range and when being in melee range. If i recall correctly you generated 20 or 25% more threat when standing within melee range of a boss. That means melee would need to maintain 2500-2700 dps in order to pull agro. 2handed fury warriors could do that with a bit of luck on crits and windfury procs.

Why didnt you see more 2handed fury warriors back in the days? Because everyone was threatcapped 24/7 and it didnt matter what you played, so people went with the easiest spec to play. 2handed fury was notoriously difficult to play properly due to timing you improved slams correctly, and the higher latency back then didnt help either. Moreover it was very spikey damage output, especially with windfury and hand of justice trinket, wich often resulted in pulling agro early on in a fight. Dual-wield had way smoother and reliable damage.

This post is so wrong it's actually infuriating. Agro was simply less % needed to overagro from a tank if you were melee vs range, a range needed 130% agro where as a melee only needed 110%

Warriors were not and never will be doing 2.5 - 2.7k dps in vanilla

You didn't see more 2h fury warriors because it's a meme spec vs consistant dps of dual wield

[Grimreaper]

This post is so wrong it's actually infuriating.

This post clearly proves it.

[Oneer]

Bonereaver's edge has a unique role as being a pre-AQ 2h fury option for raids on horde side thanks to WF increasing the ArP buff's uptime (one less warrior to roll/bid on deathbringer/doom's edge/Crul'shorukh), otherwise everything else is a PvP toy although it's not unherd of to see hunters using Ashkandi & Zin'rokh.

[Belloc]

Even if specs like Ret and Arms are sub-par DPS, it won't be an issue. Half of the people raiding back in the day were utterly terrible at their class and they still got invites. A good Ret/Arms player will likely be better than a bad player with a good class... and, if history is any indication, there are going to be a lot of bad players.

[Lolsteak]

I spent all my DKP on one of the axes in BWL on my shaman. Had a blast using it in BGs befor anyone had gear enough to survive it. No serious raiders really needed 2handers back then and the most likely won't be needing them in classic either.

My GM was furious becuase of my lack of dedication (I was a healer of course) but it was worth it! Well, it was back then. Sitting around waiting for a WF proc as the only way to do damage now would be a horror. I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would play that old crap again but hey, each to their own.

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Yeah, there are no 2h-roles in raids. Simple as that.

That's not entirely correct

There's a spot for Nightfall in every raid

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

How viable is ret, arms and enhancement in raids, do they do acceptable damage in any way or is it just a disaster completely?

You could have a Warrior who does 800 dps or you could have a Enh Shaman/Ret Pala doing 300 dps.
Or you could have the Paladin and Shaman spec heal (or use Nightfall for max support build) and instantly have them being a lot more useful.

Who gets 2 handed strength weapons?
If there's Attackpower on them as opposed to Strength then Hunters get first dibs, example Ashkandi and Jin'rokh.
If there's Strength on them then it usually is a free roll or bid between anyone who does pvp.

[Battlebeard]

Hey, so i've been wondering for a while now, there is quite a few 2 hander drops in the game but warriors prefer fury, paladins will generally only be accepted as holy, shamans the same.

Who gets Ashkandi, Might of Menethil, Ashbringer and other pretty cool 2 handers in the game, is your guild going to roll them out for offspecc to members or are you expecting to just DE these pieces or use them as hunter statsticks?

These items will hardly be obtained for pugs, meaning the officers of the guild will decide who gets it.

People speak of DKP, cause it was primarily used back then, but I think most agree is an outdated system that will never return. I think some kind of loot council will happen for basically every guild.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

That's not entirely correct

There's a spot for Nightfall in every raid

That spot can be filled by the offtank (or whichever tank isn't holding aggro at the moment), a Hunter spamming Wing Clip, for Horde it typically would be a Enh Shaman specced into buffs and offheals like this build.

- - - Updated - - -

These items will hardly be obtained for pugs, meaning the officers of the guild will decide who gets it.

People speak of DKP, cause it was primarily used back then, but I think most agree is an outdated system that will never return. I think some kind of loot council will happen for basically every guild.

Loot council for items that will help progression, high roll for whatever items aren't going to main specs.

[Lolsteak]

That spot can be filled by the offtank (or whichever tank isn't holding aggro at the moment), a Hunter spamming Wing Clip, for Horde it typically would be a Enh Shaman specced into buffs and offheals like this build.

A meme spec would still be preferable to both of those, Off-tanks won't be DPSing 100% of the time (Wasting Nightfall when they're not) and wing clip spam is going to be less DPS than something like a Ret

[IIamaKing]

I never got anywhere near Naxx in Classic WoW, but....I feel like any guild who'd outright DE something like Might of Menethil when there are warriors/pallies who could use it is a shit guild that I'd never want to be a part of, regardless of Naxx clearing capability.

Dude I was in a "guild" (self important non raiders) who needed me to tank a Heroic SteamVaults. Id come from a decent raiding guild on the server after the leadership left the server, I was a geared and competent. Not to ego stroke, but my presence along with a healer half paying attention meant a cleared heroic. I told em going in that I wanted the mask of penance, it was useless to me beyond looking cool in IF (this is a time before xmog) I was the only plate wearer. We ran the dungeon it dropped the "GM" rolled need against me and won, stating "We could use the shard". I laughed and said "I have over 100 I could give, I postponed my plans an hour to help you out and you destroy the 1 thing I was afte", needed or not I was pretty pissed. Needless to say I cheesed the next pull killed the group left the guild and went fishing like I was planning too.

I get a laugh out of how serious they were about that shard to this day.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

A meme spec would still be preferable to both of those, Off-tanks won't be DPSing 100% of the time (Wasting Nightfall when they're not) and wing clip spam is going to be less DPS than something like a Ret

True you could use a Ret Paladin for Nightfall as alliance but he'd still not be there for his own damage. He'd be there to provide buffs and auras, on top of Nightfall- obviously. But that still makes you the "bitch" of the raid and you'll never be a dps, but a support.
Hell what spec would you even be if you're the Nightfall Ret Paladin? You'll be stuck in Seal of the Crusader for the 40% increased attackspeed and you can't apply any Judgement debuffs because of the debuff limitations. I'm thinking you probably go something like this and if shit hits the fan you simply swap to a healing weapon and heal for a bit before you turn back to Nightfall.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

What it should be? Honestly a lot of these weapons would be great to go to paladins.. even if they are holy.. because you can get SoC pretty easily and still be balled out holy and accomplish a lot of things. Not to mention it being amazing for that one ret that might be swinging nightfall for you as a reward since he swings a crafted shit weapon for your casters DPS in raids. Hunters, honestly, yeah these weapons are great for hunters as well.

What does experience tell me (vanilla back in the day and PRs)? Warriors will QQ to get "PVP" weapon and most of them will never use it but pretend to go arms because they like getting more loot. Tanking warriors of course most of all. Since most people sunk a ton of gear, gold, and time into them usually the knee is just bent and they get them. Then of course the furry warriors that will also whine about PVP weapon and never use it because their DPS will go to shit but "they heard of a 2 hand furry build that was bad ass so give it to me" thing.

[VanishingAct]

Hey, so i've been wondering for a while now, there is quite a few 2 hander drops in the game but warriors prefer fury, paladins will generally only be accepted as holy, shamans the same.

Who gets Ashkandi, Might of Menethil, Ashbringer and other pretty cool 2 handers in the game, is your guild going to roll them out for offspecc to members or are you expecting to just DE these pieces or use them as hunter statsticks?

Hunters of course!

[lonely zergling]

Mostly for PvP warrior and maybe 2hand fury. Maybe throw some meme paladin/enhancer in.
However there are some 2handers that are basically made for hunters. Spear in aq and naxx for example. Other than that the god tier hunters that know what melee weaving is in your guild should get prio for Ashkandi / Jinrok and maybe Ashbringer (will never drop anyway lul).

[sourlol]

Warriors would have priority on 1h axes.

Rogues would have priority on daggers.

The top dps for rogues was 1h swords, for warriors 1h axes, up to naxx.

That said, you would get 2 pieces of loot from a boss that possibly weren’t tier items. Weapons, in general dropped pretty infrequently. It’s not unlikely for your entire melee team to have different weapon setups.

With that being said, 2h axes and swords were a thing.

If you run with 3 prot tanks and 5 dps warriors and 5 rogues you may have 2 dagger rogues, 2 sword rogues and someone who takes maxes, fists, w/e. You will also have 2 dps warriors who have ideal weps, the other 3 will swap weapons around between random 1h fury and 2h fury. A warrior swinging ashkandi is doing more damage than one swinging Dal rends.

Beyond that your healers who PvP and your warriors who PvP are thought of, if you are on the cutting edge, getting your second or third zinrohk or ashkandi onto a hunter makes sense too.