Marvel comics revert new characters

[Skroe]

I've given up following the X-Men roster long ago, but the early '90s is when I got hooked. Out of curiosity, who was on that "Strike Force" lineup?

It was the X-Men #1 "Blue Team, Gold Team" group. "Strike Force X-Men was a name Wizard magazxine used forever ago and I always liked it, because it captured exactly what was different about that team compared to what came before and after. The weren't kids, students or teachers. The Xavier Institute wasn't a anymore school. They were adults on a big team of mutants, whose job it was to protect the world from mutant and non-mutant threats. They were organized and at the height of their powers.

You had Cyclops who finally came into his own after the end of X-Factor and losing his son to Apocalypse.

You had Wolverine, who cotemporarneously in his own book at the time, was first being fleshed out with the entire "Weapon X" back story (Marvel Comics Presents Weapon X came out at a similar time). This was Wolverine at the start of his run as the 1990s most popular comics character.

You had Jean Grey, finally post Phoenix, at the height of her capability.

You had Gambit and Rogue, who moved way past what they debuted as in the years before.

You Beast as a peer to Xavier, and an Xavier who was involved and motivated.

You had Storm and Colosuss at the height of her powers and position in the X-Men, leaving behind weird 1980s stories.

Iceman and Archagel moved well past their X-Factor incarnations.

Bishop came along before too long.

You had NINJA Psylocke who started her run as second to only Wolverine in combat ability.

Originally you had Forge and Banshee too.



This is the X-Men that decided to actively attack Magneto. Twice.

It's worth recalling how they came about. It's a merger of the 1980s X-Factor (the original 5), the Australian X-Men (Storm, Wolverine, Psylocke, Colossus, and indirectly Gambit and Rogue) along with some Muir Isle X-Men (Forge, Banshee) and a returned Professor X. Havok (Australian team) joined X-Factor, which replaced Freedom Force at the government's mutant team (Freedom Force really being Mystique's Brotherhood of Evil Mutants, legitimized). Polaris and Multiple Man who were associated with the Muir Isle X-Men joined X-Factor. Rachel Grey / Phoenix, Kitty Pryde and Nightcrawler founded Excalibur and left the Australian team just before they became the Australian team (Fall of the Mutants crossover). And of course, the New Mutants had just met Cable and were transitioning into the first X-Force.

It was and remains the best X-Men era, and everything that's come after has been a pale imitation brought about by writers who didn't think long term about what to do with these characters and their world. The X-men being in Chris Claremont's hands for 16 years, uninterrupted, brought about the "Strike Force" team.

But now days you got "Pixie" and Rockslide, and Beast being an imbecile and Cyclops (until recently) becoming essentially, Magneto, complete with Magneto Island. And you have a Wolverine whose back story is not arguably Marvel's most explored. You have the Gay Iceman retcon.


Uncanny X-Men is doing a back-to-basics kind of thing snow, with Cyclops in his 1990s uniform for the first time in nearly 20 years. But it's going to get all undone this summer with Powers of X and House of X, which will be yet another radical revamp for a franchise that's only suffered because of it since Messiah Complex.

[Flarelaine]

<short essay on Strike Force>

I see, thanks. That bit is actually later than stuff I'm closely familiar with - I only had access to Hungarian translations in high school and they were kinda cherrypicking the big stories. They also skipped the original 5. We had Inferno, Days of Future Past, Dark Phoenix and the like.

[Shadowferal]

The late 80s is when X-Men started going under.
By the 90s they were making one okay character for every 3 completely forgettable ones. It was embarrassing.

[Tabrotar]

I did read Sam Wilson's Cap comic...and it was terrible...but the backlash against him started as soon as it was revealed he'd be taking over from Steve as Captain America. Miles was well received by most readers...but it's the people that don't even read comics anymore that are the ones that start all the furor under the guise of not liking replacing characters...but they only seem to pay attention when it's a minority taking over for a white male character. People don't bat an eye when it's a white guy replacing another white guy...unless that white guy happens to be gay.

Please Miles was and is shit, a character which only became somewhat popular bcs they had to kill of Peter or otherwise he wouldn´t have anything going for him isn´t "well recived".

[Doctor Funkenstein]

its years later and some how people still don't get this? no established characters were changed outside of iceman every single one has been a new character in a new story line.

No, they're existing characters that they changed to suit their attempts to be "diverse." What they've done and still seem to want to do is basically the same as Xena being labeled "Hercules" just because his name is well known in Greek mythology. It's that fucking stupid. Instead of coming up with completely new characters they're just creating something and throwing on an old label to try and sucker people into liking them rather than actually working to create a genuinely new character.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

No, they're existing characters that they changed to suit their attempts to be "diverse." What they've done and still seem to want to do is basically the same as Xena being labeled "Hercules" just because his name is well known in Greek mythology. It's that fucking stupid. Instead of coming up with completely new characters they're just creating something and throwing on an old label to try and sucker people into liking them rather than actually working to create a genuinely new character.

that's just not how it works.

danny ketch wasn't a changed johnny blaze, jhames rhode and doctor doom weren't a changed tony stark, khane wasn't a changed ben Reilly, bucky wasn't a changed steve, ect ect.

each and every single one is either a new character or an old character doing new things just like miles khan or riri.

[Dhrizzle]

No, they're existing characters that they changed to suit their attempts to be "diverse." What they've done and still seem to want to do is basically the same as Xena being labeled "Hercules" just because his name is well known in Greek mythology. It's that fucking stupid. Instead of coming up with completely new characters they're just creating something and throwing on an old label to try and sucker people into liking them rather than actually working to create a genuinely new character.

None of the existing characters were changed, they either died, retired, disappeared or went to do something else for a while and new characters took up their super-hero mantle. Comics do it all the time but it only seems to be since Marvel got big in the movie scene that people have started screeching about it in earnest. Even in the MCU we see Scott Lang taking over as Ant-Man from Hank Pym but for some reason that caused a lot less tears.

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that's just not how it works.

danny ketch wasn't a changed johnny blaze, jhames rhode and doctor doom weren't a changed tony stark, khane wasn't a changed ben Reilly, bucky wasn't a changed steve, ect ect.

each and every single one is either a new character or an old character doing new things just like miles khan or riri.

Kaine (no "H," he isn't a bloody-handed god) was an excellent Scarlet Spider though, especially when he had crossovers with Flash Thompson's Agent Venom.

[Doctor Funkenstein]

None of the existing characters were changed, they either died, retired, disappeared or went to do something else for a while and new characters took up their super-hero mantle.

That's the fucking definition of changed.

Spider-Man = Peter Parker. Just like Hercules = Hercules. Spider-Man does not equal Miles Morales, just like Hercules does not equal Xena. Those are completely different characters.

When people get a book about Spider-Man, they want to hear about Peter Parker, because Peter Parker is Spider-Man. It's not god damned fucking rocket science.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Kaine (no "H," he isn't a bloody-handed god) was an excellent Scarlet Spider though, especially when he had crossovers with Flash Thompson's Agent Venom.

his scarlet spider comics were really great, though if i remember right they never really got a good ending because of spider verse i think.

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That's the fucking definition of changed.

Spider-Man = Peter Parker. Just like Hercules = Hercules. Spider-Man does not equal Miles Morales, just like Hercules does not equal Xena. Those are completely different characters.

When people get a book about Spider-Man, they want to hear about Peter Parker, because Peter Parker is Spider-Man. It's not god damned fucking rocket science.

you not understanding how super hero names work doesn't mean any one got changed.

[ohwell]

I don't get it. Those characters were never permanent replacements. OP's use of revert is completely off base.

There was NOTHING to suggest several of them weren't. I guess we need Bucky to take over Black Panther's mantle to really send the point home to the racists and sexists out there......oh wait they'd scream white washing. Jane was written off(and yes it was due to sales) with something that wasn't there originally. She was to remain Thor(which is not a mantle, his hammer is what the mantle would be).

[Doctor Funkenstein]

you not understanding how super hero names work doesn't mean any one got changed.

No, I understand perfectly.

What you don't understand is it's not what people fucking want. Them telling you that it's just a title and not a character at all is fucking annoying as hell. Peter Parker deciding to go by Spider-Man to preserve his real identity makes it intrinsically tied to him. He is Spider-Man. Period. And the people who are interested in Spider-Man are interested in Peter Parker. Not some randomly chosen character they threw the label on because they couldn't be bothered to create a genuienly new character, as opposed to riding on the coat-tails of an existing one.

But it's cool, I get that you don't understand that. Unfortunately for you, the vast majority of the population couldn't give less of a fuck what you think in your feeble attempts to be "woke."

[Dhrizzle]

That's the fucking definition of changed.

Spider-Man = Peter Parker. Just like Hercules = Hercules. Spider-Man does not equal Miles Morales, just like Hercules does not equal Xena. Those are completely different characters.

When people get a book about Spider-Man, they want to hear about Peter Parker, because Peter Parker is Spider-Man. It's not god damned fucking rocket science.

Oh, you didn't mean "changed the character" you meant "changed the circumstances of the character and also changed the circumstances of another character to be similar to the original circumstances of the first character."

So in Spider-Man for example, they didn't change the character Peter Parker, his circumstances changed (he was sorta dead) and then another character's circumstances changed so Doctor Octopus became Spider-Man. And you think this was done for the sake of diversity, because Marvel thought there were too many young men in comics and decided to shake things up by having an old man in a young man's body?

How do you explain Kaine taking over the Scarlet Spider mantle from Ben Reilly, or Flash Thompson becoming Venom, or Eric Mastersson becoming Thor, or Doctor Doom being Iron Man?

[Doctor Funkenstein]

Oh, you didn't mean "changed the character" you meant "changed the circumstances of the character and also changed the circumstances of another character to be similar to the original circumstances of the first character."

No. I said exactly what I fucking meant.

[Dhrizzle]

his scarlet spider comics were really great, though if i remember right they never really got a good ending because of spider verse i think.

They wrapped up his run in Houston well enough I thought but I don't think they really figured out the Mexican god/girl he was hanging out with. They joined the New Warriors for a while then Spider-Verse happened which was kinda the conclusion of his story with the Other (the weird murdery spider-monster-totem thingy.)

[Lorgar Aurelian]

No, I understand perfectly.

What you don't understand is it's not what people fucking want. Them telling you that it's just a title and not a character at all is fucking annoying as hell. Peter Parker deciding to go by Spider-Man to preserve his real identity makes it intrinsically tied to him. He is Spider-Man. Period. And the people who are interested in Spider-Man are interested in Peter Parker. Not some randomly chosen character they threw the label on because they couldn't be bothered to create a genuienly new character, as opposed to riding on the coat-tails of an existing one.

But it's cool, I get that you don't understand that. Unfortunately for you, the vast majority of the population couldn't give less of a fuck what you think in your feeble attempts to be "woke."

marvel doesn't agree with you the readers don't agree with you and history doesn't agree with you. super hero mantels get pass around this is how its always worked if you don't like it that's fine but your wrong to say that only one character can be spider man or ghost rider or captain america ect.

but its cool, i get that you don't understand comics. its unfortunate that the majority of people who read and make comics get how this work but you don't because, well your just feeble.

[Shadowferal]

There is the rub...when a name gets more commonplace, a prospective buyer will have expectations. Peter Parker = Spiderman...anything else is "wtf is this shit?"
It's like replacing Doctor Doom with...well..

Changes made over time have always returned to what made the characters familiar to begin with.

[Dhrizzle]

No. I said exactly what I fucking meant.

Oh, in that case you're completely wrong. No matter how upset it makes you about the "wokeness" when Scott Lang became Ant-Man it wasn't by changing Hank Pym, Hank just went on to something else in his life and left a role for Scott to take.

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There is the rub...when a name gets more commonplace, a prospective buyer will have expectations. Peter Parker = Spiderman...anything else is "wtf is this shit?"
It's like replacing Doctor Doom with...well..

Changes made over time have always returned to what made the characters familiar to begin with.

Well yeah, that's how they try to freshen up a 70 year old shared universe. People say things like "hey what if Steve Rogers got "killed" and Bucky was Captain America for a while" and they do that for a trial run and if it works or leads to something interesting they go a while longer, but everyone knows some sort of ass-pull was going to happen that resets the status quo. But then you get people who can't quite handle the idea of someone doing someone else's job, and they have to cry that "woke" people are trying to increase diversity by replacing a white American male with a different white American male.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

There was NOTHING to suggest several of them weren't. I guess we need Bucky to take over Black Panther's mantle to really send the point home to the racists and sexists out there......oh wait they'd scream white washing. Jane was written off(and yes it was due to sales) with something that wasn't there originally. She was to remain Thor(which is not a mantle, his hammer is what the mantle would be).

excluding maybe sam cap as i didn't read any thing of his, tony was in a coma and had a hologram we knew he was coming back. ms marvel was still going at the same time as khan. we already had an old wolverine when x23 became wolverine.

jane thor is also the single worse example you could give as we knew from before the first issue she wasn't always going to stay thor. your either lying or really uninformed.

[Maruka]

Im a fan of leaving old characters as is, and make new interesting characters from different aspects of humanity. The best of both worlds.

[BreakerOfWills]

So I'm at the comic book store currently and notice that marvel seems to have reverted all of their characters back to their original state. None of the gender/race bent characters seem to be left.

What do you guys think about it? Honestly I want them to continue with x-23 and gabby. Shes one of the few of their alternate characters that seemed widely accepted and enjoyed. Shes by far my favorite comic book character.

Yeah, if you buy into the "race/gender bent" anti-sjw outrage machine bs then you're just ignoring the entire history of comics where people temporarily take up mantles and then the status quo resets.

It's literally just recently that this is seen as some sjw crusade and not a standard part of comics wtfery

Now the question is, the next time a character changes only to inevitably change back or move on after an arc is completed will people throw a fit?

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People are both upset at both the heavy political undertone and creeped out by the overt nature of all of media moving in lockstep on agendas like some Orwellian nightmare.

There's no heavy political undertone unless brown people/women make you freak out. You're just telling on yourself at this point. And yeah, Orwell was definitely warning about (checks notes) slightly more diversity in pop culture, not totalitarian government at all, noooooo, ignore the concentration camps and warmongering people there's brown people in the funny books!