Fate of Sylvanas Loyalist Players

[Super Dickmann]

The only option for Sylvanas to be an old god puppet is to be corrupted by him. I cant believe they would make Sylvanas willingly working for Nzoth without playing 4D-Chess. I dont believe that bullshit until I see it by myself

They've spent this entire expansion gutting this character and rewriting her race in order to bring about the Unifaction. Denying her even the dignity of being the last boss to instead be a lackey to N'zoth is the end point. If you're right I'll be happy to be wrong, but I really doubt it.

[EbaumsTipster]

I am positive Thunder Bluff isn't a red herring though. Blizzard didn't make those tauren skeleton models for a procedurally generated one-off in Lordaeron where you might not even see them.

They added skellies for just about every race, I wouldn't bank too hard on them

[Super Dickmann]

They added skellies for just about every race, I wouldn't bank too hard on them

Human and orc ones were already in and goblin ones have already been reused, but I can see your point. I do think that they won't just gloss it over though.

The only thing making me ponder is that we also have the goblin and worgen scenarios which could also be big story beats. Removing Gallywix/firing the cannon and liberating Gilneas respectively. Inb4 it's like the tauren questline and has fuck all to do with anything

[Cathululock]

Your character is getting deleted.

I wish. People who stayed loyal to her are not the brightest crayon in the box, that's for sure.

[EbaumsTipster]

The only thing making me ponder is that we also have the goblin and worgen scenarios which could also be big story beats. Removing Gallywix/firing the cannon and liberating Gilneas respectively. Inb4 it's like the tauren questline and has fuck all to do with anything

If they were clever, both heritage stories would involve the race screwing over Sylvanas in some way after it's confirmed she's the final boss. So reclaiming Gilneas as you said, but maybe the gun actually DID get fired and the Goblins are fighting for control of it.

I don't think the Tauren quest was that irrelevant because it's a heavy handed "Shadowlands soon" thing, and would be insanely relevant if a ton of Tauren did actually die.

The one thing that makes me think Thunder Bluff may actually get attacked: Nelves and then Tauren getting attacked by Sylvanas is Life vs Death. Druids and all that.

[Arrashi]

Was gonna post this

Except ofc it won't happen and our choices will be inconsequential...well...maybe we get a title out of this..like "The Traitor" or such

Nah its just not spicy. It must me spicier, to drive the point home. Something like "Not a good person <name>" or "Not honorable <name>"

or the "Undepressed one"

[ilgynoth]

I wish. People who stayed loyal to her are not the brightest crayon in the box, that's for sure.

With this comment you just prooved that you are not the brightest crayon in the box. Its like saying: "OMG everyone who dont watch/likes only movies with a happy end are stupid"
Thats you
[Infraction]

[Varodoc]

Going back to what the OP said, I think you raised an interesting point about the Alliance having to eventually join forces with Sylvanas loyalists. And personally that is just unacceptable. You can make the argument that us forgiving the "honorable" Horde rebels is understandable because they showed us decency and respect, albeit only sporadically, but Sylvanas loyalists have not done ANYTHING at all to win back our favour or to prove that they dserve a third chance. To which I ask, how will Blizzard get out of this mess? How can they reconcile Alliance and Sylvanas loyalists?

I have no idea, and knowing Blizzard, they don't either.

[tromage2]

Going back to what the OP said, I think you raised an interesting point about the Alliance having to eventually join forces with Sylvanas loyalists. And personally that is just unacceptable. You can make the argument that us forgiving the "honorable" Horde rebels is understandable because they showed us decency and respect, albeit only sporadically, but Sylvanas loyalists have not done ANYTHING at all to win back our favour or to prove that they dserve a third chance. To which I ask, how will Blizzard get out of this mess? How can they reconcile Alliance and Sylvanas loyalists?

I have no idea, and knowing Blizzard, they don't either.

Dont end the faction conflict there i fixed the mess.

You dont need peace to move forward, just get a bigger player get into the scene that is a threat to both sides and the war focus will shift toward them for the next exp pack. Peace is not needed to move past BfA.

[Arrashi]

I sort of roleplayed my UD warlock...he would definitely stick to Sylvanas...look to RL...nothing is black or white or clear cut. Look at political leaders who lead us to war and the people who voted for them...you think they believe they are "not a good person"? People who voted the leaders that then got the world into the Vietnam war etc?

Dunno, but forsaken definately do see themselves as "Not a good people".

[Alixie]

Sylvanas did kill them for singularly retarded reasons with the correct reasoning that they were traitors given as a figleaf to Nathanos. The whole bit about their families is emotive nonsense. They're high ranking officials defecting to a state that's been in on and off war with hers for fifteen years now and were doing so under a pretender who was obviously going to try and take her kingdom back. In real life states have the death penalty thrown around just for passing info by low-ranking dudes, let alone outright defection by the administrators of the capital. Killing them is the right call done for a stupid reason. Mind, Sylvanas has previously let people leave to join the Argent Crusade or even rando merc groups.

In real life, the US doesnt shoot people in the back if they decide to renounce their citizenship and join North Korea. They're not welcome back, but they are free to leave. A more authoritarian state, which the Forsaken heavily resemble, will probably shoot anyone even thinking about leaving UC.

But Sylvanas explains to Nathanos who is appropriately shocked, the reason she's killing people who are returning is because she needs to cut out the cancer that is hope. If this really was about loyalty as he thought, holding these Forsaken to a trial would have been more appropriate. She would have found most if not all the Council (high ranking officials) turned down Calia's offer to return to Sylvanas. That's why she didnt spare the loyalist who returned.

I'm unsure if the devs remember the bit about Stormwind still, though if they do, my suspicion is that Thunder Bluff is the point where siding with Sylvanas, even performatively, is no longer an option, since she'll cease to be Warchief of the Horde after that but be revealed as an old god puppet. If and when she attacks SW it'll be as an agent of N'zoth and we'll all be fighting her tentacled/skellie minions.

I am positive Thunder Bluff isn't a red herring though. Blizzard didn't make those tauren skeleton models for a procedurally generated one-off in Lordaeron where you might not even see them.

There's Gnome, Orc, and Dwarf skeleton models wandering around UC. They're probably just there for decoration.

Im positive Saurfang lied to Thrall and blamed Sylvanas for Teldrassil and every thing that went wrong since Volgin died. That's why he's quick to think TB will be under attack. If he thinks Sylvanas impulsively torched the tree out of petty retribution, he's thinking shell do the same to TB because of Baine's defiant actions. The payoff for the loyalist player is that Sylvanas has a cannon mole who's keeping tabs on Saurfang's rebellion. She'll know that Thrall will convince Jaina and Anduin to lend troops to defend TB - enter the Mulgore Warfront. In reality she's moving a small loyalist troops to invade an unguarded Stormwind, the real prize. Anduin will look like a bleeding heart fool for chosing to defend a Horde city over his own, and Sylvanas will hold Stromwind hostage.

[Arrashi]

Are they? I mean..as ingame race? I admit that when I wanted to roll a warlock, I looked at a race that seemed "evil" from the outside...but do they themselves see them being evil? Or more like "Geez, we got fucked, so we have a lot to give back to the world"

<Dialogue>
Calder Gray: Do you know what I like, (insert character name here)?

Your character: No Calder, what do you like?

Calder Gray: Murder


I dunno decide on your own. Man do i miss pre-golden forsaken.

[Gelannerai]

Are they? I mean..as ingame race? I admit that when I wanted to roll a warlock, I looked at a race that seemed "evil" from the outside...but do they themselves see them being evil? Or more like "Geez, we got fucked, so we have a lot to give back to the world"

I mean, you pretty much just summed up the basic motivation for a loooooooooot of villains in literature and pop culture.

[Powerogue]

Tinfoil hat on.

Surprise me Blizzard. Tell me that Anduin wanted the Horde rebels and Horde loyalists all in Thunder Bluff so that he can wipe them all out in one swift strike.

"The Boy-King serves at the master's table... Three lies will he offer you."

The lie is that Anduin wants peace with the Horde. This is all part of his masterplan to eliminate both blocks of the Horde in one battle. Sylvanas will send her troops to Thunder Bluff, while Saurfang and his band of rebels will be defending the city, and they will all be annihilated by the Alliance when the time is right. In the meantime, Tyrande will lead a secondary Alliance army to sack Orgrimmar from the north. Smart strategy.

Oh god please yes.

I don't care that Anduin hasn't acted suspicious whatsoever this whole expansion, let's please have that be the thing. Rebels and loyalists fight again, we say that we're going to help the rebels, then right at the end, boom!

[Kallisto]

Nice moving goalpost. She murdered everyone on the field. Loyalist or not. Its precious how loyalist players are so sure Sylvanas wont stab them in back too.

Calia was there. They didn't obey their monarch. This isn't 21st century it is basically medieval Europe. Showing that you have sympathy for a pretender always ended up with a loss of your life. Hell usually bit of torture too.

[Dellis0991]

They will have their dicks pushed in till Sylvanas pulls a "Azeroth is free!" moment.

[Powerogue]

Nice moving goalpost. She murdered everyone on the field. Loyalist or not. Its precious how loyalist players are so sure Sylvanas wont stab them in back too.

It shouldn't surprise anyone at this point. She's been manipulating the player since the beginning.

Sylvanas: Go and find Saurfang so we can return him home safe and sound. Those darn dirty alliance will probably try to assassinate him!
dark rangers: We'll take it from here. Head home and definitely don't follow us. No reason. Nothing suspicious happening here.
*mere seconds later, with zero indication the Dark Rangers headed all the way back to Org to report to Sylvanas again*
dark rangers: We're here on orders from Sylvanas to kill you!

Calia was there. They didn't obey their monarch. This isn't 21st century it is basically medieval Europe. Showing that you have sympathy for a pretender always ended up with a loss of your life. Hell usually bit of torture too.

1. Calia was their rightful monarch. Kind of a catch-22 there.
2. They did obey Sylvanas. At least 2 of them. (3 if Elsie, who was ordering them to head to the wall, but may or may not have been moving in that direction at the time of being shot, counts.) Got shot anyway.
3. Pretty much everyone except Parqual who instigated it and Calia who rallied them just seemed panicked. There's a note of several attempting to shield their human family from the onslaught, not realizing they were the target. That would be shielding them as they head towards the keep. Protecting your family isn't treason. You need intent. Not that it matters, as Syl. explicitly says that she executed forsaken that she knew were not traitors in order to snuff out their hope.

I still think that us attempting to protect someone who is innocent, that Sylvanas is paranoid delusional into thinking otherwise, and getting likewise branded a traitor for it and her turning on the player, is a pretty likely scenario to force loyalists over to that side. The problem of that route is said loyalists will immediately twist the universe into whatever Sylvanas says it is.

[Verdugo]

dark rangers: We're here on orders from Sylvanas to kill you!

Nice to see you didnt do the questline, only heard about it.

[Powerogue]

Nice to see you didnt do the questline, only heard about it.

https://www.wowhead.com/news=287811/...orde-questline

Did you?

Let's see, Sylvanas giving you every indication to bring Saurfang home safely and protect him from assassins, check.
Lyana "My orders come from the Warchief herself!" double check.
Lyana "Kill the traitor--and all who stand with him!", checkarooni.

Mmmnope, still right. Only bit I forgot was Lyana threatening Saurfang with "just" burning his house down and dragging him home in chains first before trying to kill him.

It was actually interesting to hear Saurfang say "tell your king he is not alone." Indicating that Saurfang made no bargains with Anduin before that point, merely orchestrating his own escape with Anduin's behind the scenes assistance.

Edit: Some really fascinating commentary in this wowhead page actually. I had just linked it for the quotes, but it goes into detail about implications given the 2 books and other material. There's a compelling case that she had been planning to off Saurfang since at least the Malfurion duel, maybe even before. "Forces outside of the alliance" would inevitably stand against "her true objective", it was simply happening "sooner than expected."

[Kallisto]

https://www.wowhead.com/news=287811/...orde-questline

Did you?

Let's see, Sylvanas giving you every indication to bring Saurfang home safely and protect him from assassins, check.
Lyana "Kill the traitor--and all who stand with him!", checkarooni.

Mmmnope, still right. Only bit I forgot was Lyana threatening Saurfang with "just" burning down his house down and dragging him home in chains first before trying to kill him.

It was actually interesting to hear Saurfang say "tell your king he is not alone." Indicating that Saurfang made no bargains with Anduin before that point, merely orchestrating his own escape with Anduin's behind the scenes assistance.

Let's expand on that shall we

Dark Ranger Lyana says: You will throw down your weapon at once and come with us.
Dark Ranger Lyana says: Or you will die here, in the swamp, alone.
Zekhan says: Not alone!
Varok Saurfang says: I see you still have not learned to fear impossible odds, my young friend. It is an honor to stand at your side.
Varok Saurfang says: Enough of your prattling, dark ranger! If you came seeking a fight, you shall have it!
Varok Saurfang says: For the honor of the Horde! Lok-tar ogar!
Dark Ranger Lyana yells: Kill the traitor--and all who stand with him!

So basically it's clear, he was given a chance to surrender and return to orgimmar. But Zappy boy came in with "not alone." and Saurfang basically took up arms showing more of his betrayal.

- - - Updated - - -

1. Calia was their rightful monarch. Kind of a catch-22 there.
2. They did obey Sylvanas. At least 2 of them. (3 if Elsie, who was ordering them to head to the wall, but may or may not have been moving in that direction at the time of being shot, counts.) Got shot anyway.
3. Pretty much everyone except Parqual who instigated it and Calia who rallied them just seemed panicked. There's a note of several attempting to shield their human family from the onslaught, not realizing they were the target. That would be shielding them as they head towards the keep. Protecting your family isn't treason. You need intent. Not that it matters, as Syl. explicitly says that she executed forsaken that she knew were not traitors in order to snuff out their hope.

I still think that us attempting to protect someone who is innocent, that Sylvanas is paranoid delusional into thinking otherwise, and getting likewise branded a traitor for it and her turning on the player, is a pretty likely scenario to force loyalists over to that side. The problem of that route is said loyalists will immediately twist the universe into whatever Sylvanas says it is.

1) Rightful or not, she was not the one on the throne. Pretender that she is means that she doesn't have the power backing. So those that chose to run to her were traitors to the monarch.
2) They didn't obey. Obeying would be to return on the first horn. Not walk off ignoring it until the execution for traitors squad comes up.
3) Of course they panicked they disobeyed their monarch and listened to the pretender. That is how medieval kingdoms worked and Lordaeron, Stormwind and most of the others in the alliance are basically Medieval european kingdoms set in a fantasy world.