Lor'themar and Jaina Dialogue on Factions Following the Eternal Palace Finale

[Toxuvox]

Horde could had nuked Stormwind also ages ago. Its just bad story writing.
Blizzard keeps creating super weapons and then they forget that they exist and hope the community will forget about them aswell.

Wasn't it already suggested by Blizz (can't remember who exactly) that the massive cannon at Gallywix Pleasure Palace would see some action during this expansion?

[PelinalWhitestrake]

The Ozzymandias plot some attribute to Sylvanas is pretty... dumb

I mean, the planet's dying. We can literally see Azeroth's bleeding out. What better time than this to forget past enmity and focus on healing the planet we ALL live on?

Nah, fuck it. Burn the tree and use the blood from the dying planet to power up weapons to kill each other.
That will SURELY work best

Well she uses the dagger to absorb Nzoth's power and bring the shadowlands with her, which we kill him inside her body, but in the end the Black empire rises again and we are saved by Azeroth herself, and sylvanas is now stuck in the shadowlands because we also discover that Elune is in cahoot with the Death entity, factions dissolve due to it, and void its now fucking shit up in azeroth.

[Feroxxy]

The Ozzymandias plot some attribute to Sylvanas is pretty... dumb

I mean, the planet's dying. We can literally see Azeroth's bleeding out. What better time than this to forget past enmity and focus on healing the planet we ALL live on?

Nah, fuck it. Burn the tree and use the blood from the dying planet to power up weapons to kill each other.
That will SURELY work best

I mean, when has this ever stopped the human race in real life?
This expansion is global warming in a nutshell.

[Maljinwo]

Well she uses the dagger to absorb Nzoth's power and bring the shadowlands with her, which we kill him inside her body, but in the end the Black empire rises again and we are saved by Azeroth herself, and sylvanas is now stuck in the shadowlands because we also discover that Elune is in cahoot with the Death entity, factions dissolve due to it, and void its now fucking shit up in azeroth.

Even if Sylvanas helped us against N'zoth, that doesn't excuse that this war is entirely on her.
Every person she got killed on both sides is one person less to defend Azeroth.

Your theory assumes that Sylvanas somehow has the knowledge AND capacity of absoring an Old God and an entire plane of Existence that is governed by people more powerful than her (Bwonsamdi, The Lich King, Helya, Mueh'zala).
And even if she did... after all the crap she pulled, why would anyone besides Nathanos want to save her?

If we need someone to guide us into the Shadowlands for whatever reason, it's Vol'jin who is actually involved in it.

I mean, when has this ever stopped the human race in real life?
This expansion is global warming in a nutshell.

Global Warming is something that should be addressed. But you don't have a leader going to war to capitalize on its effects against another nation that has agreed to help out the planet after it was invaded by aliens.

[Tarba]

Sylvanas sealed her fate when she burned Teldrassil - she started this, you can only blame her.

Yeah right. Maybe next time we should just try to assassinate the leader of the alliance. And bomb his ship and army when we are in some kind of peace trying to fight a world ending threat like the legion.
It seems that's not really important. And they won't take a grudge on it.

- - - Updated - - -

Sylvanas only "helped" Lor'themar in the Blood Elves so she would have something to hold over Lor'themar's head to force him and the Blood Elves into the Northrend campaign on her behalf, as well. In "Shadow of the Sun" she basically holds the Blood Elves hostage as a means to perpetuate her war against Arthas and the Scourge. There was very little altruism in her aid to the Blood Elves and Lor'themar knows it better than most.

Ho right. I forgot about how lorthemar Bob was completely retarded back then. Let me rephrase the situation.
-hey the horde has to go against arthas. He just attacked us all, is a world ending menace and bloodelves really don't like him. Also, Warchief orders
-Nah I don't want
-you'll go and help or I let you rote here alone.
-whyyyyyyy are you doing this to meeee ? I just want to be protected by the horde! I don't want to help! You are so meaaaan.

Bob was the piece of shit back then. Not Sylvanas.

[Sondrelk]

Wasn't it already suggested by Blizz (can't remember who exactly) that the massive cannon at Gallywix Pleasure Palace would see some action during this expansion?

In hindsight. Knowing now that there will be a Goblin heritage armor quest in 8.2.5. I am going to put money down right now on it being used precisely once, solely for that quest.

[PelinalWhitestrake]

Ah, you mean like Archimonde. Or the Qiraji. Or Naxxramas. Or Illidan. Or Malygos. Or the Lich King. Or Blackwing. Or the Iron Horde. Or the Nightmare. Or Elisande. Or the Legion.
I'm sure we never saw this new concept of "Horde and Alliance should stop to fight among themselves as a new threat rises on the horizon" and as such it'll surely make everyone think and realize it (unlike the fifteen previous times).

- - - Updated - - -


You mean rehashed WARCRAFT 3 concepts ?

Qiraji was mostly the cenarion circle along with the bronze, players were voluntaries, no factions really involved besides Saurfang and Staghelm serving as field marshalls to keep order.
Naxx40 was the Argent Dawn, no Alliance and Horde
Illidan was Shattrath and the Shattered sun
Malygos was the Kirin Tor
Arthas was The Argent Crusade and the Knights of the Ebon blade
Deathwing was Green Jesus, who left the Horde by this time.
The Iron Horde was "Khadgar and the Sunshine band of AU Draenei"

the only AvH influenced conflict was the Siege of Orgrimmar and most of BfA until 8.2.

[Aucald]

Ho right. I forgot about how lorthemar Bob was completely retarded back then. Let me rephrase the situation.
-hey the horde has to go against arthas. He just attacked us all, is a world ending menace and bloodelves really don't like him. Also, Warchief orders
-Nah I don't want
-you'll go and help or I let you rote here alone.
-whyyyyyyy are you doing this to meeee ? I just want to be protected by the horde! I don't want to help! You are so meaaaan.

Bob was the piece of shit back then. Not Sylvanas.

I felt he had a point. The Sin'dorei had lost somewhere around 90% of their people in the Third War, and had just come away from a brutal civil war due to Kael's betrayal to the Legion in which they were forced to kill their former head of state and lost even more of their populace to becoming Felblood or Fel Wretched due to the Legion's corruption. They weren't in any shape to be the vanguard in yet another war right on the heels of that but Sylvanas would have it no other way.

YMMV, of course.

[tromage2]

Well she uses the dagger to absorb Nzoth's power and bring the shadowlands with her, which we kill him inside her body, but in the end the Black empire rises again and we are saved by Azeroth herself, and sylvanas is now stuck in the shadowlands because we also discover that Elune is in cahoot with the Death entity, factions dissolve due to it, and void its now fucking shit up in azeroth.

Uh, maybe it is just me but why would factions dissolve?
Did suddenly history and conflicts get erased from the surface?

Even if the black empire rises then the most logical road would be that both factions shift their main focus to beat them but peacecraft is really not something that would make any sense just because a third player shows up to rival the Horde and Alliance in world domination.

[Tarba]

I felt he had a point. The Sin'dorei had lost somewhere around 90% of their people in the Third War, and had just come away from a brutal civil war due to Kael's betrayal to the Legion in which they were forced to kill their former head of state and lost even more of their populace to becoming Felblood or Fel Wretched due to the Legion's corruption. They weren't in any shape to be the vanguard in yet another war right on the heels of that but Sylvanas would have it no other way.

YMMV, of course.

And orcs were a few of non corrupted orcs Who managed to escape the camps, flee to another land to fight the legion and themselves. Taurens were hunted down by centaurs and fought the legion. Trolls were hunted down by humans and fought the legion. Forsaken were the smallest army you could imagine of guys Who managed to escape the lichking influance, and had to fight the legion, undeads, humains... All these people suffered a shit tone. Still, when the horde need you to fight to save the world, and your own people you send something to fight. You don't decide suddenly to just keep the protection of the horde to sit on your ass

[Aucald]

And orcs were a few of non corrupted orcs Who managed to escape the camps, flee to another land to fight the legion and themselves. Taurens were hunted down by centaurs and fought the legion. Trolls were hunted down by humans and fought the legion. Forsaken were the smallest army you could imagine of guys Who managed to escape the lichking influance, and had to fight the legion, undeads, humains... All these people suffered a shit tone. Still, when the horde need you to fight to save the world, and your own people you send something to fight. You don't decide suddenly to just keep the protection of the horde to sit on your ass

The Orcs didn't have a choice, nor did the Tauren, or the Trolls - the Forsaken also did nothing to contend with the Lich King until the rest of the Horde was ready to bring the fight to him in the lead-up into WotLK. I also doubt the Blood Elves just wanted to "sit on their ass," as it were; they were simply spread thin and nearly exhausted as a race after two brutal wars in which they were brought to the brink of extinction. That's a pretty huge blow to a people, after all, so a brief respite wouldn't be that out of question. The Tauren and Trolls were also given the needed time to settle down and build Thunder Bluff as well as Sen'jin Village, as well, and I would say neither of those groups had been quite as decimated as the Blood Elves post-TBC.

[TigTone]

Keep telling yourself that. xD

I’ll make it clear I’m not for Slyvanas. I’m not a fan of the direction of her character it’s TOO self serving. But they might as well as go all the way and end the expansion with her wining and it leading into the next one.

[PelinalWhitestrake]

Uh, maybe it is just me but why would factions dissolve?
Did suddenly history and conflicts get erased from the surface?

Even if the black empire rises then the most logical road would be that both factions shift their main focus to beat them but peacecraft is really not something that would make any sense just because a third player shows up to rival the Horde and Alliance in world domination.

Remember what she said about the eternal cycle of Hatred created by alliances and how this shit is fucking with the planet, and what everyone trully forgot about it in the BfA intro?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jSJr3dXZfcg
Now use this phrase and remember the Warcraft 3 Ending with Medivh's last words.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUiHdf5sOsk

it doesn't take too long to discover that Faction conflict FUCKED Azeroth over the years, and its time to everyone to stop with this shit before the void takes over.

[tromage2]

it doesn't take too long to discover that Faction conflict FUCKED Azeroth over the years, and its time to everyone to stop with this shit before the void takes over.

Without the factions and making sure we have the strongest soldiers we would now be slaves of the demons.
No conflict means no need to get the best out of yourself what makes everybody weaker and lazier.

[Combatbutler]

You don't decide suddenly to just keep the protection of the horde to sit on your ass

The problem was they had done so much prior to this situation, that they were on the brink of collapse due to pushing their armies to the limit. They had the scourge and Amani to contend with constantly, they had conquered Outland and invaded Northrend just a few years prior and now had a civil war on their hand that literally just ended with many of their troops still injured and were told to march on immediately.

It is quite easy to see both sides of the argument.

[Rhlor]

Well, its no surprise that blizzard may REALLY want to dissolve factions and go back to the Vanilla-Warcraft 3 way of storytelling for each Race and its allies

Stories will now be focused on it instead of Factions, "alliance and horde" may exist but its now gone in terms of history, though the alliances still exists.

-Orcs(Taurens, Orcs, Goblins, Mag'har and Trolls+Zandalari, all of them trying to rebuild once more what they lost and stay away from the old ways)
-Night Elves(Tyrande is back to her ol Xenophobe self of War 3, though she's now ally with the Worgen, she now distrusts the humans of Stormwind, and her race is now divided after the events of teldrasil Dunmer-ish revolution incoming, Now the Nightborne, Azsuna elves, and the Highborne has come to help them to make amends, though distrust still exists.)
-Humans(Dwarves, Gnomes/Mechagnomes, Draenei, Humans, with the alliance gone the friendships still exists, but now they have new problems, Draenei and lightforge are still getting along Yrel may pop up with evil lightforged, Dwarves are still dealing with the events of BfA, Gnomes and Mechagnomes are working to deal with Gnomeregan, Humans now has to deal with Stromguarde and Kul tiras friendship, and now their borders are full of rebellions and Void shenanigans)
-Undead(Hated by everyone and their mothers, now they need to work by themselves like in the past, Someone may even lend a hand in helping them Bolvar becomes the benefactor of the forsaken now that sylvanas is gone, Lightforge undead are also part of it, some forsaken sees it as a blessing, some sees as a curse worse than being dead)
-Blood Elves(With the horde gone, Void and High elves are accepted once more in Silvermoon, as they rebuild the entire place, but mistrust exists between all 3 races, now with the void stuff, some blood elves fears them, others learn the ways of the void without becoming one, the story may be focused on fix that and make all of the elves united once more.
-Pandarens(back to neutrality, they are now friends with the vulpera, but the War changed the pandaren society and now they have to deal with a new reality, and remember what they really are)

Conflicts may continue on, but its back to race wars.



Well the AMA leak stats that all of it is a Ozzymandias plan made by Bolvar and hers, which reflects to her 1st lines during the BfA intro, which is a cycle that must end.

the high elves are allowed to enter quelthalas we see many high elves in the questline queldelar and lorthemar lets go through the sunwell in the quest introduction nightborne. the void elves are exiled not because they are part of the alliance but because their void magic is a danger to the sunwell and the survival of the blood elves!

if you played the side of the horde you will see that blood elves and nightborne get along very well and thalyssra has lorthemar in very high esteem. when the factions finish it is clear that suramar and quelthalas will remain together

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah right. Maybe next time we should just try to assassinate the leader of the alliance. And bomb his ship and army when we are in some kind of peace trying to fight a world ending threat like the legion.
It seems that's not really important. And they won't take a grudge on it.

- - - Updated - - -



Ho right. I forgot about how lorthemar Bob was completely retarded back then. Let me rephrase the situation.
-hey the horde has to go against arthas. He just attacked us all, is a world ending menace and bloodelves really don't like him. Also, Warchief orders
-Nah I don't want
-you'll go and help or I let you rote here alone.
-whyyyyyyy are you doing this to meeee ? I just want to be protected by the horde! I don't want to help! You are so meaaaan.

Bob was the piece of shit back then. Not Sylvanas.

quelthalas had gone through a civil war for a few months and the blood elves were very weak. lorthemar's job is to protect his people not send them to die when they are just recovering after a war

[Gorsameth]

Without the factions and making sure we have the strongest soldiers we would now be slaves of the demons.
No conflict means no need to get the best out of yourself what makes everybody weaker and lazier.

Really?

The conflicts against Elementals, Dragons, Old gods and Undead for decades did nothing to strengthen Azeroth's armies. But Horde and Alliance, they kept us strong?
bullshit.

Azeroth is beset by a world ending threat every few years, we won't need faction conflicts depleting our armies to remain strong.

[Akka]

Qiraji was mostly the cenarion circle along with the bronze, players were voluntaries, no factions really involved besides Saurfang and Staghelm serving as field marshalls to keep order.
Naxx40 was the Argent Dawn, no Alliance and Horde
Illidan was Shattrath and the Shattered sun
Malygos was the Kirin Tor
Arthas was The Argent Crusade and the Knights of the Ebon blade
Deathwing was Green Jesus, who left the Horde by this time.
The Iron Horde was "Khadgar and the Sunshine band of AU Draenei"

That's some heavy filtering here. In all cases, the whole "we should unite to fight a common foe" was a theme throughout the fight, with friction and skirmirshes on the fringe to justify continued PvP. Point is, this speech about "let's stop fighting and unite" has been reused every other patch since all the way from Warcraft III.

[Shaetha]

That's some heavy filtering here. In all cases, the whole "we should unite to fight a common foe" was a theme throughout the fight, with friction and skirmirshes on the fringe to justify continued PvP. Point is, this speech about "let's stop fighting and unite" has been reused every other patch since all the way from Warcraft III.

I feel like at this point the simple choice of team has escalated to Philly sports fan levels.

[Verdugo]

I felt he had a point. The Sin'dorei had lost somewhere around 90% of their people in the Third War, and had just come away from a brutal civil war due to Kael's betrayal to the Legion in which they were forced to kill their former head of state and lost even more of their populace to becoming Felblood or Fel Wretched due to the Legion's corruption. They weren't in any shape to be the vanguard in yet another war right on the heels of that but Sylvanas would have it no other way.

YMMV, of course.

You mean Thrall. He was the one that ordered the Horde to invade Northrend. Sylvanas was just spreading his word to Silvermoon.