Tanking/Healing Stress is Tough

[Faroth]

I also find on smaller pull runs, there's a bit of a happy medium. If you have a pack of 3 and the first 2 are down, check your healer's mana when the last mob is about halfway dead. If they're good, head for the second group. That last mob usually won't survive the run to the next pack and you pick them up for the next bunch of 3 (or whatever the actual number is).

It doesn't put EVERYTHING beating on the tank at once for the healer to keep up with and it keeps the momentum going. I've utilized this on a few occasions and it's gone pretty smoothly.

[La]

Um, what? I'm sorry. Healers are expected to put in more effort than anyone else in your mind? Not only do they have to know everything the boss does(which DPS doesn't) but they have to watch 4-8 extra health bars and move targeting around between enemies and player(which no one else has to do.) Oh, and you have to manage an additional resource while doing all that, which no one has to do. It's baseline far more difficult than any tank or DPS.

I don't think a lot of people realize just how much more difficult being expected to DPS as well makes healing. I don't hate you for expecting me to DPS. I might even have done it anyway when I felt stable enough. I hate the community for making me feel like I have to DPS.

Sounds more to me like you aren't that great at healing, or you aren't comfortable enough with it. You talk a lot about how difficult it is and how easy everything else is, but that both an ignorant view and simply just not true. If you're a pro-active SCH and you're doing the hardest content, then it can be a lot to track when it comes to what mechanics you should ST shield someone, but in general boss mechanics are all pre-determined, at set times, and they're all slow enough you can prep for it when you see the cast. It isn't hard, in fact it's slow and clunky. Tanking in raids is probably the easiest thing to do, since you only tank swap + hit a CD for busters.

You aren't going to wall to wall pull some dungeons because some dungeons are fucking hard to wall to wall, and you especially don't do it if your gear is shit. But assuming the heals, tank and DPS are all competent, wall to wall pulls in any dungeon are easy enough, because they all have the tools to handle them. One of the goals as a tank or a healer for you is to push yourself to see your limits, and to improve, and you'll never do that if you just don't do the things that other tanks and healers do, it's just..more obvious when you can't than a shit dps.

[tikcol]

FF14 is very noob friendly. Sometimes it bothers me a bit just how friendly people are in general towards repeat failures but I always try to hold myself from saying anything. It's the game I play to chill from time to time so I always try to calm myself before saying anything to the dude that failed 3+ times in the same mechanic.

This also creates a snowflake friendly environment though, where pointing out the most simple thing to someone results in them starting to play out of spite instead of trying to improve. You need to learn to deal with criticism and even learning to deal with rude behavior is something necessary if you're connected to the internet.

[Protocoaxke]

It's just tunnel vision, everyone does it time to time, but most people aren't actually good at games or have the attention span to do a rotation and dodge mechanics. The blaming others is just projection lol.

Self Projections...i havnt thought of it that way, adding that insult to my comebacks when people stand in Bad and Die.

it reminds me of the Movie Tommy Boy when Chris Farley rips off the door but leaves it for David Spade to pull off ----" Whatch ya do?!?!?" - DPS who die to fire lol

[Shaetha]

Sounds more to me like you aren't that great at healing, or you aren't comfortable enough with it. You talk a lot about how difficult it is and how easy everything else is, but that both an ignorant view and simply just not true. If you're a pro-active SCH and you're doing the hardest content, then it can be a lot to track when it comes to what mechanics you should ST shield someone, but in general boss mechanics are all pre-determined, at set times, and they're all slow enough you can prep for it when you see the cast. It isn't hard, in fact it's slow and clunky. Tanking in raids is probably the easiest thing to do, since you only tank swap + hit a CD for busters.

You aren't going to wall to wall pull some dungeons because some dungeons are fucking hard to wall to wall, and you especially don't do it if your gear is shit. But assuming the heals, tank and DPS are all competent, wall to wall pulls in any dungeon are easy enough, because they all have the tools to handle them. One of the goals as a tank or a healer for you is to push yourself to see your limits, and to improve, and you'll never do that if you just don't do the things that other tanks and healers do, it's just..more obvious when you can't than a shit dps.

I'm not that great at healing because I recognize it's a harder job? Nothing you've said refutes that point, however. Everyone has abilities. Everyone has to watch the enemies. Only a healer has to watch the other players' health bars and switch off the enemies. The only person the size of a pull affects is the healer. A tank does the same thing. A DPS does the same thing.

As I said in my post, my issue is I resent feeling like i'm expected to try harder than anyone else. Not that people are actually saying this, but that's what I feel.

[Katchii]

I'm not that great at healing because I recognize it's a harder job? Nothing you've said refutes that point, however. Everyone has abilities. Everyone has to watch the enemies. Only a healer has to watch the other players' health bars and switch off the enemies. The only person the size of a pull affects is the healer. A tank does the same thing. A DPS does the same thing.

As I said in my post, my issue is I resent feeling like i'm expected to try harder than anyone else. Not that people are actually saying this, but that's what I feel.

You resent the job for being what it is? Being a healer has always entailed having a little more responsibility than the other roles, in practice. To further your point, a healer does the same thing on large pulls as they do on small pulls...they keep the group alive. That's their primary goal, anything else is icing on the cake. That said, what everyone else is implying is that if you are not required, at the time, to be doing your PRIMARY role of healing because there's no healing needed...do some damage. You wouldn't like a tank that just sat there doing nothing after getting aggro, or a DPS sitting there doing nothing after they kill "their" add right?

Same principal.

[Shaetha]

You resent the job for being what it is? Being a healer has always entailed having a little more responsibility than the other roles, in practice. To further your point, a healer does the same thing on large pulls as they do on small pulls...they keep the group alive. That's their primary goal, anything else is icing on the cake. That said, what everyone else is implying is that if you are not required, at the time, to be doing your PRIMARY role of healing because there's no healing needed...do some damage. You wouldn't like a tank that just sat there doing nothing after getting aggro, or a DPS sitting there doing nothing after they kill "their" add right?

Same principal.

First of all, no, a healer doesn't do the same things. You have to use more and different abilities. DPS and tanks don't change what buttons they use. DPS and tanks never target anything but enemies in a game where retargeting specific targets is way more awkward than it needs to be. Healer's the only role that's more difficult in a bigger pull.

"their add" is not a concept outside edge cases where you just have to kill an add to get out of a penalty box.(o5, for example)
"Getting aggro" is not a job that ends, so you continue doing it until there is nothing else to get aggro on.
Doing more than keeping the group alive is not icing on the cake. It's expected you DPS as well, like even you, yourself state in this post I'm replying to.

Besides, I'm just stating how I feel about it. I understand there's a group of people in the FFXIV community that thinks the devs can do no wrong(every game has it. It's extremely grating in Warframe, for example), but I have the right to complain about things I don't like about it in a discussion forum about that exact topic. That doesn't make me bad at the game. It just makes me not want to play the game, which makes a huge problem for me.

And no, I resent feeling like I'm expected to put in more effort than anyone else in the group as a healer. I've played all 3 roles. Tank is incredibly easy. DPS is more difficult and runs up against different problems, but neither of them are expected to go above and beyond their job like healers are. SE even removed most targeted buffs from DPS and Tanks outside the ones that are directly related to the role.

I signed up to heal because healing was the only thing that didn't run up against the "too many buttons" weaponskill users have and the super clunky ogcd ability problem casters have, so yes, having to DPS does make the game bad. Although I have been enjoying having to actually heal more in ShB, but I fear that will go away as people start to overgear stuff more and more..

[RohanV]

From a mechanical standpoint, healing in FFXIV would be greatly improved if we had dual targets, one friendly target and one hostile target. Like Warhammer Online did. It would reduce the amount of target switching necessary, and also allow the healer to watch boss cast bars like everyone else in the party.

[Faroth]

From a mechanical standpoint, healing in FFXIV would be greatly improved if we had dual targets, one friendly target and one hostile target. Like Warhammer Online did. It would reduce the amount of target switching necessary, and also allow the healer to watch boss cast bars like everyone else in the party.

For bosses, Focus target is an option for watching boss cast bars. Hover over macros also don't require you to actually switch targets from the boss to who you're healing (if you're on PC). I can't imagine how people heal on controllers, but I know some do just fine.
Doesn't work so much on trash packs, of course.

[Katchii]

First of all, no, a healer doesn't do the same things. You have to use more and different abilities. DPS and tanks don't change what buttons they use. DPS and tanks never target anything but enemies in a game where retargeting specific targets is way more awkward than it needs to be. Healer's the only role that's more difficult in a bigger pull.

If by more difficult, you mean more buttons sure. But the concept is the same. More targets to do stuff to = more buttons to push to get the job done.

DPS and Tanks also do change what buttons they push in large pulls vs small pulls. Large pulls are almost exclusively AoE until a certain point and then focus each one down, or vice versa if there's a big hitting mob in the mix. But it's the same with Healing on large pulls. You heal more at the start while there's more enemies and then you trickle down to fewer heals as less damage is coming in.

"their add" is not a concept outside edge cases where you just have to kill an add to get out of a penalty box.(o5, for example) "Getting aggro" is not a job that ends, so you continue doing it until there is nothing else to get aggro on.
Doing more than keeping the group alive is not icing on the cake. It's expected you DPS as well, like even you, yourself state in this post I'm replying to.

It was to make a point about the amount of effort being put in by the player, that's all. If no healing is needed and the healer just stands there, that would be equivalent to a tank only pushing enough buttons to keep aggro which is VERY few this expansion or a DPS only kill one of the mobs in a pack or something.

I don't want to say that Healers are expected to DPS because that's really not what the argument is about, it's about effort. If there's no effort necessary on the healers part to actually be healing at that point in time what else could you be doing at the time to contribute to the group? If the only you're able to do at any point in time is healing, no one is going to bat an eye at you for it because you're putting in effort and actively contributing to the group. Anyone who is going to try and argue that it's OK for them to literally be doing nothing if no healing is necessary are lazy shits and should be called out for it.

Besides, I'm just stating how I feel about it. I understand there's a group of people in the FFXIV community that thinks the devs can do no wrong(every game has it. It's extremely grating in Warframe, for example), but I have the right to complain about things I don't like about it in a discussion forum about that exact topic. That doesn't make me bad at the game. It just makes me not want to play the game, which makes a huge problem for me.

While you have a fair point, you're complaining about something that's been a somewhat integral part of what it means to be a healer since the healer class was invented.

And no, I resent feeling like I'm expected to put in more effort than anyone else in the group as a healer. I've played all 3 roles. Tank is incredibly easy. DPS is more difficult and runs up against different problems, but neither of them are expected to go above and beyond their job like healers are. SE even removed most targeted buffs from DPS and Tanks outside the ones that are directly related to the role.

Straight forward is the term I think you're looking for here. Not easier, but I guess they're somewhat tied together. Tanks and DPS are very straight forward, but tanks have things a little more so because many times they don't have to deal with additional mechanics that DPS do. In many encounters, tanks and DPS really do the same thing, they just target enemies and kill them as fast as possible taking priority into account but that's not SUPER critical except in a few cases.

Healers job is straight forward in principal but not in practice because they are watching different targets, the players, who don't all play the same, have the same gear, have the same skill, etc... so what they do changes constantly based on the player performance. The number and types of abilities you use in each encounter/dungeon can change dramatically because of this, but you're expected to do the same thing every time; keep the group alive.

I signed up to heal because healing was the only thing that didn't run up against the "too many buttons" weaponskill users have and the super clunky ogcd ability problem casters have, so yes, having to DPS does make the game bad. Although I have been enjoying having to actually heal more in ShB, but I fear that will go away as people start to overgear stuff more and more..

Your complaint seems to be stemming from you choosing a healer because it didn't have as many buttons as some of the other classes and now you're complaining that for a healer to contribute the same amount of effort to a group they have to push a similar amount of buttons as every other class. This is honestly just not a complaint I can take seriously and just sounds like whining.

Remember, it's effort that's being measured and commented on here not specifically Healer DPS. No one is going to get mad at you not DPS'ing if you're having to heal full time to keep the group alive (though I'm sure you will get comments on how you could make changes so you could DPS as well as heal if you're spamming the same heal over and over, but that's a different discussion).

One other thing to comment on is that the Healers primary role is NOT to heal, it's to keep the group alive. This goal can obviously be achieved by casting healing spells, but it can also be achieved by killing mobs faster so less damage is outgoing and therefore less healing is needed, it can be accomplished by stunning or sleeping mobs to prevent damage, it can be achieved by shielding and can even be achieved by letting someone die. The group surviving takes priority over any individual, so letting someone die so you can keep the group alive is a viable way to fulfill your role.

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For bosses, Focus target is an option for watching boss cast bars. Hover over macros also don't require you to actually switch targets from the boss to who you're healing (if you're on PC). I can't imagine how people heal on controllers, but I know some do just fine.
Doesn't work so much on trash packs, of course.

I used to do this, but it honestly just got to be more effort and the one time it failed on me made me just learn how to do it with no macros and using the base UI. So I manually pick and click/choose targets to cast on and use the enemy enmity list to select the mobs I choose to attack which are usually just the one with the lowest HP unless it's the boss, in which case I just tab target. If I'm casting AoE though I just select whatever and cast on it so that it hits everything, unless I'm WHM in which case I just run into the center of the pack and cast Holy.

This way the skill set translates directly into every MMO I play,without having to fuddle with macros or whatever. Yeah, it's a bit more cumbersome, but it works just fine for me.

[Lazuli]

Self Projections...i havnt thought of it that way, adding that insult to my comebacks when people stand in Bad and Die.

it reminds me of the Movie Tommy Boy when Chris Farley rips off the door but leaves it for David Spade to pull off ----" Whatch ya do?!?!?" - DPS who die to fire lol

I was tanking titania and thought wow this group is trash couldn't get adds everything was fucking up then the tank whispered me to turn grit on. GG. I love how I can turn aggro off and on but damn it's like getting used to turning WoW pet taunt off all over again. Great example of putting blame on others LOL.

That fight really taught me how to main and off tank tho, now I change grit stance constantly depending on the situation.

<3 tommy boy

[Lynarii]

Difficulty is what you make of it in a lot of ways.

I could make the argument that tanking is harder than healing on large pulls. As a tank, if I pull three packs, the healer can probably just target me and chain heals and be fairly confident that's what they SHOULD be doing in that situation. If I do the first pull in Bardam's Mettle all the way to the first wall, I'm probably gonna die if the healer swaps off of me for even a single cast. In the meantime, pretty much every enemy ability out there includes me in the AOE, and while normally they're not too threatening to me, in a big pull scenario any unnecessary incoming damage can be fatal so I have to be dodging like a madwoman for most of the pull. And heaven forbid I misjudge a cooldown.

Is this take on a large pull any more or less valid than people who believe that healing it is the hardest? Well... no. A lot of it depends on what you're individually best at. I've known healers who were amazing at their job and could target swap and keep on top of everything no problem play tank and struggle mightily to dodge all the crap that gets thrown at them. Whereas I don't heal because I'm not very good at the target swapping, but I can dance on a pixel and find avoiding the AOEs while tanking to be an entertaining part of my job.

The only objective truth is that BLMs have it easiest on large dungeon pulls.

[Kyriani]

Just to comment on healers having to change targets. You don't necessarily have to.

I main WHM and have a hidden action bar with all my healing spells as mouse over macros and keybound. Basically it lets me heal in FFXIV as I did in WoW using the Clique addon. Being able to mouse over heal improves my reaction time dramatically and it allows me to keep bosses targeted while healing.

[Remilia]

For bosses, Focus target is an option for watching boss cast bars. Hover over macros also don't require you to actually switch targets from the boss to who you're healing (if you're on PC). I can't imagine how people heal on controllers, but I know some do just fine.
Doesn't work so much on trash packs, of course.

Not too bad on a controller. I can probably make some little video with button presses for a boss or something if you're curious. Personally prefer healing on a controller.

[Byleth]

Im going to generalize here .

I feel the BIGGEST problem for Hardmode and up is DPS stand in s**t ALL the time.

"Stand in the fire, DPS higher" - Is something I've actually heard people say in EX.

What I would love meters to show, as most people I know run one, is how much strain you put on your tank/heals to achieve your orange parse.

[Soluna]

So I first started MMOs that followed the trinity with WoW. My first class was a Paladin during vanilla. Playing a pally back then meant you were holy or doing PVP. I found healing to be pretty fun and managed to make it all the way to a naxx clear. At that point though, I began to find healing back then to be rather stressful. Make a single mistake, and the raid leader would set guildies aside and be known for cussing folks out privately.

Eventually, I went DPS with DK and went off to make a server first clear of Icecrown before I hit the WoW apathy wall. Fast forward today and I'm now an avid player of FFXIV. Started off as a DRG, then went SAM in SB. About halfway through, I decided to try tanking as DRK to avoid the long queues. With the release of SHB, I've cleared Titania EX as GNB and I'm a bit conflicted the about continuing to play the role, let alone the game.

The reason so is because I notice healers seem to be under some pressure with the changes. Make one mistake and the DPS(not all, plenty y'all cool) FREAKS out every other instance or so. Same goes for me. I've made a flub here and there due to being tired or distracted by reality, but I'm a competent tank. FFXIV is known for having a pretty chill community, but since the expansion, I've noticed some seriously toxic folks.

What with a lot of WoW refugees being a thing, and the game pushing 16 million, I'm wondering if a lot of those refugees are bringing some of the toxicity that has existed in WoW into the player base, or is it always like this when a new expansion drops? I'm not some insecure mofo who can't take criticism, but when people start sending tells wishing death to my firstborns, and being stabbed with a linoleum knife, that kinda wears on you after awhile.

So what y'all think? Should I get used to tanking being a choice to be a proper hardcore raider, or will things cool off once things start to settle with the expansion?

How can you want to become a hardcore raider, and find toxicity wearing you off? These contradict each other. The higher you go, the more demanding, and sometimes even rude people get.

People will always critisize you for failing during EX content and above, and it's the same for any game. You might find their attitude rude, but the person failing is also rude, because they waste everyone's time. However, PUGs are always very easy to 'break' due to some silly mistakes. It sucks that your healer left after 2 tries, but maybe they were spending the entire day yesterday trying to kill Titania EX, and they ended up getting to 5%, after like 6-7 hours of PF, and then they join the group you are in, see your PUG fail 2 times at 70-50%, and just quit cause they don't wanna redo all this.

I'd suggest getting a static, people are a lot more chill there if you can be consistent with your performance. The key word here though is consistency.

[Wrecktangle]

I also find on smaller pull runs, there's a bit of a happy medium. If you have a pack of 3 and the first 2 are down, check your healer's mana when the last mob is about halfway dead. If they're good, head for the second group. That last mob usually won't survive the run to the next pack and you pick them up for the next bunch of 3 (or whatever the actual number is).

It doesn't put EVERYTHING beating on the tank at once for the healer to keep up with and it keeps the momentum going. I've utilized this on a few occasions and it's gone pretty smoothly.

This is actually super annoying for melee DPS though, but it's not a bad compromise if you're into compromising sub-optimal habits.

Only a healer has to watch the other players' health bars and switch off the enemies. The only person the size of a pull affects is the healer. A tank does the same thing. A DPS does the same thing.

As I said in my post, my issue is I resent feeling like i'm expected to try harder than anyone else. Not that people are actually saying this, but that's what I feel.

That's not entirely true as there are cases where both tanks and DPS have utility that requires hard targeting friendly targets. They're not nearly as common/frequent as a healer has to, but the point still stands.

Secondly - If you're going to marginalize the Tank & DPS's experience in large vs. small pulls, then we're going to marginalize the healers. You have to do the same thing, keep the group alive, but that's such a generic non-answer (like your point) that it's disrespectful to the spirit of the discussion.

So with that out of the way, a tank pulling one group at a time doesn't need to time cooldowns, or even use them at all. Positioning is irrelevant in small pulls as well. Everyone has to do more in larger pulls, that's really an undeniable fact. If you're subjecting yourself to some self-perceived optimization standards (kudos to you btw, truly), you have to understand that there are equivalent effort optimizations those other roles can do as well. If you do not understand that then you don't know those roles as well as you claim you do.

First of all, no, a healer doesn't do the same things. You have to use more and different abilities. DPS and tanks don't change what buttons they use.

What buttons are you using in large pulls that you aren't in small? You're still healing and using oGCD heals. You're still (hopefully) fitting in DPS spells, so what's actually different? Actually qualify this with genuine examples.

"Getting aggro" is not a job that ends, so you continue doing it until there is nothing else to get aggro on.
Doing more than keeping the group alive is not icing on the cake. It's expected you DPS as well

Technically it could be if you wanted to push the agenda further. Aggro is a lot like HP. Anything over the minimum threshhold (aka the highest value a party member has is wasted/superfluous, but currently no opportunity cost so irrelevant). If you're argument is that a tanks job is to hold aggro (like you're proposing a healers is to just heal) then theoretically my responsibility ends at simply gaining and maintaining aggro. That might simply require pushing a singular button every 30s or so. Would you be ok with a tank doing that? I wouldn't. Just like I'm not ok with a healer or a DPS doing it. Again, equivalent effort.

No, it's expected to always be casting (known as ABC). If there is no healing necessary, you should be casting a DPS spell.

Besides, I'm just stating how I feel about it. I understand there's a group of people in the FFXIV community that thinks the devs can do no wrong(every game has it. It's extremely grating in Warframe, for example), but I have the right to complain about things I don't like about it in a discussion forum about that exact topic. That doesn't make me bad at the game. It just makes me not want to play the game, which makes a huge problem for me.

And no, I resent feeling like I'm expected to put in more effort than anyone else in the group as a healer. I've played all 3 roles. Tank is incredibly easy. DPS is more difficult and runs up against different problems, but neither of them are expected to go above and beyond their job like healers are. SE even removed most targeted buffs from DPS and Tanks outside the ones that are directly related to the role.

Healing is also incredibly easy if you don't optimize either. It's why there's LITERAL memes about it. Did you ever hear of the SCH fairy healing entire dungeons while they watched netflix? Did you ever hear of the healer who doesn't DPS is only active like 13-20% of dungeon (by CPM)?

I fully support you sharing your feelings, but be open to others POVs, there's a lot of good insight coming your way and you're dismissing it without looking at it rationally and logically IMO.

I signed up to heal because healing was the only thing that didn't run up against the "too many buttons" weaponskill users have and the super clunky ogcd ability problem casters have, so yes, having to DPS does make the game bad. Although I have been enjoying having to actually heal more in ShB, but I fear that will go away as people start to overgear stuff more and more..

That's a fair criticism to other jobs and one that I personally share with regards to the game.

From a mechanical standpoint, healing in FFXIV would be greatly improved if we had dual targets, one friendly target and one hostile target. Like Warhammer Online did. It would reduce the amount of target switching necessary, and also allow the healer to watch boss cast bars like everyone else in the party.

I don't quite understand what you mean by this.

"Stand in the fire, DPS higher" - Is something I've actually heard people say in EX.

What I would love meters to show, as most people I know run one, is how much strain you put on your tank/heals to achieve your orange parse.

2 things:

• Meters do show this if you know how to read ACT or logs.
• Yes. We do this all the time because it is optimal from both a healing and damage standpoint. A great example of this is Titania EX Shiva circles. Just leave her and middle and soak the one icicle and vuln stack, the outgoing damage for the next 60s is so minimal and can be healed with oGCDs trivially, and the incoming DPS to the boss shortens the encounter, thus reducing incoming damage further.

How can you want to become a hardcore raider, and find toxicity wearing you off? These contradict each other. The higher you go, the more demanding, and sometimes even rude people get.

People will always critisize you for failing during EX content and above, and it's the same for any game. You might find their attitude rude, but the person failing is also rude, because they waste everyone's time.

This isn't entirely accurate coming from the perspective of someone who's raided at the highest levels in WoW and in FF14. I've had casual guilds that were more rude etc. than top guilds. In fact, it's almost universally so in my anecdotal experience.

The trick to high end content (IN ANY GAME) is accountability. If you take responsibility for your failures people will respect you more and treat you fairly. I've personally done this and witnessed it in FF14 countless times.

We would take the player with 70% logs who wanted to be there, listened and implemented feedback over the person with 90% logs who was phoning it in regardless of performance because they're not only more likely to be a problem when they DO make a mistake (and everyone does eventually), but they're also more likely to jump ship (fuck recruiting).

[Faroth]

This is actually super annoying for melee DPS though, but it's not a bad compromise if you're into compromising sub-optimal habits.

So you're saying every tank should always pull everything even when the healer can't keep up or asks for smaller pulls?
Or are you saying it should be one group at a time until completely killed in that spot before moving to the next?

I primarily play melee DPS. Monk, then NIN in ARR, Ninja in HW, SAM in SB & ShB.
I'm the only melee in 9 out of 10 Trials and Normal raids and probably 9.95 times in dungeons......hell only one of a couple across 3 Alliance groups fairly often. It's really not that big a deal for one single enemy at half HP to get out of range running to the next group. It's EXTREMELY negligible.

What is the sub-optimal habit of making a run less stressful on the healer per their request?

[Katchii]

This isn't entirely accurate coming from the perspective of someone who's raided at the highest levels in WoW and in FF14. I've had casual guilds that were more rude etc. than top guilds. In fact, it's almost universally so in my anecdotal experience.

The trick to high end content (IN ANY GAME) is accountability. If you take responsibility for your failures people will respect you more and treat you fairly. I've personally done this and witnessed it in FF14 countless times.

We would take the player with 70% logs who wanted to be there, listened and implemented feedback over the person with 90% logs who was phoning it in regardless of performance because they're not only more likely to be a problem when they DO make a mistake (and everyone does eventually), but they're also more likely to jump ship (fuck recruiting).

To make it short; doing higher end content (or any kind of content really) all with like minded, mature, accountable individuals is extremely rewarding. Based on the few times I've run with you, you run in a circle of people like this, which SIGNIFICANTLY improves your enjoyment of the content. I've enjoyed myself every time and felt very little if any stress/ pressure to perform outside of just doing my best and learning the fight...which is exactly why I'm there and the folks in the group are more than willing to provide feedback and help. It's win-win in this kind of situation.

My experience, for the vast majority of my MMO gaming career, has been PUGs simply because of an inability to commit to any set schedule. PUGging and random match making for the high end content in MMO's is a truly awful experience, which is constantly reiterated in content like LFR in WoW, the 24 man content in FFXIV and anything else in Duty Finder. The kinds of people that are patient, willing to help, mature, communicative and accountable are very rare in my experience.

You get two VERY different gaming experiences in those two crowds.

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It's really not that big a deal for one single enemy at half HP to get out of range running to the next group. It's EXTREMELY negligible.

Negligible, yes, but still annoying I'm sure since it's nearly impossible for a melee job to do anything to a mob actively moving away from them.

I agree with you though, even if it doesn't die on the way to the next pack it will die so quickly once everyone stops again it would be negligible if the idea is to take out the packs piece meal instead of all at once, because you're still removing 75%+ of each pack before moving on to the next which significantly reduces the incoming damage and therefore healer stress, which was the point of the recommendation.

[Faroth]

Negligible, yes, but still annoying I'm sure since it's nearly impossible for a melee job to do anything to a mob actively moving away from them.

I agree with you though, even if it doesn't die on the way to the next pack it will die so quickly once everyone stops again it would be negligible if the idea is to take out the packs piece meal instead of all at once, because you're still removing 75%+ of each pack before moving on to the next which significantly reduces the incoming damage and therefore healer stress, which was the point of the recommendation.

Exactly. You're just running to the next group and resuming DPS. It's kind of annoying that you can be on the mob's butt and still told you're out of range, or that somehow the tank and mobs seem to be able to outrun you without sprint, but really it's the same time you'd spend running from point A to B regardless. You're just doing the final 50% damage upon arrival instead of prior to departure. Sometimes DoTs from the healer and dps do most of the job during the trip anyway.