Biden holds big lead over 2020 Democrats in two new national polls

[tyrlaan]

Whoever excites people most to show up to vote is the number 1 factor. There are other factors of course, but that is the biggest. I almost wish we'd just have the DNC pick candidates instead of the primary system. The kind of person who votes in a primary will be voting in the national election. They are a poor judge of electibility.

Of course, the DNC is corrupt like any big organization is, and that can't be trusted either. It's really just a coin flip how things turn out. Great society.

Well the DNC did curtail the potency of superdelegates quite significantly this time around, though really they should just go away.

I don't have an issue with the primary process*, but I do have an issue with everyone with a D next to their name deciding that this election is the one they should use to boost their popularity. I mean, you can easily cull the candidates down to 10 without blinking an eye and not lose any serious contender.

*My actual issue with the primary process is how it reinforces the impenetrability of the two-party system. We are well past the point of needing more than just Democrats and Republicans but the amount of work needed to get another party up to a level playing field is Herculean.

[Fugus]

Ok, says Biden has 33% and he is basically going on name recognition alone.

Sanders and Warren both combine to 34% while having MASSIVE overlap and being popular on policy.

[Elegiac]

Ok, says Biden has 33% and he is basically going on name recognition alone.

Sanders and Warren both combine to 34% while having MASSIVE overlap and being popular on policy.

I've already posted in several threads why this isn't true.

Also; the Bernie camp talking about name recognition when polling around 15% at 100% name recognition is throwing stones in a glass house.

[Hobb]

Ok, says Biden has 33% and he is basically going on name recognition alone.

Sanders and Warren both combine to 34% while having MASSIVE overlap and being popular on policy.

Not really true, Biden's policies are rather popular. Unless your saying your against:

1) increasing min wage to $15.
2) Increasing subsidies to families that qualify for Obamacare to help lower the cost. While creating a government ran insurance company to compete against private insurance providers to help control cost.
3) Do away with Trump's failed tax cuts, while increasing taxes on the wealthy to 39% and corporate tax from 21% to 28%. To help pay for the 2nd line item.
4) Free Community College, and assistance with student loans.
5) Support on parts of the New Green Deal to increase subsidies to renewable-energy while phasing out fossil fuel subsidies and freezing new oil dealing on public lands.

So really are you saying you're against these ideas?

[Orbitus]

I would vote for Biden over Trump for President of the United States in the same way I would vote for glass dildo over splintered broom handle when electing things to penetrate my anus forcefully with neither my consent nor lubrication. Which is to say yes, but I would I not be happy when faced with that choice.

You really can paint a picture, can't you?

[Elegiac]

Not really true, Biden's policies are rather popular. Unless your saying your against:

He isn't saying that in the slightest, don't be dishonest.

When he is saying "Sanders and Warren are popular on policy", he's pointing out correctly that political energy is behind progressive causes at the moment, and not behind Biden's brand of increasingly anachronistic neoliberalism.

[Ghostpanther]

He also polls the best against Trump than the other candidates. If Trump is going to lose the election, I would rather it be Biden than any of the other radical Democrats. If he is smart, he will not pick one of those as a running mate. But a lot of time left yet. Things can change before the primaries.

If the anti-Trump crowd mainly want Trump out of office, then they should get behind Biden.

[Elegiac]

If the anti-Trump crowd mainly want Trump out of office, then they should get behind Biden.

Yes, Democrats should totally take advice about who the best candidate is from a Republican. /s

[Hobb]

He isn't saying that in the slightest, don't be dishonest.

When he is saying "Sanders and Warren are popular on policy", he's pointing out correctly that political energy is behind progressive causes at the moment, and not behind Biden's brand of increasingly anachronistic neoliberalism.

But that's simply not true, if it was then Warren or Sanders would be leading in the polls, instead of being at a distant 2nd and 3rd place. And let's be truthful if you knew what neoliberalism meant you would not be using it to describe what I listed for Biden. It's quite the opposite.

[Dacien]

He also polls the best against Trump than the other candidates. If Trump is going to lose the election, I would rather it be Biden than any of the other radical Democrats. If he is smart, he will not pick one of those as a running mate. But a lot of time left yet. Things can change before the primaries.

If the anti-Trump crowd mainly want Trump out of office, then they should get behind Biden.

The other candidates aren't serious. Here's the problem in a nutshell: Progressive wish lists are very popular in the abstract, but simply cannot materialize in any meaningful way, not the least of which is fiscal constraints. So they promise these wonderful things like M4A that the government cannot possibly pay for, so assuming they win, it will never materialize as promised. And they use dodgy language like "It'll cost less than what we're paying now," when they're talking about total healthcare spending, not the massive burden the government would take on by moving costs from the private sector to the government that they can't possibly pay for without radical tax increases on everyone. They count on people not understanding this. Again, these are not serious candidates. If they luck out and somehow win, people who bought into things like this are going to be disappointed, but at that point, who cares, they won, and goodwill can hopefully carry them.

Biden is the only serious candidate out of the top contenders. There are a few serious candidates besides him, but they're not polling well at all. I don't like any of the Democratic candidates for obvious reasons, but at least Biden is shooting straight with the American public, I'll give him that.

[Saucexorzski]

I wanted to vote for Marianne Williamson. She seems the best choice since all the other candidates seem lost to reality.

[Blur4stuff]

Most of it is just being associated with Obama so closely. After a few years of such a horrific Trump presidency, people are very much missing having a decent human being as president. Trump has managed to make Bush look great. Imagine only 10-15 years after economic meltdown and Iraq that people would actually miss having a republican like Bush.

The country would obviously be significantly better off with Biden instead of Trump, but Biden will only sink in the poles as voters see/hear more from the other candidates. Biden doesn't really offer the same great solutions to our problems that candidates like Sanders/Warren do. He would essentially be a worse version of the Obama years. Better than what we have to be sure, but not as good as we could have.

If you're a republican and you think Trump is likely to lose, then you're probably rooting for Biden. That would give the best chances for rebounding in 2024 from the ass kicking that is about to happen in 2020. The last thing a republican like that would want is for Sanders/Warren/others to step into office and actually push a progressive agenda. Voters would greatly benefit and not only would 2024 be out of reach, but the following decade as well.

[tyrlaan]

The other candidates aren't serious. Here's the problem in a nutshell: Progressive wish lists are very popular in the abstract, but simply cannot materialize in any meaningful way, not the least of which is fiscal constraints. So they promise these wonderful things like M4A that the government cannot possibly pay for, so assuming they win, it will never materialize as promised. And they use dodgy language like "It'll cost less than what we're paying now," when they're talking about total healthcare spending, not the massive burden the government would take on by moving costs from the private sector to the government that they can't possibly pay for without radical tax increases on everyone. They count on people not understanding this. Again, these are not serious candidates. If they luck out and somehow win, people who bought into things like this are going to be disappointed, but at that point, who cares, they won, and goodwill can hopefully carry them.

Biden is the only serious candidate out of the top contenders. There are a few serious candidates besides him, but they're not polling well at all. I don't like any of the Democratic candidates for obvious reasons, but at least Biden is shooting straight with the American public, I'll give him that.

Yes, Democrats should totally take advice about who the best candidate is from a Republican. /s

Figured I'd save you the effort of scrolling up. No need to actually debate anything you said here, though you dropping concerns over "fiscal constraints" is pretty cute.

[Dacien]

Figured I'd save you the effort of scrolling up. No need to actually debate anything you said here, though you dropping concerns over "fiscal constraints" is pretty cute.

I mean Bernie Sanders is talking "$30 to $40 trillion dollars", that's a pretty big constraint there. But it polls well!

You know what else polls well? "Give a new car to everyone legislation". It's a very popular proposal!

[Independent voter]

Bernie and Warren will never get their huge "free stuff" give away programs through congress.

They'll wind up doing foreign policy stuff like Trump is.

Biden can at least get some of his sensible stuff through.

[Elegiac]

But that's simply not true, if it was then Warren or Sanders would be leading in the polls, instead of being at a distant 2nd and 3rd place.

Hint: There is a disconnect between policies which are popular and candidates which are perceived as electable.

- - - Updated - - -

I mean Bernie Sanders is talking "$30 to $40 trillion dollars", that's a pretty big constraint there. but it polls well!

You know what else polls well? "Give a new car to everyone legislation". It's a very popular proposal!

Yes. If your intent is to cast a desire for structural change as somehow the product of selfishness on the part of the poors, rather than actually assessing why these policies are polling well now when they haven't previously.

[Fugus]

Not really true, Biden's policies are rather popular. Unless your saying your against:

1) increasing min wage to $15.
2) Increasing subsidies to families that qualify for Obamacare to help lower the cost. While creating a government ran insurance company to compete against private insurance providers to help control cost.
3) Do away with Trump's failed tax cuts, while increasing taxes on the wealthy to 39% and corporate tax from 21% to 28%. To help pay for the 2nd line item.
4) Free Community College, and assistance with student loans.
5) Support on parts of the New Green Deal to increase subsidies to renewable-energy while phasing out fossil fuel subsidies and freezing new oil dealing on public lands.

So really are you saying you're against these ideas?

Dude, you basically just described Sanders platform with the exception of #2. Biden isn't know for these among the majority of voters, Sanders and Warren are.

[Gestopft]

Dude, you basically just described Sanders platform with the exception of #2. Biden isn't know for these among the majority of voters, Sanders and Warren are.

The issues people have with Biden’s platform are not that they don’t think it’s an improvement, it’s that a) it doesn’t go far enough to address the roots of the problems, or b) they don’t trust Biden to not capitulate to Republicans and end up with a quarter of a loaf

[Fugus]

The issues people have with Biden’s platform are not that they don’t think it’s an improvement, it’s that a) it doesn’t go far enough to address the roots of the problems, or b) they don’t trust Biden to not capitulate to Republicans and end up with a quarter of a loaf

For me, I see it like this.

How many people actually know Biden's platforms as opposed to Sanders and Warren, he is quite literally trying to pull a Clinton and trying to run on name recognition alone. While you have Sanders and Warren splitting their votes regardless of what Elegiac wants to think.

Also, not just fear of him basically bending over for the Republicans it actually goes further than that. You can google for a CSPAN video they have of Biden that is actually fairly recent where he is actually advocating for cutting social security and welfare, like within the past 3 years recent.

If he makes it to the general, that video will be plastered TV to TV killing support among his base as he is already throwing those issues under the bus rather than fixing the problems.

If you remove Sanders or Warren, the other springboards to the lead or a tie at the least while Biden goes down the more he sees the public let alone when that stuff comes out. Biden is one of the ones that Trump has the best chance of beating thanks to his CSPAN footage basically making him pre-compromised to many and rightfully so.

[Gestopft]

The other candidates aren't serious.

Ridiculous. Now, I will grant that there are some that aren't (*cough* Beto *cough*), but Biden is far from the only "serious" candidate, unless you define "serious" as being someone you would find acceptable or formidable against Trump. For example: I think Delaney is an asshole and disagree with his policy vision, and I think he is a terrible candidate that won't go anywhere, but I do think he is serious. He got in early and I at least respect that he is willing to say (what he sees as) hard truths, even if they are unpopular.

Here's the problem in a nutshell: Progressive wish lists are very popular in the abstract, but simply cannot materialize in any meaningful way,

With the exception of the Green New Deal (which is mostly just a framework at this point), almost everything else that most of the candidates are pushing for has been done in some way in multiple other countries. Bernie's 2016 campaign was basically "hey, let's do all this stuff that other countries already do." It's fair to wonder how the policies should best be handled in an American context, but to state that these policies "simply cannot materialize" is simply wrong. We're following the rest of the developed world on a large number of issues.

Now if by "simply cannot materialize," you are referring to the political process required to get there, then sure. But, 1) I'd rather candidates give bold solutions that strike at the root of the problems we have than try and pre-triangulate meager measures they think would be acceptable to Republicans (but that Republicans would oppose for political reasons anyway), and 2) you don't get these policies without changing minds- and this is a perfect venue to reach an audience and win support among the voters for those positions.

not the least of which is fiscal constraints.

1) I heard a lot of candidates talking about how they would pay for things tonight
2) We're the richest country in the world- it's not a question of whether or not we can afford free college or universal pre-K. We can. The question is if the political will can be mustered to do it
3) Fiscal constraints didn't seem to stop the GoP from blowing another hole in the deficit with their tax cut in 2017

So they promise these wonderful things like M4A that the government cannot possibly pay for, so assuming they win, it will never materialize as promised.

This is a nonsense talking point that needs to die. The government could pay for it by simply transitioning all premiums (and deductibles) into taxes. Not that this is the exact mechanism I'd recommend, but the point is that all of the money needed for MFA is already in the healthcare system. We already spend nearly 18% of GDP on healthcare. The issue isn't where to find the money to afford it- it's already there- it's how we would transition from one system to another (and of course whether or not it's a good idea).

And they use dodgy language like "It'll cost less than what we're paying now," when they're talking about total healthcare spending, not the massive burden the government would take on by moving costs from the private sector to the government that they can't possibly pay for without radical tax increases on everyone.

Total healthcare expenditure is what's more important though. Or are you one of the types that would rather pay $1200 to a private company than $800 to the government because "Government BAAAAD. Taxes BAAAAD" or something?

Biden is the only serious candidate out of the top contenders. There are a few serious candidates besides him, but they're not polling well at all. I don't like any of the Democratic candidates for obvious reasons, but at least Biden is shooting straight with the American public, I'll give him that.

Biden is a relic of the 90's who has voted in favor of most of the destructive terrible policies that have led us to this point. Some he even authored. He has every single weakness of Clinton except for a vagina and conspiracy theories about him.