Do you want tinkers?

[Kumorii]

If you really look at the landscape of classes, you can make Unholy DKs caster Necromancers by adding a talent, you can make MM Hunters Dark Rangers by returning Black Arrow, adding Wailing Arrow, and giving Forsaken an option to look like an undead elf.

Find it odd that you find more focus on the look of a class or pretend it's a class while ignoring mechanics... when people ask for necromancers and dark rangers, they aren't asking for DK's to become ranged or MM hunter to have spell called black arrow or wailing arrow...

People want necro and dark rangers because it's a class fantasy that will bring NEW mechanics and gameplay depth, simple for the fact that if they were to be created they would be mechanically different and play differently to the classes you suggest they already are.

For dark rangers players want to play an agile bow user with dark powers incorporated... adding black arrow or wailing arrow to hunter won't make a difference for that fantasy, UNLESS those spells bring new mechanics and depth on how the class plays. Which just confirms the point i'm making.

People want a class of whatever class fantasy they have that's different MECHANICALLY and DEPTH wise from the ones we currently have.

Once again, all these arguments is literally the same as "just pick up engineering and pretend you are a tinker" boom..done. Tinker class already in game.

[Xar226]

Necromancers? Do not fucking implement that shit.

Bring tinkers and get it over with. Any argument in opposition is purely subjective and backed by nothing but your beliefs.

useewutididthar?

In any event, neither tinkers nor necromancers sound particularly interesting to me but I would have to see a specific implementation to know for sure. I'd say the major thing tinker has going for it over necromancer is that you could reasonably make a tinker a mail armor wearer which is sorely needed. You would also need to try awfully hard to make a necromancer healer or tank, which means it's also pure DPS versus a 2-3 spec class. Of the two I'd rather see tinker, but hopefully Blizzard can come up with something more interesting than both.

[Teriz]

Find it odd that you find more focus on the look of a class or pretend it's a class while ignoring mechanics... when people ask for necromancers and dark rangers, they aren't asking for DK's to become ranged or MM hunter to have spell called black arrow or wailing arrow...

People want necro and dark rangers because it's a class fantasy that will bring NEW mechanics and gameplay depth, simple for the fact that if they were to be created they would be mechanically different and play differently to the classes you suggest they already are.

For dark rangers players want to play an agile bow user with dark powers incorporated... adding black arrow or wailing arrow to hunter won't make a difference for that fantasy, UNLESS those spells bring new mechanics and depth on how the class plays. Which just confirms the point i'm making.

People want a class of whatever class fantasy they have that's different MECHANICALLY and DEPTH wise from the ones we currently have.

Once again, all these arguments is literally the same as "just pick up engineering and pretend you are a tinker" boom..done. Tinker class already in game.

Except Necromancers wont bring new mechanics because there's already a dark summoner class in the game that would play exactly like a Necromancer would play (Warlock), which is why Blizzard made DKs instead.

As for Dark Rangers, Blizzard would have to retcon their current lore, because according to the game, a Dark Ranger is just a Forsaken MM Hunter.

Again, this argument doesn't work with Tinkers because none if the Tin qker's abilities exist in the Engineering profession, and you cant progress in through game content with only the profession.

Meanwhile, you're perfectly capable leveling as a UH DK with some undead pets and clawing shadows, and you're perfectly capable of rolling a Forsaken or Void Hunter and being a "Dark Ranger".

[Kumorii]

Except Necromancers wont bring new mechanics because there's already a dark summoner class in the game that would play exactly like a Necromancer would play (Warlock), which is why Blizzard made DKs instead.

Irrelevant, once again, which I keep telling you which you never adress... you can have 2,3,4,6,15 summoner classes who ALL work differently, maybe a bit exaggerated but you can once again make them all play differently, they can summon in different ways, use resources with different mechanics, their summons can have different interactions, etc etc... once again, a theme is not the same as mechanics, so you can't say they play exactly liek another class when it's all up to how you design the class.

Repeat after me, no one wants a class that plays like any of the current classes

Will you finally understand the above point? Doubt it.

As for Dark Rangers, Blizzard would have to retcon their current lore, because according to the game, a Dark Ranger is just a Forsaken MM Hunter.

Dunno, Sylvanas, A dark ranger hero both in wc3 and in HotS plays very differently from how a hunter in wow plays and that's just with 3 abilities... imagine if we expand those abilities. Doesn't matter if they are a "forsaken hunter" when they play differently.

Again, this argument doesn't work with Tinkers because none if the Tin qker's abilities exist in the Engineering profession, and you cant progress in through game content with only the profession.

And you can once again add abilities to necromancers and dark rangers that doesn't exist in the current classes... glad we agree on that making new abilities for a new class makes them different from other similar sources.

Meanwhile, you're perfectly capable leveling as a UH DK with some undead pets and clawing shadows.

Except they don't feel like a necromancer, they feel like a DK, so the necromancer fantasy won't be fulfilled. Once again, this is just the same as you are perfectly capable of taking up engineering and calling yourself a tinker. Before you say "they have new abilities that doesn't exist" yes, so would necromancers and dark rangers.

Let me ask you a question. And answer this one straight please.
Do you think people want Dark Ranger or Necro and all it does it plays like a Hunter or DK? Or do you think they want new mechanics and new gameplay accompanied with those new classes?

[cocomen2]

Except Necromancers wont bring new mechanics because there's already a dark summoner class in the game that would play exactly like a Necromancer would play (Warlock), which is why Blizzard made DKs instead.

As for Dark Rangers, Blizzard would have to retcon their current lore, because according to the game, a Dark Ranger is just a Forsaken MM Hunter.

You clearly cant image any other concept of Necromancer and Dark Ranger other than your own, and this shows how narrow minded you are while being obsessed with Tinker idea again must be your own concept (Mecha user).
Any one has rights to have opinion (i said it already), but you think its your right to scream that "BLIZZARD WOULD NOT DO IT" if someone has other opinion than your own its same as you crying "REEEEEE" each time someone utter a word "Necromancer".

[frownpower]

I want a new hybrid class in general. Tinkerers would be pretty cool depending on how their play style turns out. the only thing I really have concerns with is how the "leak" described them would be in open world how do you keep your tinkerings from keeping you in combat after you have killed the mobs you are after

[Azelas]

Bring necromancers and get it over with. Any argument in opposition is purely subjective and backed by nothing but your beliefs.

As opposed to... what?

[SirCowdog]

So what you're saying is Illidan didn't exist until TBC? Deathwing didn't exist until Cataclysm? Zandalar and Kul'tiras didn't exist until BFA? Just because it isn't explicitly in WoW itself doesn't mean it doesn't exist in the Warcraft universe.

Just going to jump in on this discussion.

Even though I have absolutely zero interest in playing the class:

I'd say that between existing gnome/goblin engineering, Draenei crystal-based tech, Mechagon, Titan stuff lying around everywhere, amd new Azerite-fueled machines and weapons...that there's more than enough basis for a "tinker" class in the lore, even if one did not previously exist.

There's a strong foundation for it. It really only depends on if Blizzard is willing to break away from the "swords & sorcery" theme other classes stick to. Despite the almost steampunk level of technology in the WoW universe, the classes themselves stick to a more mideval fantasy theme. Hunters with guns, and rogues with various tools are the extent of the class-based tech. And while engineering is a profession any class can take, it's not really something that's part of the class fantasy.

For Blizzard to make an entire class about "advanced" technology doesn't seem to fit with the other classes. It would also mean that the profession available to all classes would, of necessity, have to be atrophied in order to emphasize thee new class.

Not that this means it won't happen. Just that it would be an unusual step for Blizzard to take.

[cocomen2]

Just going to jump in on this discussion.

Even though I have absolutely zero interest in playing the class:

I'd say that between existing gnome/goblin engineering, Draenei crystal-based tech, Mechagon, Titan stuff lying around everywhere, amd new Azerite-fueled machines and weapons...that there's more than enough basis for a "tinker" class in the lore, even if one did not previously exist.

There's a strong foundation for it. It really only depends on if Blizzard is willing to break away from the "swords & sorcery" theme other classes stick to. Despite the almost steampunk level of technology in the WoW universe, the classes themselves stick to a more mideval fantasy theme. Hunters with guns, and rogues with various tools are the extent of the class-based tech. And while engineering is a profession any class can take, it's not really something that's part of the class fantasy.

For Blizzard to make an entire class about "advanced" technology doesn't seem to fit with the other classes. It would also mean that the profession available to all classes would, of necessity, have to be atrophied in order to emphasize thee new class.

Not that this means it won't happen. Just that it would be an unusual step for Blizzard to take.

Yes, but can you really believe that said Tinker would ride MECH, not just 10 sec CD but permanent form, ofc if Tinker gonna be added.

[DotEleven]

Argus had a whole lot of those warframes flying and fighting around, so, yes, the lightforged draenei alone count as "many others."


Which is fine and ultimately irrelevant, since HotS is not WoW, and are separate canons.


Oh, yes. "Clearly taking after" the HotS Tinker so much that it's been five years and so far no "robotic backpack with mechanical arms that can transform into a mech", especially since his role in the Island Expeditions would have been the perfect moment to introduce that.


Neither does.

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False. The WC3 Goblin Tinker has never appeared in any of the campaigns. You cannot say something that never showed up in the campaigns, and was exclusive to the multiplayer/skirmish features of the game, "is part of the lore". Yes, the WC3 Goblin Tinker neutral hero unit was added to the game after all campaigns were done, but that doesn't change the issue of them never showing up in the lore campaigns.


"Backpacks" are not a model that does not exist in WoW. Hell, they're not even a NEW model. Many quests in the game put a "backpack" on your character. The Anti-Gravity Pack in Mechagon is one model. And just off the top of my head there is a quest in WoW that existed since the Cataclysm expansion, in the human starting zone, that also puts a backpack on your character. There is no need to create "new models".


I cannot remember either so I cannot agree or dispute that claim with any amount of certainty. As for "invisible backpack", it begs the question: why? It's a NPC, and we've seen NPCs with backpacks before. Hell, our own characters have used backpacks before, so it's not like it'd be an outlandish thing to see. Worse: seeing the backpack would've been quite iconic, don't you think? Another thing that, while it doesn't debunk the idea, but put a big monkey wrench in it, is that the Alliance version of that team, the gnome team, the leader is riding not a mech... but a mechanostrider. Wouldn't that mean that the Alliance version of the tinker doesn't have a mech, but a mechanostrider?


Why not? Remote control is a thing, and engineers themselves have created autonomous robots, so why not? Besides, the "flight master's whistle" says "request a pickup from the closest flight master", and when you use it and the closest flight master is a gnome/goblin one (say, in Mechagon), a flying machine come pick you up, so that's an entire possible idea.


I never denied the existence of the Tinker's Union, but this is not exactly a very meaningful way to discuss, because we don't need an organization like that to exist in the first place. The Knights of the Ebon Blade, the 'organization' the playable death knights hail from, did not exist until Wrath. The group that the monks came from also did not exist until Mists. So the precedence for the creation of an entire new group for a future class is there.


On that, I agree. One could make the argument that it is as "iconic" as the demon hunter's metamorphosis abilities, but I think there's more reasons for it not to exist, than there are for it to exist, but that's a different argument altogether.

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There is a huge difference between "does not exist" and "will never exist."

My statement, "does not exist", is a fact. Not a single instance of that "robotic backpack with mechanical arms that transforms into a robot" ever existed in fifteen years of World of Warcraft. And my statement was made to counter the claim that the "Warcraft 3 Goblin Tinker neutral hero unit" is canon to the Warcraft lore.

My statement in no way means that such a device "will never exist" in the future. Blizzard might add it next expansion. Hell, in the next content patch, for all I know.

=====================================================


No, that's not what I'm saying. Because Illidan, Deathwing, Zandalar and Kul'Tiras already existed in the lore of the franchise before becoming "major players" in WoW. Illidan was part of the campaign of Warcraft 3. Deathwing was already part of the lore in Warcraft 2. Zandalar existed in the lore since at least WoW vanilla. And Kul'Tiras soldiers are part of the Warcraft 3 campaign.

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By that same logic you can make hunters into tinkers by transmoging tech-like stuff, "taming" mechanical pets, giving them the engineering profession so they can transmog/use those engineering goggles, and use all those engineering tech gadgets, like shields, turrets, walking bombs, etc.

Since we're talking about intentionally restricting a class' gameplay potential for the sake of fantasies, and all...

And so does the tinker. He's literally in the WC3 Lore. But you refuse to acknowledge it.

[Ielenia]

And so does the tinker. He's literally in the WC3 Lore. But you refuse to acknowledge it.

He's not in the lore of Warcraft 3. Gameplay is not lore. Multiplayer matches are not lore. The Goblin Tinker only exists in multiplayer maps of the game. Never in the campaigns. Never in the lore.

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On Argus.

I fail to see the relevance.

Oh, wait, I remember now: you have this nonsensical and completely illogical belief that lightforged draenei somehow lose the ability to pilot warframes when they arrive on Azeroth, right? I remember because I used to have this little gem in my signature:

Are you implying the Lightforged Draenei somehow lose their ability to pilot mechs when they arrive on Azeroth?

That would be the implication

And, since I just reminded you of that argument of yours from one year ago, there's also this, in that exact same post of yours:

Again, if they start having Lightforged Warframes on Azeroth in BfA and beyond, you'll have an argument.

Well, now we have Warframes in Tiragarde Sound, Arathi Highlands, Drustvar and Nazmir.

Anyways, back to your current post:

The absence of a claw pack is irrelevant when we have a Goblin inside a mech with Tinker HotS abilities.

Soooooo... according to you, a demon hunter without its most defining feature, changing into a demon, could not be implemented in WoW, according to you. But a tinker without its most defining feature, the "robotic backpack with mechanic arms that turn into a mech", that can happen? I sense a double-standard, here.

Except Tinkers dont tame pets, and a rifle and a bomb ain't a Tinker as shown in WoW.

But mechanical pets, missiles, turrets, fighting in a mech, and walking explosives is a tinker, is it not?

However, Blizzard themselves stated that they incorporated the Necromancer into Death Knights

Blizzard also incorporated the demon hunter into the warlock class way back then.

[Teriz]

Repeat after me, no one wants a class that plays like any of the current classes

Correct. They dont like Blizzard's iterations of Dark Rangers and Necromancers, and want ANOTHER version that fits their personal opinion of what rhs class SHOULD be.

It's like youbsaid; Its IRRELEVANT to you that there's already a class that has the Necromancer's theme abilities, and that there's another class that plays like a Necromancer. In short, nothing but your personal opinion of those classes will satisfy you.

[DotEleven]

He's not in the lore of Warcraft 3. Gameplay is not lore. Multiplayer matches are not lore. The Goblin Tinker only exists in multiplayer maps of the game. Never in the campaigns. Never in the lore.

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I fail to see the relevance.

Oh, wait, I remember now: you have this nonsensical and completely illogical belief that lightforged draenei somehow lose the ability to pilot warframes when they arrive on Azeroth, right? I remember because I used to have this little gem in my signature:

And, since I just reminded you of that argument of yours from one year ago, there's also this, in that exact same post of yours:

Well, now we have Warframes in Tiragarde Sound, Arathi Highlands, Drustvar and Nazmir.

Anyways, back to your current post:

Soooooo... according to you, a demon hunter without its most defining feature, changing into a demon, could not be implemented in WoW, according to you. But a tinker without its most defining feature, the "robotic backpack with mechanic arms that turn into a mech", that can happen? I sense a double-standard, here.


But mechanical pets, missiles, turrets, fighting in a mech, and walking explosives is a tinker, is it not?


Blizzard also incorporated the demon hunter into the warlock class way back then.

He is a unit in WC3 and as such is a part of the WC3 universe, which extends to WoW itself. Just like, you know, Illidan.

[Sevarin]

im still waiting for peon personally. i want to, in the middle of battle, build an archer tower with which we can assault our foes. of course the build process will take several minutes, but can be reduced by other builders helping. it can also be destroyed by your enemies while youre building it, but just think of how well defended your towns would be!?

[Alanar]

Nathanos yells: Why aren't there any Dark rangers in your rank? Well you have to do..

Gotta mean something right?

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im still waiting for peon personally. i want to, in the middle of battle, build an archer tower with which we can assault our foes. of course the build process will take several minutes, but can be reduced by other builders helping. it can also be destroyed by your enemies while youre building it, but just think of how well defended your towns would be!?

Peons are glass cannons( minus the cannons)

[Kumorii]

In short, nothing but your personal opinion of those classes will satisfy you.

So now we are stating the obvious again? Engineering doesn't satisfy you so you want Tinkers...

Also,Once again, you refuse to answer my questions...

Let me ask you a question. And answer this one straight please.
Do you think people want Dark Ranger or Necro and all it does it plays like a Hunter or DK? Or do you think they want new mechanics and new gameplay accompanied with those new classes?

Respond to this, because it's a very important.... Simple yes or no is needed.

Nathanos yells: Why aren't there any Dark rangers in your rank? Well you have to do..

Gotta mean something right?

But there are, apparently any hunter is a Dark Ranger...

[Teriz]

So now we are stating the obvious again? Engineering doesn't satisfy you so you want Tinkers...

Engineering isnt a class, and contains none of the Tinker's abilities, so why would it? You do know the differences between classes and professions right?

Also I already answered your question.

[Kumorii]

Engineering isnt a class, and contains none of the Tinker's abilities, so why would it? You do know the differences between classes and professions right?

Same boat as those who wants Necro or Dark Rangers then, you want a class that satisfy your needs...

Also I already answered your question.

No you didn't, you are dancing around it. I sorta can take it as that you are saying yes to the second question? That you do realise people want a new class with new mechanics and new playstyles?

So why then do you always counter with "go play hunter or DK"? When you apparently are saying that you know they want something completely different to how they play? That just doesn't make sense "Go play that class that doesn't satisfy or plays the same as your fantasy to satisfy your needs".

if that's not what you are saying, give a straight answer to either of those questions.

[SirCowdog]

Yes, but can you really believe that said Tinker would ride MECH, not just 10 sec CD but permanent form, ofc if Tinker gonna be added.

I think the exact details of how the abilities are animated or implemented don't really matter. Maybe Tinkers have a pet spec where the mech follows them around. Maybe a tank spec where they "shift" forms into a mech the same way druids change to a bear. Maybe a healing spec where they drop healing beacons or drones, or shoot players with healing bullets.

Who knows. The individual abilities could be just about anything, really, as long as they were robot/mechanical in nature.

As for riding a mecha suit around: I think it's very possible. There are many examples of azerite powered mechs in BfA. The gob squad has one. Both Mekkatorque and Gallywix have one. There's a mount that any player can get. The draenei have a few. And goblin shredders have been around since forever.

It's not that far of a stretch to think a class could be based on the use of one, especially if it's the tank spec. In a lot of ways it makes sense, even.

[cocomen2]

I think the exact details of how the abilities are animated or implemented don't really matter. Maybe Tinkers have a pet spec where the mech follows them around. Maybe a tank spec where they "shift" forms into a mech the same way druids change to a bear. Maybe a healing spec where they drop healing beacons or drones, or shoot players with healing bullets.

Who knows. The individual abilities could be just about anything, really, as long as they were robot/mechanical in nature.

As for riding a mecha suit around: I think it's very possible. There are many examples of azerite powered mechs in BfA. The gob squad has one. Both Mekkatorque and Gallywix have one. There's a mount that any player can get. The draenei have a few. And goblin shredders have been around since forever.

It's not that far of a stretch to think a class could be based on the use of one, especially if it's the tank spec. In a lot of ways it makes sense, even.

Yep possibility always there, but lets look at DH+DK ,only Illidan in permanent demon-form, only Arthas can summon real Sindy , its hard to image raid of people and some of them in giant MECH`s it would dwarfed any tauren and obstacle vision for other players (very hard to dodge stills while MECH`s run around you even more so if you play small-body race (gnome,goblin) its already problem with big characters.

So if said Mekkatorque and Gallywix have MECH`s, its isnt translate that playable tinker must have them too (they gonna be just mortals not a mighty HEROES), but all can happen and it would bring not just one meme given time that they were fixing camera position for basic models ... so long)