Elephant in the room, Azerite essence and alts.

[krl]

Blizzard do care and they have said times and again that alts are ok but are intended to be less powerful than mains. Intended, as in "by design" less powerful, as in constraints are explicitely setup in the game to prevent limited alts from getting as powerful.

So account-wide Pathfinder is intended, but rk3 essences and mythic gear on limited-playtime alts are not. Hc gear and rk2 are really fast to get though, no excuse here.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

i'm guessing the reason nobody is talking about it is that essences are fine and very easy to get rk3, excepting i suppose the PVP ones if PVP isn't your thing. the rest are a pittance if you're speed leveling an alt.

it's not the difficulty of content it's the time you have to spend and the gating of the rank3s some need up to 3 weeks. grindig 50k honor is not difficult just time consuming

[Cosmic Janitor]

Blizzard do care and they have said times and again that alts are ok but are intended to be less powerful than mains. Intended, as in "by design" less powerful, as in constraints are explicitely setup in the game to prevent limited alts from getting as powerful.

So account-wide Pathfinder is intended, but rk3 essences and mythic gear on limited-playtime alts are not. Hc gear and rk2 are really fast to get though, no excuse here.

The issue is that up until WoD all you needed to do was run raids with your alt characters to get them to the level of your main. Since legion it turned into running raids, m+ and some AP farm. Since BfA 8.2 you are required to raid, do m+, farm AP in full, grind essences inclduing farming rep and some pearls.. The bar just keeps going up. It's also not like we are talking about missing some BiS items on your alts here and there only worth 1% each, we talk about flat out couple thousand dps increases here and there per essence/trait when your overall dps is maybe in the 30k range (before getting all the juicy stuff).

[Laysson]

And that's why I'm unsubbed, the classes are already meh and if I have to do the crap on every character, than fuck it, that's all.

[JohnRoads]

Still takes a minimum of three weeks. Finish a +10, get your R2 from the end-dungeon chest... then you get a maximum of 5 of the R3 item from each weekly M+ cache, and it takes 15 of that to get R3.

So, no, you can't get it in 1 week.

No you don't get a maximum of 5 of the R3 items from each weekly, you get 5 for a +10 and more for each level above that. Some in my guild got done after 2 weeks as they did a +17 first week and a +16 the second week. So technically you can get it in 1 week if you complete a high enough key, but that would be very unlikely on an alt.

Here is a screenshot of one of the weekly chests with 8 of the R3 items:

[Kumorii]

I've said it before I say it again. Things that aren't necessarily a grind should be unlocked per character. Grinds, like AP should be acc wide so you don't feel like you are wasting time on alts when you could make your main stronger. Like how Paragon works in D3.

[crusadernero]

Well I farmed alot on my main and realised once I was going to play on a couple of alts, that I just had to do the same stuff over again. So nah, I decided not to. I dont care about the essences more than doing some legwork on my main for it. Beyond that, I just dont bother. Meaning I dont play much.

But I guess it does not matter for Blizzard, cause I am still subbed.

Funny thing is that I dont really mind grinds, but it sucks having to work for the same thing on another character lol

[Redwyrm]

The real kick in the teeth is that, like AP in Legion, Azerite grinding will be completely abandoned in the next expansion. Disposable one use mechanics. WoW's landfill must be filled with ideas that only get used once and then are discarded on the trash heap of history.

[Cosmic Janitor]

I've said it before I say it again. Things that aren't necessarily a grind should be unlocked per character. Grinds, like AP should be acc wide so you don't feel like you are wasting time on alts when you could make your main stronger. Like how Paragon works in D3.

That would just result in people farming AP on their alts to boost their main, as the game itself can't really differentiate between those. You'd need another lockout mechanic at this point which kind of turns the whole system on it's head. The AP shit, thanks to catchup isn't so much of an issue. The biggest issue the staggered gating of essenences behind rep and other things.

Also, doing the introcution to Nazmir time and time again is kinda soul crushing.. Especially with the god awful cutscene animations. Seriously, Blizz get someone to help you animate faces and then recycle some generic mouth movements. Everything will look better than the shit your characters do atm. I didn't need to know that Jaina learned how to unhinge her Jaw for Thrall/Kalecgos..

[Super Kami Dende]

why is no one talking about this big issue, i can't believe that for us to play alts and get azerite essence we need to do same amount of farming as we did on mains.

this game has to move on and provide account wide systems for unlocking powers such as azerite essence and make loot less free, make people work harder in dungeons to get above ilvl 430.

I guess People aren't talking about it because if you choose to play an Alt, prepare to put the same amount of time into it as your Main if you want it as geared.

I still don't get how after 15 years People can't seem to grasp that simple fucking concept.

[Kumorii]

That would just result in people farming AP on their alts to boost their main, as the game itself can't really differentiate between those. You'd need another lockout mechanic at this point which kind of turns the whole system on it's head. The AP shit, thanks to catchup isn't so much of an issue. The biggest issue the staggered gating of essenences behind rep and other things.

Disagree, I find the AP grind to be the worst, mainly because I hate grinding. Idm unlocking essences again through raids, m+ or pvp because that's content I'm already doing.
If AP becomes acc wide anything that is weekly just becomes weekly for the account rather than character. No loss for us compared to now and won't promote using multiple chars to do the same quest over and over for a huge boost. It means I can do m+ and raids and such on alts without feeling I could boost my main instead.
Ofc there are more kinks that need to be worked out, but it's definitely possible.

- - - Updated - - -

The real kick in the teeth is that, like AP in Legion, Azerite grinding will be completely abandoned in the next expansion. Disposable one use mechanics. WoW's landfill must be filled with ideas that only get used once and then are discarded on the trash heap of history.

Pretty sure next expansion will have a AP system too...since it's the only long term goal that works, that you always have something to work on. Which players wanted.

[Sneax]

With regards to re-grinding rep on alts, could we not just go back to something like the MoP system?
Once your main has reached exalted, your alts can get a % rep boost with that faction? (up to 1/10,000 to avoid paragon chest exploits?)

[Zarvel]

Hmmmm, although I see the convenience in account-wide systems, I don't really follow the logic of why convenience should replace gameplay, even if it is tedious gameplay.

I don't remember any game where doing something in one save file shares rewards to a character in a different save file. Unless it's like a New Game+ kind of thing.

So I guess the thing is whether you consider your "alt" to be its own character or not. An independent new character is basically like a new save file. Why should it have anything that your other characters unlocked?

This argument that I've seen from a bunch of people in this thread now falls flat the moment you take into account class design and wanting to play something with a new flavour for a change of pace or to stop dragging your team down in raids for example.
* Not everyone plays alts to experience them fresh from scratch.
* There's a chunk of playerbase that has alts so they can swap to them if they regret picking their mains because of blizzard's lacklustre balancing and design. I fall under that category myself. I maintain a DK main, and 2 alts, warrior and paladin respectively.
* Then there's a chunk of the playerbase that actively tries to maintain a bunch of alts at the same level for the sake of their guild or whatever else kind of content they're pushing.

Given the kind of system it is and how it won't negate any of the positive gameplay that players currently experience with essences on their mains, it makes no sense to not universalize it on an account wide basis. Essences are part of core gameplay, you do NOT lock it behind weeks or months of re-grinding in an ever-changing game where people may or may not be satisfied with their time sink into any particular class.

[JohnRoads]

With regards to re-grinding rep on alts, could we not just go back to something like the MoP system?
Once your main has reached exalted, your alts can get a % rep boost with that faction? (up to 1/10,000 to avoid paragon chest exploits?)

I support this idea and I think it fits fine into the game. They already considers alts part of the mains "family" with heirlooms and account wide pets and toys, so it should be no problem of allowing alts to earn reputation a little faster.

- - - Updated - - -

Indeed at 15 and above you get 8 so you get done in two weeks if you run two 15s.

Ahh the maximum is 8. Then yes 2 weeks is minimum, which I think is fair.

[JohnRoads]

Well at the same time, not exactly easy for an alt to clear a +15.

No it is not, but rank 2 should be more than enough for the daily use. Rank 3 is mostly a convenience upgrade for that essence.

[Soikona]

I am of the opinion that your alt should be behind your main not matching but expansion features such as azerite or artefacts should be kept up to date in some manner.

For example, if your main has unlocked the rank 3 or 4 essence then your newly max level alt should be at rank 2. If your main has only rank 1, then your alt shouldn’t have it unlocked. When it comes to the neck, your alt being behind maybe 6 or 7 levels of what your main has (or as a percentage, like always 40% behind for example) would be adequate I would say.

Just this way, it will keep your alts relevant in some manner but just not as powerful as your main unless you actually put in effort to make them as powerful.

[Redwyrm]

Pretty sure next expansion will have a AP system too...since it's the only long term goal that works, that you always have something to work on. Which players wanted.

Oh, I'm sure there will be another grind. It just won't be a continuation of the Azerite system where you keep the levels you have built throughout BfA and advance from there. Azerite will be tossed out the window and they will come out with a similar system where you have to empower your socks because the fate of the world depends on it.

[crakerjack]

it is not hard, it is time gated.

reputation to exalted + farming currency that takes about at least 20 days

hell this mission on the table has 12 days duration??

and then you have to repeat every action on your 2-3 alts.

as i said, unlocking powers should be easier on alts. farming gear should be harder.

You don't need exalted do you? Besides, it's not like we need to collect every essence on each alt. I mainly focus on what essence scales the best for both single target and AoE. If I really like my alt I'll get what's BiS for single target and what's BiS for AoE.

[markos82]

I don't see AP being a problem. My 3rd alt is lvl51 or so. Getting about 4 lvls for 3000ap ( 3600 total + from quests) emissary that takes about 5min to do is fine by me.
I have problem with gear, imo gear lvl ( from quests) should be on par with the gear you get on your main ( or char with highest ilvl)

[Ragedaug]

This. People need to get it into their heads that alts are just that, alts. They're not supposed to be as developed as your main, and acting like your alts not being as developed as your mains is a design flaw or problem is an attitude that needs to be laid to rest.

Not everyone plays the same way you do. I don't role play. My "main" and "alts" are not playing the game. I'm playing the game. When an achievement is earned, I earned it. My screen pixels did nothing but show me what I was doing. "go pixels!! go get us that rep!" ...it doesn't work that way.

I'm not trying to say the way you regard your toons is wrong, I just wish you would just stop trying to say I'm wrong. You having account wide unlocks doesn't hinder you from being able to earn the rep or achievements several times over on any alt you want to earn them on.


Because there are people who like to play just one toon, and there are people who like to play many toons; I would like to see more account accessibility. That way the farm/grind can be tuned to the same length. It can be tough to get and take a while to complete, but you do it knowing you don't have to do it 10+ more times.