Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Skroe]

I cannot stand Biden... I’ll vote for him over Trump, but... I can’t stand that guy... he seems so full of shit.

He's a politician. Did I miss an episode or something where we started to believe any politicians are sincere?

This is something that was bizarre to me even in 2016. How does anyone "believe" in any one of these people. They're not visionaries. They are one-notch above average politicians in a political climate that's long been bereft of vision, talent, imagination and actual leaders. Our political system does not attract or generate people of that mold anymore, for a host of reasons.

So I don't how people get the slightest bit of attachment to anyone of these people. The way I look at it is purely through the perspective of utilitarianism. A politician provides a service... does something I approve or answers a specific need. And when they're usefulness to me is over, they're as good as dead to me. There is no belief. There is no loyalty or faith. They are our servants and they are all completely dispensable, and we should create a climate of fear among them where they perform or get dropped.

There are better things and better people to believe in than Comrade Trump, Old Man Sanders, Old Man Joe Biden, Professor of Everything Warren and "Oh you didn't drop out yet?" Harris.

Part of me hopes Bernie Sanders gets the nomination and wins the election, just to see him handcuffed by the same basic two year deals that Trump and Obama's second term were, just to drive the point him. Part of me want to see him or Warren sign $800 billion defense budgets, just to instruct the point that people should support and use politicians, but never for a moment should they ever trust or believe in them. They are intrinsically compromised people.

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I'm still expecting/hoping that Bernie/Warren have a plan to drop one of themselves out at the last minute and endorse the other. Of course, I'm hoping it's Bernie that drops for Warren, but if it somehow happens the other way around - I would HOPE to any Goddess out there that he would immediately name Warren as his VP runningmate. That immediately helps cancel out the "he's too old" argument as we clearly see his backup plan then if something happens to him (which, if we all remember, is one of the many many things that doomed the Hell out of McCain's awful '08 campaign).

I mean, I've looked at the 538 polls, if you add both Warren and Sander's percents together, they beat Biden most of the time by a couple %. What's going to push that over to guaranteed victory is how many still remain to nibble-off the progressive vote in the end (Yang, Buttigege, O'Rourke, ect...)

Two things

(1) They won't drop out. As we've gone over before, neither of them have any reason to drop out until after Super Tuesday. The could split Iowa and New Hampshire (what I think they will do) and it won't make a difference. One of them could get both. Neither of them will have the courage to tell their staff, donors and supporters that they're going to make a tactical move to support the other. Not until Super Tuesday, at which point Biden cleans up and generates a Hillary-like insurmountable lead.

Oh and Harris too. California votes on Super Tuesday. She'll lose Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina, and stay in just to make as good a showing as possible in her home state and one of the largest donor states. Splitting California among progressives three ways ensures Biden gets it, and all it's delegates.

(2) Adding up Bernie and Warren to virtually "Beat" Biden isn't exactly right. Biden is also a lot of Democrat's second choice, not Bernie, because Bernie is not a real Democrat and Biden is very popular among Democrats still.Certainly it would create a much more competitive race that Biden could lose (and would lose in places he is currently winning), but it's not a simple matter of throwing all the progressives in one pile.

I'll say again, the model Democrats should be looking at is the 2012 Republican Primary, and how Mitt Romney won it.

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But, but, the electoral pushback if it isn't successful...

Remind me to spit on Harry Reid, Chuck Schumer, and Nancy Pelosi's graves when all three of them finally do cark it.

I mean, Nancy Pelosi has decided to do exactly what I feared (and said) she would do last year. Her primary job is a fundraiser, and she see's Trump as a cash machine to get money and win elections.

If you get a chance, listen to her interviews. This is an idealist whose private war against the Republicans utterly destroyed the idealistic progressive in her years ago. She's bitter, angry, and lives for the fight now. Don't get me wrong, she's a brilliant political strategist and took Trump to school earlier in the year. But Nancy Pelosi started to be able to justify anything she does by saying "it helps us do X Y and Z, and the best way to do that is beat Republicans" years ago. She can justify any decision she makes on those grounds. Really, watch the interviews. She constantly does it.

She is an excellent example about why there needs to be rotation of leaders at the top (note I did not say term limits), and she should have stood aside after losing the House in 2010, rather than becoming Minority leader and making everyone below her take a step down in rank.

She has a moral responsibility to impeach Trump. She must speak to the country's conscience and history and lay a marker with regards to his behavior. Even if it is doomed in the Senate she has the moral and political responsibility to take a stand, on the record, to declare his actions worthy of impeachment. I hope we're jumping the gun and they'll do that in Spring/Summer 2020, which would be ideal because it would keep Trump busy and in Washington rather than in swing states. But I fear she won't (and indeed, was never going to) purely because she thinks she can play a longer game, and utilize Trump to win elections.

Dangerous game to play with an autocratic, un-American man like Donald Trump. Also immoral.

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*shrug* They aren't exactly wrong, you know?

The last thing they need before the 2020 elections is bad optics, and their losing the impeachment bid--and it will fail because of the Senate--would absolutely give Trump something to crow about and rally around as the election nears. It's all well and good to say they should have the vote for morality's sake, but when the true goal is getting Trump out of office then I can't fault them for stalling it. Especially when they have several discovery investigations ongoing which would lend a lot of weight to the articles when and if they come to fruition.


You can demand justice at all costs if you like, but if the cost is having Trump in the White House another 4 years and STILL not having any justice then I can patiently wait until after the election.

EDIT: If you really want to be mad at someone, I'd suggest Mueller for being so "by the book" that he wouldn't just come out and say "look, Congress needs to take these obstruction findings and begin impeachment proceedings because my hands are tied by the DoJ". Of course, if you look at what he wrote he practically did say those things, but obviously not in terms clear enough for the GOP and idiot supporters to grasp.

I think there is little evidence that impeachment would rally Trump's supporters. They're already a cult. They're already willing to lay down their dignity, principles and patriotism to protect the most un-American of people this country has produced in our life-time. They've gone this far already. How do you energize the already energized? How does impeachment fundamentally change anything with them?

I think it a baseless fear. I say it doesn't. I say if you impeach Trump, he won't see any bump in support. But it could snare him if done at a crucial time. If done right, it could indict his entire presidency in simple, straightforward terms, while he is running for re-election.

And I'll say again, we have a moral responsibility to do it, or future Americans will look at our generation with disgust at our failure to take action.

[dproject]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bor...ls-mexico-pact

Trump came in to rescue the nation. You guys should be grateful.

[Crispin]

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/bor...ls-mexico-pact

Trump came in to rescue the nation. You guys should be grateful.

If true, this shows that a wall is a complete waste and that diplomatic work and laws can curb illegal immigration.

[Zaydin]

If true, this shows that a wall is a complete waste and that diplomatic work and laws can curb illegal immigration.

Won't matter to the Trumpkins; getting Trumps racist vanity wall built is more important to them than actually doing anything about illegal immigration that will make a difference.

[Dontrike]

He's

Not

Joking

https://twitter.com/JoshuaPotash/sta...32004857323520

I guess Trump thinks he'll live another 6+ years.

[Flarelaine]

GOP is canceling primaries to protect Trump

So, just a thought. Primaries are done by states. Even if several states cancel primaries, what if the rest hold them and somehow one challenger picks up enough delegates to beat Trump? As far as I know, no blue state has cancelled GOP primaries just yet. If the deep red ones cancel but others hold, will the deep red ones get to send delegates, assuming there is a convention?

[PACOX]

So, just a thought. Primaries are done by states. Even if several states cancel primaries, what if the rest hold them and somehow one challenger picks up enough delegates to beat Trump? As far as I know, no blue state has canceled GOP primaries just yet. If the deep red ones cancel but others hold, will the deep red ones get to send delegates, assuming there is a convention?

Technically, the GOP can say screw the delegates from the primaries and push Trump through. It would be illogical because it means theres clearly a lot of reds who don't support Trump, but they could do it.

[Flarelaine]

Nevada is a blue state.

Missed that one, then.

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Technically, the GOP can say screw the delegates from the primaries and push Trump through. It would be illogical because it means theres clearly a lot of reds who don't support Trump, but they could do it.

They could, but they would have to declare it. Right now, at least officially, it's just states, not even many of them. I keep reading how there are still proper conservatives out there, of the old guard; I keep reading how there are reds who don't like Trump. What if they control the GOP in some states and just go ahead with a primary?

[Breccia]

Trump came in to rescue the nation. You guys should be grateful.

Huh. Illegal entry to the country is down. Interesting. So, the point of the Wall is...

[Kujako]

So, the point of the Wall is...

[Dontrike]

[video=youtube;AYURxfaTdpY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYURxfaTdpY[/vdeo]

This is pretty much Trump's entire motto. It's all he wants, which is why whenever people don't think of him fondly he acts like a deranged weasel.

[Breccia]

So OANN, which some of you will remember was the network Trump floated as the replacement for FOX News, just filed a lawsuit against MSNBC.

Key in that was Rachel Maddow's reference to OANN as "literally paid Russian propaganda". OANN is suing on the grounds that Maddow knew that wasn't true.

In response, MSNBC pointed at Trump and said "I rest my case".

EDIT: Oh I forgot to mention, this is why Maddow said it. The lawsuit will fail.

[Paranoid Android]

In the middle of a briefing on Bahamian hurricane refugees, Trump starts talking about "people standing in line," "soaking wet" but he's talking about his supporters and not hurricane victims https://t.co/XpwtVb4WHl

https://twitter.com/bubbaprog/status...710884864?s=19

This guy oozes narcassim. I never met or watched a person publicly with this much about him.

Maybe he is that insecure and stupid that getting briefed he cannot process it, so he speaks about himself. Idk.

Oh, I guess the weather was perfectly clear at his rally. So again a liar or he is senile.

[Edge-]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/video...859_video.html

So, again, Trump contradicts his own appointees and staff within hours of them saying something.

This is the least coherent and prepared administration in history. They spend more time fighting themselves than they do fighting Democrats. And the law.

[Seiklis]

And down goes Bolton

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...er/2269942001/

I have little doubt he yelled at Trump over the Taliban thing and got fired for it

[Kujako]

And down goes Bolton

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...er/2269942001/

I have little doubt he yelled at Trump over the Taliban thing and got fired for it

Or the creature that pretends to be his mustache got into a fight witch whatever is living on Trumps head.

[Edge-]

And down goes Bolton

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...er/2269942001/

I have little doubt he yelled at Trump over the Taliban thing and got fired for it

Was about to post this. Good lord, the shelf life for Trump appointees is shorter than a gallon of milk.

[DocSavageFan]

Here's the tweets regarding Bolton being fired.



https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...52880055746560
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...52881729228802

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Only the best people. Only the best.

This is good news for our country...Bolton is a hawk and I'm glad he's gone.

[Kujako]

Here's the tweets regarding Bolton being fired.



https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...52880055746560
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/...52881729228802

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Only the best people. Only the best.

More and more, Trump is running the White House like the "you're fired" sketch from Mr Show.

[DocSavageFan]

I'm glad he's gone, but considering the trajectory of the men filling that role I expect the next to be worse than Bolton.

Of course you would suspect that...I would expect no less from you.