Why classic appeals to a grumpy old man

[Torture]

Like many others, I played vanilla 'back in the day'.

I was under no illusions about classic. What people seem to forget is that a large part of the challenge of vanilla was simply not knowing what you were doing. Raids felt epic because you'd never been in a group of 40 people trying to play together to execute even the most basic of tactics (the idea of dying to Baron Geddon's bomb seems ridiculous now right?). By modern standards, these raids weren't all that difficult (I went on to main tank Heroic Lich King and comparing that to Raggy is just plain daft) but we got into those raids without 10 years of MMO experience behind us and it 'felt' epic.

Questing didn't feel as tedious, because we hadn't spent 10 years slowly becoming numb to the whole concept of questing (honestly, there was a first time you collected 10 wolf tails). The community felt more balanced because we hadn't learned how to judge other people yet, there simply wasn't enough information to fine tune your preferences and you tended not to care all that much about the fact the tank had cloth spirit bracers on in Deadmines.

Look, I could ramble for hours, but I won't. Suffice to say that 'newness' was a huge amount of the appeal and you can almost taste it when you hear the way people remember vanilla. They don't necessarily want the game itself back, they want the feeling of it all being new and exciting and epic. They want a time before we all got burned out doing effectively the same things for 10 years. Let's also be honest when we say that isn't happening.

So, why does classic appeal to a grumpy old man?

It's about attainability. These days I'm 40. I'm not the younger man that had all the time in the world for video games. As fond as my memories are, when I think about returning to retail it just all feels so daunting. I'm so far behind both in terms of character and knowledge, and even if I can just about scrape back into endgame on limited time, there will always be that steadily moving goalpost of 'the next expansion' looming ahead of me.

Classic feels like it has a fixed endpoint (eventually Naxx). I feel like I can just chill, take my time, divert from the path to go and pick a few herbs without the game's final point moving away from me quicker than I can get there. Sure, there will be thousands of people through Naxx before I get there, but I will get there. It won't have been replaced by something even further away. Noone is walking ahead of me constantly moving the carrot on a stick into the distance. The carrot is a fixed point and at some point I shall feast upon it.

Do I think classic is a better game than retail? It's certainly not as pretty, but it's been so long since I enjoyed retail that my opinion is likely not a balanced one. What I do know is that classic, for me (I don't profess to be the voice of the disenfranchised masses) feels like a game I can invest in again, even if I'm investing in much smaller amounts than I used to. Not because it's better, but because it's attainable.

If this means that I've turned into a 'lolz casual n00b' in my middle years then so be it, part of the joy of passing 40 is no longer caring about being called a 'lolz casual n00b'. I'll grumble all the way to Naxx.

[MoanaLisa]

Classic feels like it has a fixed endpoint (eventually Naxx). I feel like I can just chill, take my time, divert from the path to go and pick a few herbs without the game's final point moving away from me quicker than I can get there.

I tend to agree with you that this is something about Classic that gets mentioned now and then but hasn't been talked about enough. Classic has a beginning, an end and isn't going anywhere. That makes it very different psychologically from BFA and beyond. I do think that Blizzard has made a serious mistake in constructing expansions with temporary content and essentially demanding that you keep up to be able to see it. Because if you don't, there's a good chance you'll never ever see it. It's a thing and it's important to a lot of people. You have all the time you need.

[Aggrophobic]

Like many others, I played vanilla 'back in the day'.

I was under no illusions about classic. What people seem to forget is that a large part of the challenge of vanilla was simply not knowing what you were doing. Raids felt epic because you'd never been in a group of 40 people trying to play together to execute even the most basic of tactics (the idea of dying to Baron Geddon's bomb seems ridiculous now right?). By modern standards, these raids weren't all that difficult (I went on to main tank Heroic Lich King and comparing that to Raggy is just plain daft) but we got into those raids without 10 years of MMO experience behind us and it 'felt' epic.

Questing didn't feel as tedious, because we hadn't spent 10 years slowly becoming numb to the whole concept of questing (honestly, there was a first time you collected 10 wolf tails). The community felt more balanced because we hadn't learned how to judge other people yet, there simply wasn't enough information to fine tune your preferences and you tended not to care all that much about the fact the tank had cloth spirit bracers on in Deadmines.

Look, I could ramble for hours, but I won't. Suffice to say that 'newness' was a huge amount of the appeal and you can almost taste it when you hear the way people remember vanilla. They don't necessarily want the game itself back, they want the feeling of it all being new and exciting and epic. They want a time before we all got burned out doing effectively the same things for 10 years. Let's also be honest when we say that isn't happening.

So, why does classic appeal to a grumpy old man?

It's about attainability. These days I'm 40. I'm not the younger man that had all the time in the world for video games. As fond as my memories are, when I think about returning to retail it just all feels so daunting. I'm so far behind both in terms of character and knowledge, and even if I can just about scrape back into endgame on limited time, there will always be that steadily moving goalpost of 'the next expansion' looming ahead of me.

Classic feels like it has a fixed endpoint (eventually Naxx). I feel like I can just chill, take my time, divert from the path to go and pick a few herbs without the game's final point moving away from me quicker than I can get there. Sure, there will be thousands of people through Naxx before I get there, but I will get there. It won't have been replaced by something even further away. Noone is walking ahead of me constantly moving the carrot on a stick into the distance. The carrot is a fixed point and at some point I shall feast upon it.

Do I think classic is a better game than retail? It's certainly not as pretty, but it's been so long since I enjoyed retail that my opinion is likely not a balanced one. What I do know is that classic, for me (I don't profess to be the voice of the disenfranchised masses) feels like a game I can invest in again, even if I'm investing in much smaller amounts than I used to. Not because it's better, but because it's attainable.

If this means that I've turned into a 'lolz casual n00b' in my middle years then so be it, part of the joy of passing 40 is no longer caring about being called a 'lolz casual n00b'. I'll grumble all the way to Naxx.

Yeah but you know, if it adds enough subs it'll move over to TBC and it'll actually have an end. Funny how that works.

[schwarzkopf]

I object to OP's hypothesis - I'm a grump old man ... and Vanilla doesn't really appeal to me at all.

[Loosecannon]

I agree with a lot of this, it's well written and sensible.

I never played classic (joined at start of TBC as an 18 year old). I therefore have a similar attitude when it comes to the game.

I tend to get amused all of the 'muh vanilla was old and bad' threads. But I guess I quite like going back and playing old games a lot (Chrono Trigger, early FF games, Deus Ex). Many of these are probably considered old and bad by today's gamers, but I still enjoy them, same with Classic.

One thing I will say - this thread won't get many replies precisely because it's well written and reasonable. Unfortunately if you want to foster a discussion on here you usually have to sperg out about something divisive

[Rolopolo]

I object to OP's hypothesis - I'm a grump old man ... and Vanilla doesn't really appeal to me at all.

No, you're a pessimistic miserable old man.

Infracted: A little more respect please for other site users. Off-topic and potentially derailing. {MoanaLisa}

[Eroginous]

Do I think classic is a better game than retail? It's certainly not as pretty, but it's been so long since I enjoyed retail that my opinion is likely not a balanced one. What I do know is that classic, for me (I don't profess to be the voice of the disenfranchised masses) feels like a game I can invest in again, even if I'm investing in much smaller amounts than I used to. Not because it's better, but because it's attainable.

For the most part, I agree with your sentiments about the journey not being rushed, and how good it feels to be able to enjoy something new again. However I disagree with your idea of live being beyond your comprehension. Cataclsym is what redefined World of Warcraft development and design philosophy. Since then, you've gotten more of the same. Everything getting pushed towards accessibility, it seems at this point they're just changing things so they don't stagnate. No one has any clue what a good MMO looks like, and it translates heavily through the player base.

Players who prefer any given expansion, are usually the players who started playing in that expansion - can't really accept what they say when the people with substantially more experience would likely pick a different, older version of the game. If you wanted to, you could probably sum up the current state of the game pretty accurately, it's nearly identical to when Cata launched. Really, has not changed.

[MoanaLisa]

If you wanted to, you could probably sum up the current state of the game pretty accurately, it's nearly identical to when Cata launched. Really, has not changed.

I would argue that the state of the game and community is more like the end of Cataclysm than the start but it's true that something changed during that expansion and only gotten worse since.

[Nestoras]

Just logged out from a morning session. It is Saturday in EU, I can afford it luckily enough!
With half level rested XP, managed to ding 28 (and 2 bars towards 29 mind you!)
Checked my /played right before dinging 28, couple of minutes over 3 hours! Lack of knowledge for optimum paths made me walk back and forth from Raven hill to Darkshire. My deadmines quest just turned gray incompleted. I couldn't care less.
You re making a point about a fixed goal, though I disagree about the moving goalpost of the modern version. It is just about things becoming "gray" so fast in modern wow that they don't matter. It is VERY hard to do higher mythic keys and Mythic raiding, but so few people are actually doing them, while the rest are the LFR heroes and the mount collectors. You can see the content, the content is insignificant, blizzard is treating it wrongly having only current "season" (what a horrible new term, like the game turned into a diablo hybrid).
In the old world I cant one shot mobs that are way bellow the "grey" threshold. I was right now struggling to kill mobs at level 28 while I was 27 (those pesky worgens). Plague Spreaders were cursing me for 5 minutes and I couldn't get rid of the bloody 5 minutes debuff! Now I remember their names! Mobs have identity, world is more real, walking makes you part of it. I want to live this experience, and I am glad that I am having this opportunity. I am not in a hurry at all!
In 3 weeks I recorded about 3 days /played across 4 toons, with this final week being significantly toned down, but I am around and I will be around for the months to come!

[TwoMana]

If this means that I've turned into a 'lolz casual n00b' in my middle years then so be it, part of the joy of passing 40 is no longer caring about being called a 'lolz casual n00b'. I'll grumble all the way to Naxx.

Agree with most of your post - Classic is incredibly "casual friendly" game. The systems are extremely simple and you can leave/pick-off at your leisure. Modern WoW is very "hard core" oriented push - constantly steering your towards end-game, higher m+ keys, more difficult raids etc etc - it also constantly demands you to log on and play so "you don't fall behind" - and then invalidates your progress every season. It's a tough game if you're not 20-year old college student with unlimited time.

Classic got the casual approach right - and that's why WoW became wildly popular in the first place. In many ways it is a perfect "casual noob" game (and that's good).

[meheez]

40 is not old man, ppl running world records at 34.

[schwarzkopf]

No, you're a pessimistic miserable old man

I'm realistic - something optimistic people call pessimistic

PS - I didn't take offence at your comment, because it is a common view people hold of me.

[HuxNeva]

These days I'm 40.

You do realize the average WoW player is 35? You're well into the 'normal' age range for the game.

[McNeil]

40 is not even that old. Maybe if we were back in Medieval times, but now its pretty normal to reach 85.

[Wildmoon]

Classic is very relaxing to play. Various activies don't feel pointless and I don't really feel the rush.

[kamuimac]

I tend to agree with you that this is something about Classic that gets mentioned now and then but hasn't been talked about enough. Classic has a beginning, an end and isn't going anywhere. That makes it very different psychologically from BFA and beyond. I do think that Blizzard has made a serious mistake in constructing expansions with temporary content and essentially demanding that you keep up to be able to see it. Because if you don't, there's a good chance you'll never ever see it. It's a thing and it's important to a lot of people. You have all the time you need.

well in order for BfA to have such fixed point it would have to be last expansion of wow.

i dont blame people for wanting this. but its not healthy for game.

if people want to be stuck in past let them with legacy expansions. while majority will just progress further.

[HuxNeva]

I tend to agree with you that this is something about Classic that gets mentioned now and then but hasn't been talked about enough. Classic has a beginning, an end and isn't going anywhere. That makes it very different psychologically from BFA and beyond. I do think that Blizzard has made a serious mistake in constructing expansions with temporary content and essentially demanding that you keep up to be able to see it. Because if you don't, there's a good chance you'll never ever see it. It's a thing and it's important to a lot of people. You have all the time you need.

They got modern WoW systemically to perfection: on the one hand there is 'always something to do' to progress your character, on the other hand you are never that far behind due to diminishing returns placed on the forerunners and plenty of catch-up given to the stragglers.
But they do not take into account the psychology enough, were most players experience this as a forced endless grind just to stay in the relative same spot, while there is no sense of accomplishment as the goalposts for most are displaced before or just after you reach them.
An MMO needs ebb and flow, rather than a constant swim against a current.

[kamuimac]

Classic is very relaxing to play. Various activies don't feel pointless and I don't really feel the rush.

i wish i could feel that "relaxation " that people speak about - but for me quests like kill 120 condors to get 5 items because droprates are garbage are not "relaxing" only frustrating. when 1 quest makes you be bored and want to log out its not a good relaxing game design

[cparle87]

They got it mechanically to perfection: on the one hand there is 'always something to do' to progress your character, on the other hand you are never that far behind due to di;diminishing returns placed on the forerunners and plenty of catch-up given to the stragglers.
But they do not take into account the psychology enough, were most players experience this as a forced endless grind just to stay in the relative same spot, while there is no sense of accomplishment as the goalposts for most are displaced before or just after you reach them.
An MMO needs ebb and flow, rather than a constant swim against a current.

I agree greatly with both yours and Moana's posts. Sadly I think after the "no content" complaints of WoD Blizzard is deathly afraid of players being able to say "This character is done until next patch." There's always going to be a higher key, higher titanforge, another socket, more AP, something, to squeeze a couple percentage points out of for the hardcore. Sadly, like you said, this mindset has infected everyone. Even the casual players feel pressured into this advancement even when they don't enjoy it out of the irrational fear of being inadaquete, which causes burnout and resentment.

- - - Updated - - -

i wish i could feel that "relaxation " that people speak about - but for me quests like kill 120 condors to get 5 items because droprates are garbage are not "relaxing" only frustrating. when 1 quest makes you be bored and want to log out its not a good relaxing game design

Let's not forget hoofless zhevras, clawless lions, brainless basilisks, liverless lizards, heartless wolves, headless raptors, and a bazillion other things. One of my favorites is when you need to collect weapons off a mob and you can literally see them in the mob's hands after you've killed it but don't get it as a drop. Makes me wish for the Diablo 2 Barbarian Find Item skill again.

[kamuimac]

They got modern WoW systemically to perfection: on the one hand there is 'always something to do' to progress your character, on the other hand you are never that far behind due to diminishing returns placed on the forerunners and plenty of catch-up given to the stragglers.
But they do not take into account the psychology enough, were most players experience this as a forced endless grind just to stay in the relative same spot, while there is no sense of accomplishment as the goalposts for most are displaced before or just after you reach them.
An MMO needs ebb and flow, rather than a constant swim against a current.

and where is that "flow" in classic ?