Increase boss hp in Molten Core

[ketelol]

MC is fine as it is, i mean, retail raids, if you delete mythic dificulty are just bullshit most guilds on heroic dificulty clear them in 1-2 days at tops so... i don't get all the mc to ez and stuff, its supposed to be an introductory raid.

[OrcsRLame]

Of course top guilds will faceroll everything, they've already cleared it many times.

You could release mythic Kil'jaeden again and Method would kill it instantly because they've already done 700 pulls on it and know it perfectly.

Fuck no they wouldn't. Wipes on KJ were extremely common for top guilds even after it was full farm status and nerfed to the ground.

[Bigbazz]

Please provide patch notes for these "DRASTIC" buffs. I await your links, all patch notes are archived and readily available, and you claim to know all about the changes, so please provide blizzards patch notes outlining these buffs.

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This is somewhat true for mc (although drastically exaggerated) but it is not true for later raids. Watching the "vanilla was hard" crew desperately move the goalposts is the best thing about classic tbh.

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Again, please link the patch notes that indicate these extreme and drastic DPS increases. Not a single person has done so yet.

Go read the patch notes yourself you lazy bum, don't come into a discussion and expect others to do your research for you, if you don't know then that means the first thing you should do is go find out. Many classes got overhauls, itemisation got an overhaul (like you didn't have people with monstrous + healing from level59 green items, many existing items got heavily buffed in favour of their intended use) and the debuffs slots got doubled.

Go read through the patch notes, go research the difference between launch gear and gear by 1.12 (it's a popular topic on PS forums, you will find plenty on it). Do your own research, don't come to a discussion and tell people their arguments aren't valid because you don't know shit.4

[Annelie]

Again, please link the patch notes that indicate these extreme and drastic DPS increases. Not a single person has done so yet.

Why do you think bosses go down faster than before if there is no DPS increse? You do know that DPS stand for Damage Per Second right?

And do you think peple have become better att pressing their one damage ability button today than they where in 2005?

[Unholyground]

Considering we all talked about this before and the answer is simple, people sucked hard back then compared to today and you need to get over it. MC is an entry level raid and was never meant to be that hard sorry to burst your nostalgiabubble.

[therealstegblob]

You're not necessarily wrong. I'm just kinda surprised the no changes people aren't PISSED right now. Maybe cause most of them are not there yet.

Dude, the "no changes" goons were the first and foremost ones who were abusing layering, raid xp and any other exploit they could to powerlevel directly to 60 as fast as possible so they could plow through MC.

They don't want "no changes", they're the biggest hypocritical fuckbenches ever.

[zorkuus]

And do you think peple have become better att pressing their one damage ability button today than they where in 2005?

In a sense, yes. It's got to do with everything that goes into raiding that people have gotten better at. Boss mechanics and so on. A lot of people were just TERRIBAD FUCKING AWFUL at the game back in the days, sorry to burst your bubble.

[lollerlaban]

Why do you think bosses go down faster than before if there is no DPS increse? You do know that DPS stand for Damage Per Second right?

And do you think peple have become better att pressing their one damage ability button today than they where in 2005?

Yes, they literally have. +500ms people with sub 15 fps in a raid where they back peddle and keyboard turn and half of them were afk trying to mouse click through their spellbook, you do the math.

[Nozuka]

Why do you think bosses go down faster than before if there is no DPS increse? You do know that DPS stand for Damage Per Second right?

And do you think peple have become better att pressing their one damage ability button today than they where in 2005?

Pretty much everyone is using the best talent builds today and most of the people seem to go for the BIS items. Back then most people just used whatever they thought would be best. And most people already have alot of experience with raiding today, which they lacked back then. And class composition is also highly optimized.

[Tekkommo]

And do you think peple have become better att pressing their one damage ability button today than they where in 2005?

The only class I know that pushes one button is a Mage, and that is only in single target fights. The main spec for a Mage in Classic is the Arcane build, was this also the same in Vanilla? Or was that spec popularised on private servers?

People also didn't know their true BiS like they do today.

Think about how many healers you had in raid that used the default raid frames.

[Seranthor]

Starting in 1.12 patch for the release of a server is a change. It comes with class/talent/ and gear buffs that pretty drastically increase dps.

It's no secret that MC is a joke right now. First time Rag kills with no submerge, and 30 second kills on most other bosses. Mana never matters in this environment, and that is super counter to the original design of raiding MC. That has other ramifications, like mana potions and fire prot potions being worth alot less.

Blizzard was lazy. They didn't want to do a progressive patch release plan, instead giving us this. That ship has sailed, I won't dwell on that point.

So, it seems the right thing to do would be to add HP to bosses.

I'm not saying it has to be perfect, but at the very least, mana should be a concern on the first few clears, or else this all feels meaningless, like retail.

Everquest had to do the *exact* same thing, for basically the exact same reasons. Those of us who played those servers saw this, and some other issues, coming a mile away.

Dont these bosses have exactly the same HP as vanilla? Or, are you claiming that Blizzard didn't put enough HP on the MC bosses?

[PrairieChicken]

Even if they released it in the first patch format it would still be a ezpz cakewalk, yes raggy would die like 1~2 days later but my point still stands

[Ealyssa]

I wait with baited breath for the non-existant parses from first time MC clears in late 04/early 05 that had pre-submerge Rag kills and 30 second kills on other bosses.

People being terrible at PVE back then means obviously shit about the actual difficulty of the content.

MC was easy, period.

[Moonsorrow]

What people tend to forget is that most people clearing MC already are not your casual family and friends raider. Those are not even close to 60 by now.

The people doing it right now have probably done it countless times on private servers and have done extensive research on pre raid bis and talent builds. 16 debuff slots and reworked talents and balancing fixes definitely make MC even easier.

However I'm sure that MC will be aen entry challenge for most casual guilds, they won't one shot everything but they will not need to progress several weeks 3-4 nights a week. Therefore to increase HP/Dmg would punish the wrong people.

In addition the later raids, AQ 20 & AQ40 were designed with the new talents and fixes in mind. Therefore we'll see how long they stand a chance...

[huth]

Yes, they literally have. +500ms people with sub 15 fps in a raid where they back peddle and keyboard turn and half of them were afk trying to mouse click through their spellbook, you do the math.

Mousing through their spellbook? Hunters were literally afk watching TV. And i mostly know that because we occassionally had to tell them that the boss was dead because they still stood there while we were waiting at the next one.

[phattsao]

It's obvious that something is off. If you want to say it's possible to kill Rag in blue gear, OK, I'll buy it, maybe very skilled players who really prepped.
But killing in Rag in blue gear BEFORE the first submerge? No way. Something is way off with the math. HP. Resists. Something. Anyone who says "but Blizzard tested it" need only look at all of the XP exploits, the layering exploits, even the Demo shout bug...

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Lolz. As i suspected - no matter how you please people who want Vanilla experience, they will find things wrong with it and try to make people believe that fairy tale. I played vanilla 3 months prior to BC release, got my priest to 60 and was an afk noob in MC one time while the guild cleared everything up to Rag ( my internet was pretty shit back then ). But - feel free to believe that 1.1 fairy tale and Classic being hard, you go girl

P.S. I am pretty sure if Blizz released 1.1 and people blasted through it, someone would find it not being *the classic no changes experience* once again

So you got carried through MC when it was on farm during an expac pre-patch and you think that proves....what exactly?

[Naiyano]

The people doing it right now have probably done it countless times on private servers and have done extensive research on pre raid bis and talent builds. 16 debuff slots and reworked talents and balancing fixes definitely make MC even easier.

However I'm sure that MC will be aen entry challenge for most casual guilds, they won't one shot everything but they will not need to progress several weeks 3-4 nights a week. Therefore to increase HP/Dmg would punish the wrong people.

I can only speak for my guild and no. Some played private server, some did never do this. I once leveled a mage to 60 and quit right after on a private server years ago. That's it. And we kill bosses in under 90 seconds. The hardest part of MC is to not body pull trash for most people. And trash after Geddon is harder than any boss in there tbh.

It's obvious that something is off. If you want to say it's possible to kill Rag in blue gear, OK, I'll buy it, maybe very skilled players who really prepped.
But killing in Rag in blue gear BEFORE the first submerge? No way. Something is way off with the math. HP. Resists. Something. Anyone who says "but Blizzard tested it" need only look at all of the XP exploits, the layering exploits, even the Demo shout bug...

If I have this correct Ragnaros has 1.080.000 HP for example. Let's say you play a 2 tank/ 10 healer/ 28 dps setup. Ragnaros has a 3 minute submerge timer. Thats 1.080.000 / 28 / 180 = 214 dps per damage dealer to kill it before submerge if no healer or tank does any damage. Thats green/blue gear dps and totally possible if everyone is level 60. That's also something people were incredibly proud of in 2005 btw

[Blackmist]

And then you've just got to take slightly longer to kill them. There's still no challenge. It's still "hold this boss here and hit it, if somebody gets cursed, dispell it. If somebody takes damage, heal it."

That was all we got up to like, AQ and ZG...

[Dudenoso]

OP, you have to reach 60 and actually start raiding before your opinion on raid difficulty can be taken seriously.

You have to publish a scientific paper on machine learning before the we'll accept the means you calculate.

Also, for the people saying 1.2 vastly buffed people compared to 1.1:
https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_1.1.1
https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_1.1.2
https://wowwiki.fandom.com/wiki/Patch_1.2.0

Lulz. I guess bosses took a lot longer to kill when you had to spend half of the time doing nothing due to threat issues.

It surely made the healers cry if for whatever the fuck reason you rolled with bear tank.

[toffmcsoft]

Who cares about the PVE portion of the game being faceroll?
We knew MC was a joke, we knew the dungeons were a joke and it was all to be expected.

Thank god we don't need to waste our time spending hours on end in starting dungeons/raids.

BWL will be more of a challenge and then AQ even more and then we all get to have fun with Naxx when everyone thinks it'll be faceroll and then they keep wiping on 4 horseman.

Classic wow fun is in the World PVP & spending time in the world.
If you're not enjoying it, then stop playing .