Calia new leader of the forsaken?

[Terongor]

what does arthas actions have to do with anything? Calia is the heir to Lordaeron, why would we want an ex scarlet crusade as Forsaken leader?

You know because victims or close ones of murdered NEVER BLAME THE MURDERERS FAMILY OR FEEL RESENTMENT TOWARDS THEM in irl....... wait yeah in many cases they do....

[Super Dickmann]

In the follow up quest where you spy on her, she's told that all she needs to really do is act as a beacon of hope. If the Forsaken are clinging to hope as Sylvanas claims--and Calia is told she just needs to act as that symbol...

She's going to be a racial leader for someone and that's nearly certain. Filling in for Sylvanas wouldn't even be a stretch anymore, since the Forsaken mostly view her as a symbol anyways. Voss didn't even have anything bad to say when you report back to her.

Calia is guaranteed to be Forsaken leader. The entirety of the Forsaken converting to Anduinism at the drop of a hat, Sylvanas condemning them for having 'hope' while at the same time Lilian is in awe about how Calia can bring them hope settles it. It's astounding how thoroughly this race has been destroyed in the span of five minutes. It took years to deal so much damage to the night elves.

[Yuugumo]

Look at the horde fanbois lose their shit when the rightful successor to Lordaeron and it's people has a prospect to lead them once more.

BTW Im not sure she will lead the forsaken. She may take a fraction of the undead and convert them to lightbound undead. The next leader of the (evil boi) forsaken will probably be Voss, or Nathanos will return.

[Aucald]

Voss and Calia would make an interesting duumvirate for the Forsaken - Voss tempering Calia's nature with some much-needed practicality and pragmatism, and Calia ensuring that the Forsaken strive to hold onto hope and not indulge the darker aspects of their own natures. I could see those two doing a lot of good for the Forsaken, if they could work together to some degree.

[Sharby]

the point is what barriers, for what? what the bonds will stay?

I said in another thread but I'll repeat here.

I think that grouping/questing/pvp/instances will and should all be crossfaction going forward. Minus race-specific stories, the reason being that in my opinion, for the health the game, the story should NEVER impede gameplay, and factions have hindered WoW for as long as they've existed. Removing PVE/PVP barriers would be one of the best things they will ever do for WoW's longevity. Especially since its the ONLY MMO out of the big three (ESO,WoW,FF14) that has such rigid story restrictions.

But I think a lot of pre-9.0 content should remain locked, specifically stuff like mounts/armor/reps/pre-9.0 quests/capital cities and starting zones. I agree that having cities be open to all would create more lore problems than its worth. Not to mention all the work it would take for very little gain.

Ye of little faith. Blizzard can always do worse. They have consistently mastered that art with each and every expansion.

Lol I'm not holding my breath dw.

But I would be wholly content with having the Unification being written stupidly if it means we get tons of gameplay improvements, since I feel gameplay is the most important part of an MMO and the story has been less than stellar anyways. Story should be the icing the cake, but for some reason WoW likes to make it compete with gameplay which means both have to suffer.

[Combatbutler]

Look at the horde fanbois lose their shit when the rightful successor to Lordaeron and it's people has a prospect to lead them once more.

BTW Im not sure she will lead the forsaken. She may take a fraction of the undead and convert them to lightbound undead. The next leader of the (evil boi) forsaken will probably be Voss, or Nathanos will return.

What makes you think only horde players can't stomach calia? She has almost no interesting qualities to her character, except maybe being a naaru puppet.

[Ealyssa]

Seriously, we need to create something like unifaction survival guide. So far only safe spaces I see is becoming a miserable night elf fan or rolling a Mag'har and pretending like you don't know what's going on.

Or maybe get a clue and stop playing wow ?

If all you want is "herp me am evil derp", in a game where we save the world. Every two year. For 15 years.

You are really stupid...

[Infraction]

[UnluckyAmateur]

And calia is an alliance character so it would make many people delete their forsaken characters because it doesn't fit the faction at all.

Originally their second in command was a god damn demon and so it would be extremely weird.

She's friendly with alliance leaders but that doesn't make her an alliance character unless I missed something? Also factions are most likely gonna be dissolved outside of gameplay so that's irrelevant.

[Mehrunes]

What makes you think only horde players can't stomach calia? She has almost no interesting qualities to her character, except maybe being a naaru puppet.

And even when it comes to those I'd take Yrel over her any day.

[Super Dickmann]

She's friendly with alliance leaders but that doesn't make her an alliance character unless I missed something? Also factions are most likely gonna be dissolved outside of gameplay so that's irrelevant.

The fact that she has thematically jack shit to do with the Forsaken is what matters. That she's had exclusive interaction only with the Alliance is another reason why she shouldn't have the role, but given that the only remaining Horde racial leader who isn't an Anduin groupie is Gallywix and he's about to be replaced too that's almost passe.

[Combatbutler]

And even when it comes to those I'd take Yrel over her any day.

Well Calia can hardly compete with an entire subjugated world, with several naaru present ready to strike.

[Arrashi]

Voss and Calia would make an interesting duumvirate for the Forsaken - Voss tempering Calia's nature with some much-needed practicality and pragmatism, and Calia ensuring that the Forsaken strive to hold onto hope and not indulge the darker aspects of their own natures. I could see those two doing a lot of good for the Forsaken, if they could work together to some degree.

Like removing the flavor and introducing alliance-pattern blandness ?

[Syegfryed]

I think that grouping/questing/pvp/instances will and should all be crossfaction going forward.

except pvp i agree with this, as long it don't happen in the cities.

the story should NEVER impede gameplay,

in my view, the gameplay should never fuck up the lore too, we are fine for years with this kind of gameplay, lore and the story is much more emotional and the damages done to her are more reflective

. Especially since its the ONLY MMO out of the big three (ESO,WoW,FF14) that has such rigid story restrictions.

one of the reasons wow stand tall is how factions and story matter way more than those above, the eso factions are a mess and nothing matters.

Like i said, they can do some things like crossfactions groups, without breaking the lore, but more than that is unnecessary

- - - Updated - - -

Like removing the flavor and introducing alliance-pattern blandness ?

the flavor of being a sylvanas worshiper?

[Arrashi]

the flavor of being a sylvanas worshiper?

The flavor of not being generic lawful good.

[Super Dickmann]

the flavor of being a sylvanas worshiper?

Among other things, yes. The Forsaken intro told you flat out you were a cruel piece of shit who was there as Sylvanas's enforcer and were there to remove those in her way. That your relationship with other is transactional and that they're out to get you and you're out to get them. Every single Forsaken story for fifteen years has taken that as the baseline, up until now, when it's turned right around to the Forsaken caring about honor and hope on the basis of a five minute cutscene.

I say without a hint of doubt that there are zero people who rolled Forsaken to play humans with a skin condition who just want to make friends.

[Explorer]

Yes she is. And that's just a proper dynasty restoration. We'll finally have Menethil ruling Lordaeron again. Undead Menethil for undead Lordaeron.
Think of Sylvanas as Napoleon and Menethils as Bourbons.

[Syegfryed]

Among other things, yes. The Forsaken intro told you flat out you were a cruel piece of shit who was there as Sylvanas's enforcer and were there to remove those in her way. That your relationship with other is transactional and that they're out to get you and you're out to get them. Every single Forsaken story for fifteen years has taken that as the baseline, up until now, when it's turned right around to the Forsaken caring about honor and hope on the basis of a five minute cutscene.

no other race was safe from changing, the forsaken just take longer, saying that, to me is good know that Forsakens are not just Zealots of her, and they have some free thinking, emotions or other preferences

i for one, always and will always hate, being leaded by an elf, i would rather an rotting forsaken monarch leader, like the Trollbane dude, find Calia also shit, but i have no sympathy here, this is called karma

I say without a hint of doubt that there are zero people who rolled Forsaken to play humans with a skin condition who just want to make friends.

you would be surprised, but as my book goes, im pretty sure there are some people who could roll a forsaken as someone wanting a second chnce in life, or any other rp he wants, not rly a sylvanas zealot who saw her as god, especially after the cata intro.

The flavor of not being generic lawful good.

being lawful good or lawful evil is always generic to me

[ganoesz12]

Personally i've been glad to see Calia Menethil come back to the storyline - and on one hand, i'd like to see her become leader because by law of succession, she is the rightful queen to the throne of Lordaeron. But... gotta admit. I've come to really like Lilian Voss. I think she should become the true leader of the Forsaken. She's had a lot of character growth over the years.

[Archibalde]

Calia is the heir to Lordaeron, why would we want an ex scarlet crusade as Forsaken leader?

The former leader was a high elf so that argument doesn't really make much sense. Besides, Lilian is a pretty great example of what it means to be Forsaken, seeing how she was literally forsaken by her own people.

Lilian would also make a much more interesting leader. Her methods are not exactly "good" but she fights for what she believes is right. She cares for her people as evidenced by the way she took care of Amalia Stone and Thomas Zelling. She clearly puts a lot of importance on letting the Forsaken have their free will since it was a big thing for her when Derek Proudmore was raised from the dead.

Personally I'm hoping they'll go for a council instead of just one leader. Kind of like what the Dwarves have going on. Have Calia, Lilian, Master Apothecary Faranell and perhaps one of the priests from the Cult of the Forgotten Shadow.

[Super Dickmann]

no other race was safe from changing, the forsaken just take longer, saying that, to me is good know that Forsakens are not just Zealots of her, and they have some free thinking, emotions or other preferences

i for one, always and will always hate, being leaded by an elf, i would rather an rotting forsaken monarch leader, like the Trollbane dude, find Calia also shit, but i have no sympathy here, this is called karma

The Forsaken did have all those things, things that are now entirely bunk. Humanity's dislike of the Forsaken? Nonexistent. Undeath damaging one's moral compass and preventing one from living as they did before? Absent. The Light rejecting them? Lol Lightforged undead. Strained relationship with the Horde with justified suspicion going both ways? Lol, muh honor. As for karma, there is a sense of perverse glee on the part of the writers in completely wrecking the Forsaken from a meta perspective rather than even attempting to deliver in-story consequences.

All prior content without exception has these traits. Calia does not. Calia is a scorched earth destruction of the entire race replacing it with humans with a skin condition, indistinguishable from their living counterparts, both in their commitment to Anduin and in their moral compass. Orcs under Thrall and orcs under Garrosh are both orcs, even if the former are boring as sin. Forsaken under Sylvanas and Calia have nothing in common. It's as if the racial slot is simply replaced. The only race to be as completely counter to what it was sold as are night elves.