Mega-Thread: Impeachment Proceedings & Inquiry of Trump

[Shadowferal]

Well, if anything can be said about Nunes, once bought, he stays bought.

[Felya]

@Skroe I think missed a couple of big ones...

Conservatism redefined solely in the image of Trump. Where conservative values are meaningless, but only requires loyalty to Trump... not America, rule of law or conservative values... only Trump.

Expansion of executive power or in essence federalism. It’s kinda covered by your states rights, but goes hand in hand with it. Trump’s use of national security and executive orders, is redefining the power of executive branch, that even Bernie claimed he will use to push his agenda.

[Crispin]

I listened to Nunes. He does what Nunes alsways says. Which is to shill for someone that real conservatives said was unfit to be President back in 2015.

Really. Throw Trump overboard and go with Pence. What the hell is it about Donald-fucking-Trump you people are so attached to? He is not conservative. He his a charltan who surrounds himself with D-list grifters, all basically executive branch looters. If you legitimately want to advance conservatism you have a clear option: President Pence and Vice President David Perdue.

There is nothing to gain by throwing yourself on this disposable shitbag President, who never works in the national interest and does not advance conservatism, in order to save him.

Really. Consider.

Legislative agenda? Trump hasn't had one for 18 months.

Dereglatory agenda? His 93% loss rate is wholly a product of his amateur hour staff not preparing for legal cases were the onus is on them to make the argument.

Foreign policy? He's manged to alienate most of our closest allies and makes nice with dictators.

Abortion? Far from changing the game on it, he's engaged in a handful of PR stunts to mollify the rubes but has brought about no change.

Government spending and the budget? Under him deficits have exploded.

The budget? He plays no role in it.

Gun Control? He's looking to be the President who will oversee the biggest expansion in Gun Control in 25 years, with the help of Democrats!

States rights? He has led an assault on states determining their own policy independent of federal policies, because it undermines HIS administration's agenda... handing a bazooka to the next Democratic President.


So I ask again... where is the conservatism from this gigantic loser? Two Supreme Court Justices that Pence would have nominated? Federal court judges that McConnell basically picks and tells the White House to nominate? A tax cut that had no positive political or economic effect?

There is _nothing_ here with this guys that advances conservatism. What's the point of 4 more years of Trump past 2020? What is the point of another 13 months past today? Just to say he did it?

What is the point of Donald Trump as President, precisely. And more accurately, what is the point of him over Pence, or him over any real conservative?

“Libtard tears”, thats about it

[Skroe]

Donald Trump's implicit threat, made in front of a room full of US Diplomats today, that the Whistleblower - who followed the law to the letter and was doing their duty - is a spy and should be executed for informing the legislature, is as bad - maybe worse - as the Ukraine call and the subsequent cover-up. This is unacceptable conduct for the chief executive of a nuclear weapons state.

He must resign immediately, or be removed. The end. Too far. It's time for him to go.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Don't start counting chickens just yet.

I said I'd be surprised, but I've been surprised before. And thinking hard about it, it could go either way. If there's damning evidence that Trump broke the law, a vote not to impeach wouldn't help the Republicans in 2020. There are many Republican legislators in districts that are rapidly turning blue because of Trump's antics. House and Senate members talk among themselves about these things, obviously. If it's starting to look like there will be enough votes among Republicans to remove Trump, the entire GOP will flip so that they're on the "winning" side. If they rally everyone and threaten the dissent among them, the dissenting side of the GOP will fall in line, but they have to weigh the threat of the other GOP members vs their own districts flipping.

[Thepersona]

Donald Trump's implicit threat, made in front of a room full of US Diplomats today, that the Whistleblower - who followed the law to the letter and was doing their duty - is a spy and should be executed for informing the legislature, is as bad - maybe worse - as the Ukraine call and the subsequent cover-up. This is unacceptable conduct for the chief executive of a nuclear weapons state.

He must resign immediately, or be removed. The end. Too far. It's time for him to go.

Wait what?
he told people that a whistleblower (in a fucking democracy, btw) has to be executed, for doing his fucking job, ratting out a fucking traitor (and remember, the penalty for treason is execution)?

[DocSavageFan]

I listened to Nunes. He does what Nunes alsways says. Which is to shill for someone that real conservatives said was unfit to be President back in 2015.

Nunes cited fact-based examples of numerous Dems committing 'as bad' or much worse "crimes" in regard to their attempts to influence a foreign nation for political purposes or for personal gain. Apparently you didn't actually listen to what he said.

[Skroe]

Wait what?
he told people that a whistleblower (in a fucking democracy, btw) has to be executed, for doing his fucking job?

https://www.axios.com/donald-trump-w...d3bf056bc.html

This just happened. He said this in a room full of US State Department Diplomats at the US Mission to the UN.

President Trump said Thursday at a private event in New York that the whistleblower whose complaint is at the heart of a controversy involving Ukraine is "almost a spy," reports the New York Times and Los Angeles Times.

"Basically, that person never saw the report, never saw the call, he never saw the call — heard something and decided that he or she, or whoever the hell they saw — they’re almost a spy. I want to know who’s the person, who’s the person who gave the whistleblower the information? Because that’s close to a spy. You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart? Right? The spies and treason, we used to handle it a little differently than we do now."
— President Trump, via the Los Angeles Times
https://www.latimes.com/politics/sto...s-almost-a-spy

Donald Trump must resign immediately.

[cubby]

Nunes does an excellent job of summarizing the conservative perspective. Please take a few minutes to listen to this cogent synopsis.

https://youtu.be/yZwaHKuhPuY

If that's the conservative perspective, it's just more confirmation that the entire Republican Party is insane. "Information warfare"?!?!? You mean, "bringing out the truth because Trump and cohorts tried to cover it up?".

You just confirmed how utterly unhinged the GOP is with reality. Believing this summary is evidence of insanity.

[Thepersona]

If that's the conservative perspective, it's just more confirmation that the entire Republican Party is insane. "Information warfare"?!?!? You mean, "bringing out the truth because Trump and cohorts tried to cover it up?".

You just confirmed how utterly unhinged the GOP is with reality. Believing this summary is evidence of insanity.

In reality, Conservatism is largelly about loyalty. To people, to old ideals, to the old way of life, to religion. Even if those paradigms need to change, even if those tenets are largelly problematic, or are a thinly veiled excuse for having racism/homophobia/inequality, conservatives will not be happy to change them.

[Skroe]

New Yougov poll.
https://today.yougov.com/opi/surveys...94022/politics

76% of Democrats support impeachment.
32% of Republicans support impeachment.
51% of Independents support impeachment.

The politics of impeachment are a net positive for Democrats.

They must hurt Trump as much as possible with it going into 2020 and turn this into support for their candidate. Can Democrats be that vicious? Get on it.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Ah the court of public opinion, thanks for pointing out why social media is a backwards step in our society.

You're deliberately misrepresenting what "innocent until proven guilty" even means. But what else is new? In legal proceedings, there is no "innocence". There is a failure to prove guilt, and there is guilt. In impeachment hearings, the verdict is to determine whether what the president has done is worthy of removing him from office or not. Impeachment verdicts are not even ABOUT guilt or innocence.

But Trump already admitted to the quid pro quo with the President of Ukraine. He's guilty of it, he's guilty of abusing the power of the presidency, something laid out in the constitution. The verdict of the house and the senate will not change what Trump has done. It will merely dictate how justice moves forward with the crime.

[cubby]

Nunes cited fact-based examples of numerous Dems committing 'as bad' or much worse "crimes" in regard to their attempts to influence a foreign nation for political purposes or for personal gain. Apparently you didn't actually listen to what he said.

At what point does any of that being true change what Trump did? He broke the law. And then admitted it. Then provided evidence of it. And now looks to have covered it up. This conversation is about Trump. If other people broke the law, go investigate.

Why is that basic principle so confusing to you?

[Adam Jensen]

Nunes cited fact-based examples of numerous Dems committing 'as bad' or much worse "crimes" in regard to their attempts to influence a foreign nation for political purposes or for personal gain. Apparently you didn't actually listen to what he said.

Oh okay, so because Democrats committed crimes (allegedly), then Trump is off the hook.

Cool. Guess we can call off the impeachment.

[Thepersona]

https://www.axios.com/donald-trump-w...d3bf056bc.html

This just happened. He said this in a room full of US State Department Diplomats at the US Mission to the UN.



Donald Trump must resign immediately.

Ya know...
18 U.S. Code § 2381.Treason

Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 807; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(2)(J), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2148.)

[Machismo]

I'll need to find the reuters article but I did read an article that suggested that US note takers on the President's calls to foreign leaders are not supposed to transcribe but rather take notes; that is, they do not keep a word for word transcription.

That's also why they keep the recordings, just in case they do need a word-for-word transcript.

[cubby]

So your argument is that because there are murderers we should ignore rapists. Brilliant.

It's not even that good. @DocSavageFan's argument is that because someone thinks there might have been a break-in, we should ignore the rapists and murders, who have, by the way, already confessed.

The conservative "perspective" on this is that they are completely losing their shit. Insanity comes to mind.

[Skroe]

Who wants to listen to the chilling audio of Trump saying the whistleblower should be identified and executed in front of a bunch of US UN-mission diplomats this morning?

Well here it is. And it's sickening.



*cue nervous laughter* hahhaha we call could be next. *nervous laughter* oh god....


President Donald Trump must resign.

[cubby]

I'll need to find the reuters article but I did read an article that suggested that US note takers on the President's calls to foreign leaders are not supposed to transcribe but rather take notes; that is, they do not keep a word for word transcription.

I saw that article as well. Something about skipping the "um's" and "hmmmm's" and just getting the actual words down. Good thing there are tapes though....

- - - Updated - - -

Who wants to listen to the chilling audio of Trump saying the whistleblower should be identified and executed in front of a bunch of US UN-mission diplomats this morning?

Well here it is. And it's sickening.



*cue nervous laughter* hahhaha we call could be next. *nervous laughter* oh god....


President Donald Trump must resign.

That's just...horrifying. And people are handwaving it away as just more "oh that's just how trump talks".

He will never resign though. I wonder if we're seeing any kind of change of perspective in the GOP Senate.

[DocSavageFan]

If that's the conservative perspective, it's just more confirmation that the entire Republican Party is insane. "Information warfare"?!?!? You mean, "bringing out the truth because Trump and cohorts tried to cover it up?".

You just confirmed how utterly unhinged the GOP is with reality. Believing this summary is evidence of insanity.

So I'm insane for pointing out a huge double-standard. Got it.