Sylvanas was NEVER morally grey.

[wargone]

The only thing that was "morally Grey" About Sylvanas, was the lack of Grey Brain cells that wrote her plot.

[mrlowrider]

She is literally gray. Have you seen her skin tone?

[Verdugo]

She is literally gray. Have you seen her skin tone?

Its more of a blue-ish color.

[Mardux]

And people try to claim with straight faces that the current writers don't prefer Horde.

Right? Lol. It’s nearly as ridiculous as people claiming the writers aren’t obviously biased toward the alliance.

But I guess when the best options for alliance “bad guys” are one guy who mutinied a military fort and is barely mentioned again and one guy who the alliance disavowed the second they realized he started doing shady shit, there isn’t a lot of room to find other “bad guys”.

They could have mentioned Genn trying to instigate wars or foal and anduin ensuring the war continued, but nah. Our best ones are an old racist dude and someone who wasn’t in the alliance anymore. Gotta keep us looking rosy.

[Wangming]

But following a comic book villain isn't morally grey either. Neither is following a bland avatar of goodness. Nothing about the story is grey. The class design is grey. A bland uniform grey.

[owbu]

Its more of a blue-ish color.

Sylvanas being morally blue confirmed.

@OP welcome to politics/the internet. It doesn't matter how true something is, it matters how catchy you can make it sound. If it sticks in your brain, it's "true". And if someone proofs that it isn't, you can always distract him with personal attacks, strawmen and just more wrong statements to bait you away from the original discussion.

[Shakana]

Society, at least in the terms of populism and rhetoric, is also a construction in and of itself - a rhetorician "builds a public" when they want to create a basis for their arguments or position, even at times when actual public sentiment is divided or the opposite of the what the rhetorician claims.

You know what i think? I think nowadays people have too much to say regarding everything.
Before even there was tv shows that you would only watch and they do as they please cause there was no community on social media trying to boycott the tv show because of what they didn't like. When nowadays, you can even bring a tv show back by doing a petition, as it happened with Lucifer tv show.

Society brings all this critics to media in general and games. Everyone feels they have a saying and because of that, even creators get confused, only when there's too much backlash they start considering. Sometimes i wish we could only chill out and creators just have this amazing desire of making some epic out of passion, which sometimes doesn't seem the case and that's why there's backlash too. Other times, is just for the sake of having a saying.

- - - Updated - - -

[Terongor]

I still see people on this forum referring to Sylvanas as morally grey..

Let's get it clear: Blizzard NEVER said that Sylvanas was morally grey.

Ion said in the Q&A from April 26, that Azeroth is a world of grey. This statement was in relation to a question about "the horde being evil". The question was addressing the situation of e.g. the Taurens who have to follow a Warchief who in many ways goes against their way of life. This makes the situation of the Taurens morally grey.

The whole "morally gray" thing was always related to the different races of the Horde who had to decide if they wanted to follow Sylvanas despite of her actions. They were in a dilemma between their mandatory obligations towards the Warchief of the Horde and their own beliefs/values. Sylvanas was never morally grey. Her actions was not morally grey and Blizzard never said they were.

Q&A April 26: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUik9-2ygS8

Good and evil is only a matter of perspective only to be evil is that you are evil from EVERY PERSPECTIVE even your own perspective.
and sylvanas doesn't see herself as evil nor does her loyalists so she isn't evil from their perspective meaning they aren't evil.

[Kaver]

Good and evil is only a matter of perspective only to be evil is that you are evil from EVERY PERSPECTIVE even your own perspective.
and sylvanas doesn't see herself as evil nor does her loyalists so she isn't evil from their perspective meaning they aren't evil.

Fair enough.

But Blizzard still never said she was morally grey. So people are misquoting them when they say they did.

[Terongor]

Fair enough.

But Blizzard still never said she was morally grey. So people are misquoting them when they say they did.

Well everything is morally gray people should stop misquoting blizz yeah but she still is morally gray as she no everyone sees her black or white.

[Aucald]

You know what i think? I think nowadays people have too much to say regarding everything.
Before even there was tv shows that you would only watch and they do as they please cause there was no community on social media trying to boycott the tv show because of what they didn't like. When nowadays, you can even bring a tv show back by doing a petition, as it happened with Lucifer tv show.

Society brings all this critics to media in general and games. Everyone feels they have a saying and because of that, even creators get confused, only when there's too much backlash they start considering. Sometimes i wish we could only chill out and creators just have this amazing desire of making some epic out of passion, which sometimes doesn't seem the case and that's why there's backlash too. Other times, is just for the sake of having a saying.

There is truth to the old adage of "too many cooks spoileth the broth," as in a surplus of perspectives and points of view can make it exceedingly difficult to focus on a single line of narrative. While I do think there's merit to listening to one's fanbase and at least recognizing their tastes and points of view, I also think it is incumbent on us as the fanbase to judge the story being told, not the story we want or wish was being told - everyone gets excited about their own ideas, but we're not the authors or developers here and we didn't make the game or its story.

A sense of relative solipsism can be and to a degree is an issue with WoW, as we see the story in relation to how it effects just ourselves and we lose the fine sense of empathy/sympathy for how it effects other people. Goes back to that whole thing about speaking to subjective opinions as if they were objective facts - "I think this is true, and therefore that must have been the author's intent all along." Maybe it was, and maybe a given person is just reading it through an understandable but incorrect series of biases the author doesn't share in.

[Budong]

I wonder if morally grey is a paint color.

Why yes, I believe it is.

[Shakana]

There is truth to the old adage of "too many cooks spoileth the broth," as in a surplus of perspectives and points of view can make it exceedingly difficult to focus on a single line of narrative. While I do think there's merit to listening to one's fanbase and at least recognizing their tastes and points of view, I also think it is incumbent on us as the fanbase to judge the story being told, not the story we want or wish was being told - everyone gets excited about their own ideas, but we're not the authors or developers here and we didn't make the game or its story.

A sense of relative solipsism can be and to a degree is an issue with WoW, as we see the story in relation to how it effects just ourselves and we lose the fine sense of empathy/sympathy for how it effects other people. Goes back to that whole thing about speaking to subjective opinions as if they were objective facts - "I think this is true, and therefore that must have been the author's intent all along." Maybe it was, and maybe a given person is just reading it through an understandable but incorrect series of biases the author doesn't share in.

When a author makes a great piece of artwork, book or whatever, it will be recognized anyway, that happened with WoW and happened with Lord of the Rings.
WoW lore books are still one of my favorite to read ever and so are the lord of the rings one.

Sometimes you just need to let their creativity run wild. Asking to change stuff all the time and giving more and more ideas, can be something that disrupts the current project they are working on and be unfinished. Similar to a writer's block.

[Feanoro]

Right? Lol. It’s nearly as ridiculous as people claiming the writers aren’t obviously biased toward the alliance.

But I guess when the best options for alliance “bad guys” are one guy who mutinied a military fort and is barely mentioned again and one guy who the alliance disavowed the second they realized he started doing shady shit, there isn’t a lot of room to find other “bad guys”.

They could have mentioned Genn trying to instigate wars or foal and anduin ensuring the war continued, but nah. Our best ones are an old racist dude and someone who wasn’t in the alliance anymore. Gotta keep us looking rosy.

You mean Genn responding to having his son murdered, his people attacked for no reason, and his country blighted to death? Yeah, how dare he not be the usual idiot with unlimited forgiveness for the Horde. Foal? Do you mean Alonsus Faol? As for Prissypants, don't expect me to defend the Golden Child.

[Powerogue]

Not even in Warcraft 3, except that she was evil fighting a greater evil. That's what made her edgy and fun to watch. She's always been a monster twisting her hopelessness into an obsessive vengeance.

[Unholyground]

Why yes, I believe it is.

Lmao YES! You win!

[Lolites]

I still see people on this forum referring to Sylvanas as morally grey..

Let's get it clear: Blizzard NEVER said that Sylvanas was morally grey.

Ion said in the Q&A from April 26, that Azeroth is a world of grey. This statement was in relation to a question about "the horde being evil". The question was addressing the situation of e.g. the Taurens who have to follow a Warchief who in many ways goes against their way of life. This makes the situation of the Taurens morally grey.

The whole "morally gray" thing was always related to the different races of the Horde who had to decide if they wanted to follow Sylvanas despite of her actions. They were in a dilemma between their mandatory obligations towards the Warchief of the Horde and their own beliefs/values. Sylvanas was never morally grey. Her actions was not morally grey and Blizzard never said they were.

Q&A April 26: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUik9-2ygS8

this is a tip of iceberg, people twist their every word the way they want it, like when they said heritage for worgen and goblin will be soon and everyone called them liars when it wasnt in 8.2.5, which they never said it will be

[TheFirstOnes]

Everyone, other than Khadgar, is fucking insane.

Anduin: Wants peace in the world, and all that jazz. Is literally dismantling the war right now because he's such a fucking chad (Not at all morally grey, insane because of his winning streak).

Zappy Boi: Zaps and Caps (Insane cause he's young and is fighting with the big guns).

Thrall: Insane because he's literally fucking bipolar.

Jaina: Again, bipolar but with reasons.

The PC: Following because Blizzard can't give them the option to literally retire.

Sylvanas: You know why...

Saurfang: Same with Sylvanas...

Nathanos: AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

Genn: AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!

Khadgar: Wants no part of this war and dips. The literal G.

[Lolites]

You mean Genn responding to having his son murdered, his people attacked for no reason, and his country blighted to death? Yeah, how dare he not be the usual idiot with unlimited forgiveness for the Horde. Foal? Do you mean Alonsus Faol? As for Prissypants, don't expect me to defend the Golden Child.

tbh his son wasnt murdered, rather died in a war (and a bit of his own fault), war that already ended, same as for rest of things

now, does Genn have right to be pissed and wanting revenge? sure
does it make his attack of kind of allies in truce, during the worst time imaginable, against order of his high king in any way ok?
not at all, and if Varian was still king i believe he would be punished for it, at least a little

[kendro1200]

Nothing about BFA was morally grey. Every little bit of the story was a very bland black and white scenario. Blizzard is incapable of subtlety or original complex story telling, and they really need to stop trying. Unless they hire a whole narrative development team (writers, developers, AV editors, etc) from a known good RPG maker that has complete authority over the main narrative and Blizzard's in- house team just focuses on sidequests and set pieces, Blizzard should stop doing ambitious narratives. Unless they are copy pasting stories like they did with Arthas.