Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Elegiac]

Good news, everyone!

Leaders of the National Rifle Association (NRA) traveled to Moscow using NRA funds, according to a new Senate report, raising the question of whether the organization broke laws governing nonprofit spending. If the association did in fact break those laws, it could lose its tax-exempt status — and according to a former IRS official, without its tax-exempt status the NRA could be forced to shut down.

The report, which was compiled by Democrats on the Senate Finance Committee and released on Friday, investigates the relationship between NRA leadership and Russian nationals with Kremlin ties. Those nationals include Maria Butina, a 30-year-old Russian who was convicted last year of conspiring to act as a foreign agent. As Vox’s Andrew Prokop explained, her alleged goal was to “try to influence the Republican Party to be friendlier to Russia, by way of the NRA.”

Part of that relationship involved a 2015 trip to Russia during which Butina promised to introduce top NRA executives to powerful officials, and during which those executives were told they would be given opportunities to advance personal business interests.

The problem — aside from the fact that the NRA is accused of willingly establishing relationships with Russian nationals with close ties with the Kremlin — is that tax-exempt nonprofits aren’t allowed to use their funds for personal gain, as NPR has reported.

Looks like the gun control fight is about to get a little easier.

[Roxinius]

Good news, everyone!



Looks like the gun control fight is about to get a little easier.

not really actual gun owners know the nra is a joke supporting GOA who actually defends our rights has been a much better option

[Elegiac]

not really actual gun owners know the nra is a joke supporting GOA who actually defends our rights has been a much better option

I mean the GOA hasn't had any major legislative presence since the early Obama years but go off I guess, lol.

One would think 'actual gun owners' would have an easier time finding advocates who aren't funded by eastern european oligarchs.

[Roxinius]

I mean the GOA hasn't had any major legislative presence since the early Obama years but go off I guess, lol.

One would think 'actual gun owners' would have an easier time finding advocates who aren't funded by eastern european oligarchs.

believe what you want but your fight on gun control certainly isnt getting any easier

[Elegiac]

believe what you want but your fight on gun control certainly isnt getting any easier

Considering that there's growing anti-gun sentiment to the point where people are now openly expressing buybacks as a legislative option...

I thinketh the fuck not.

[Mayhem]

This... I don't even....

You'd make it a crime not to report being a victim of an attempted crime? And all for the sake of data collection? Are you shitting me?

Yeah, it's really a moronic idea to make reporting attempted crimes a requirement.

"Ha, I am saved from this criminal, that's good enough, fuck everyone else!"

The part where you imply that there are other, unflawed methods. That's, you know, the whole point of stating that those flaws are inherent, and unavoidable. It's also why I spelled out that all the papers released in the past 20 years or so have done nothing except argue about just how flawed those methodologies are.

Other methods are other methods, that the methods used are inherently flawed does not make every other method also inherently flawed. I don't know why I have to explain this to you.

Because any reasonable, rational person can tell you that that's the only possible method of data collection on this subject.

That is nonsense.

Go ahead, show me a country that makes it a crime not to report each and every defensive use of a firearm, even ones in which the firearm is not discharged (which is most of them). Show me such a law being enforced. Show me the 100% accurate data collection about the subject because of said law.

I'll wait.

It's not so much about reporting the defensive use of a firearm, but the lack of reporting that an attempted crime happened.

The laws on self-defence vary very much by country, so yes it can be a crime to not report a use of a firearm because the usage itself already was a crime.

[Ghostpanther]

https://www.foxnews.com/world/violen...k-mall-finland

A knife-wielding man, also armed with a gun, killed at least one person and injured 9 more Tuesday afternoon during a “violent attack” at a mall in central Finland, police said.

Authorities in Kuopio detained one person, described as a Finnish national, after an apparent knifing attack that took place at the Savon Vocational School, which is located inside the Hermann shopping center.

While police have not confirmed details of the attack, they did say that law enforcement “used a firearm" to stop the violence

So what I find odd about this attack is, he had a firearm, but did not use it as they are calling it a knife attack?

And it was a good guy with a gun who stopped the attacker.

[PhaelixWW]

Yeah, it's really a moronic idea to make reporting attempted crimes a requirement.

"Ha, I am saved from this criminal, that's good enough, fuck everyone else!"

Yes, actually, it is entirely moronic. It's not even a requirement to report being the victim of an actual crime, and you somehow think it's a brilliant idea to make it a crime not to report being a victim of an attempted crime, as well.

I mean, seriously, how much traction do you think you'd have trying to push a law that would make the victim of a rape, or domestic abuse, or a hate crime, into a criminal by not coming forward to report their victimization. Now imagine trying to go one ludicrous step forward into also making those people criminals for not reporting attempted victimizations, as well.

Other methods are other methods, that the methods used are inherently flawed does not make every other method also inherently flawed. I don't know why I have to explain this to you.

Because you somehow keep ignoring the fact that there are no "other methods".

That is nonsense.

Thus proving that you are, indeed, an unreasonable, irrational person. Thank you.

It's not so much about reporting the defensive use of a firearm, but the lack of reporting that an attempted crime happened.

The laws on self-defence vary very much by country, so yes it can be a crime to not report a use of a firearm because the usage itself already was a crime.

You get that most defensive uses of firearms does not involve the actual discharge of a firearm, right? On top of that, it's not universally a crime to discharge a firearm. Also, I'm sure that even in areas where discharging a firearm is itself a crime, those get massively under-reported, so your data collection would be shit, regardless.

You might as well make it a requirement for the offenders to report any crime they commit, also. I mean, data is precious.

[Mayhem]

Yes, actually, it is entirely moronic. It's not even a requirement to report being the victim of an actual crime, and you somehow think it's a brilliant idea to make it a crime not to report being a victim of an attempted crime, as well.

I know, being reasonable isn't your strong point and you obviously get feelings into this discussion but why do you think it can't be treated as an infraction?

Seriously, where's your logical explanation to NOT report a crime/attempted crime?

I mean, seriously, how much traction do you think you'd have trying to push a law that would make the victim of a rape, or domestic abuse, or a hate crime, into a criminal by not coming forward to report their victimization. Now imagine trying to go one ludicrous step forward into also making those people criminals for not reporting attempted victimizations, as well.

Common sense? I mean, you can't know a crime happened if no one reports on it.

Because you somehow keep ignoring the fact that there are no "other methods".

That is not a fact at all.

Thus proving that you are, indeed, an unreasonable, irrational person. Thank you.

Cute coming from you.

You get that most defensive uses of firearms does not involve the actual discharge of a firearm, right? On top of that, it's not universally a crime to discharge a firearm. Also, I'm sure that even in areas where discharging a firearm is itself a crime, those get massively under-reported, so your data collection would be shit, regardless.

Oh boy, this is like talking to a 3-year-old, come on, you have to be smarter than this.

You might as well make it a requirement for the offenders to report any crime they commit, also. I mean, data is precious.

So it's back to "let's throw our hands in the air, nothing can be done about it". The American way of life.

[Ghostpanther]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/nr...-san-francisco

The National Rifle Association declared victory in its legal battle against the San Francisco Board of Supervisors, who declared the group a “national terrorist organization,” after the city’s mayor announced that no municipality can stop businesses from working with them.

Mayor London Breed and Dennis J. Herrera, the city attorney, penned a formal memo to officials on Sept. 23 stating no city "department will take steps to restrict any contractor from doing business with the NRA or to restrict city contracting opportunities for any business that has any relationship with the NRA,”

Good to see some officials with some good sense.

[Elegiac]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/nr...-san-francisco

The National Rifle Association declared victory in its legal battle against the San Francisco Board of Supervisors, who declared the group a “national terrorist organization,” after the city’s mayor announced that no municipality can stop businesses from working with them.

Mayor London Breed and Dennis J. Herrera, the city attorney, penned a formal memo to officials on Sept. 23 stating no city "department will take steps to restrict any contractor from doing business with the NRA or to restrict city contracting opportunities for any business that has any relationship with the NRA,”

Good to see some officials with some good sense.

Ah, nice. At the very least they can get a meaningless win in before they go bankrupt.

[zenkai]

https://www.foxbusiness.com/money/nr...-san-francisco

The National Rifle Association declared victory in its legal battle against the San Francisco Board of Supervisors, who declared the group a “national terrorist organization,” after the city’s mayor announced that no municipality can stop businesses from working with them.

Mayor London Breed and Dennis J. Herrera, the city attorney, penned a formal memo to officials on Sept. 23 stating no city "department will take steps to restrict any contractor from doing business with the NRA or to restrict city contracting opportunities for any business that has any relationship with the NRA,”

Good to see some officials with some good sense.

I swear common sense is out the window, this shouldn't have been a thing to begin with. Fucking idiots.

[petej0]

Seriously, where's your logical explanation to NOT report a crime/attempted crime?

Ever hear of the phrase "Snitches get stitches"? There is a segment of society who feel that keeping their mouth shut keeps them and their family alive. I wish they would come forward to help clean up the streets, but in our legal system you get to face your accuser. Even if the person is convicted, if they are gang related the accuser or their family now has a target on their back.

So it's back to "let's throw our hands in the air, nothing can be done about it". The American way of life.

What crimes would you force get reported? And how do you enforce it?

[Mayhem]

Ever hear of the phrase "Snitches get stitches"? There is a segment of society who feel that keeping their mouth shut keeps them and their family alive. I wish they would come forward to help clean up the streets, but in our legal system you get to face your accuser. Even if the person is convicted, if they are gang related the accuser or their family now has a target on their back.

Well, then something has to be done about that.

What crimes would you force get reported? And how do you enforce it?

You don't need to force people at all. No one forces people to drive within the speed limit. It would be as with about everything else that gets you an infraction self-enforced.

[petej0]

You don't need to force people at all. No one forces people to drive within the speed limit. It would be as with about everything else that gets you an infraction self-enforced.

The speed limit is not self enforced. It is enforced by a police presence. If police did not hide and enforce the speed limit everyone would go as fast as they want.

[Mayhem]

The speed limit is not self enforced. It is enforced by a police presence. If police did not hide and enforce the speed limit everyone would go as fast as they want.

Right, the police force me to drive within the speed limit by being present at all times when I am driving, oh wait.

So it's a risk of getting caught. Well there you have it, the same principle would work with reporting crimes/attempted crimes. If the police find out you didn't report anything, infraction granted. And since it would be ridiculous to ask of everyone to know every law, make it about serious crimes only, theft, violent crimes, you get the idea.

A somewhat similar law would be denial of assistance we have over here. You can get fined for a hefty sum of money if you don't provide assistance to someone who is in danger/injured. Of course, no one expects of you to place yourself in danger to do so, just so we're clear.

[Ghostpanther]

It is appearing the assault on semi -auto rifles, is a Democrat party agenda. Even Joe Biden now is trying to equate the AR-15 with fully automatic machine guns. Calling for the same type of registry as required for them.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/dana-l...-beto-gun-grab

Nationally syndicated radio host and former spokeswoman of the National Rifle Association (NRA) Dana Loesch said on Thursday that former Vice President Joe Biden’s proposed crackdown on assault-style weapons is the same as 2020 Democratic presidential hopeful Beto O’Rourke.

“All their plans are essentially identical to Beto O-Rourke’s. This is the Democrat Party now,” Loesch told “Fox & Friends," disputing O'Rourke's claims that a majority of Americans agree with his position on the issue.

As part of his plan to curb gun violence in America, Biden is proposing that owners of assault-style weapons either sell their firearms through a voluntary buyback program or register their weapons with the government.

I suggest those interested in this to watch the video with the article.

[Stormdash]

Did they not watch Beta's campaign faceplant on this very issue just days ago?

The Democrats, liberals, progressives, and authoritarian statists of every stripe have two flavors to choose from when it comes to dreams of disarming the American people - they can fail at disarming us by politics, or they can fail at disarming us by force.

[the game]

It is appearing the assault on semi -auto rifles, is a Democrat party agenda. Even Joe Biden now is trying to equate the AR-15 with fully automatic machine guns. Calling for the same type of registry as required for them.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/dana-l...-beto-gun-grab

Nationally syndicated radio host and former spokeswoman of the National Rifle Association (NRA) Dana Loesch said on Thursday that former Vice President Joe Biden’s proposed crackdown on assault-style weapons is the same as 2020 Democratic presidential hopeful Beto O’Rourke.

“All their plans are essentially identical to Beto O-Rourke’s. This is the Democrat Party now,” Loesch told “Fox & Friends," disputing O'Rourke's claims that a majority of Americans agree with his position on the issue.

As part of his plan to curb gun violence in America, Biden is proposing that owners of assault-style weapons either sell their firearms through a voluntary buyback program or register their weapons with the government.

I suggest those interested in this to watch the video with the article.

This is why the democrats are trying to impeach trump. They know their candidates are batshit crazy and guaranteeing trump gets elected for a second term.

[Ghostpanther]

Did they not watch Beta's campaign faceplant on this very issue just days ago?

The Democrats, liberals, progressives, and authoritarian statists of every stripe have two flavors to choose from when it comes to dreams of disarming the American people - they can fail at disarming us by politics, or they can fail at disarming us by force.

They did. But this is the first time Biden has come out and supported such type of action publicly during this campaign. But he is done now I think. So I am not too concerned about him, but this also shows, the Democrat party as a whole, appear to be on the same ban wagon.

- - - Updated - - -

This is why the democrats are trying to impeach trump. They know their candidates are batshit crazy and guaranteeing trump gets elected for a second term.

Yes, I agree. And they will lose the impeachment in the Senate.