How much is too much? (Corpse Camping)

[Ragedaug]

If you quit playing because you are getting ganked when you log in, you should be on a pve server, and it's that simple.

Thanks, that's the first time I've ever heard that and could never had figured it out on my own. No sarcasm there at all. It was pure luck that I did just that and changed to a PVE server without your advice.

Fun part was after I left (and many others) that's when the "you should be on a PVE server" crowd started crying that world PVP was dead, because they had already chased us all away, it was my turn to laugh. They were salty tears, but still enjoyable since they were the ones poking their own eyes.

No rules open world PVP is unsustainable because no one wants to spend their hobbie/game time corpse running. It was already dying towards the end of Vanilla and then again towards the middle of BC, and pretty much dead for the rest of retail afterwards.


By the end of Vanilla, lowby player touches down at the flight path in Ironforge: "Hey Guys!! Horde is attacking Southshore!!". General response, "Horde is always attacking Southshore". No one comes to help, leveling in that zone becomes next to impossible.


By the midpoint in BC:
Concerned leveler: "Alliance is ganking in HP!!"
General max player response - "so?"

Concerned leveler: "We are trying to take Halaa back!!"
General max player response - "meh"


We are already seeing it in Classic and there are no BGs yet. "Alliance is camping the Yeti cave". No one cares. If they do actually take the time to clear the Alliance out, the Alliance just run away, so you've wasted more time trying to "get them back", and as soon as you leave, they just return anyway. So they are laughing at the folks they are ganking and the "white knights"...which is why very few will bother with White Knighting.

[Degenerator]

Thanks, that's the first time I've ever heard that and could never had figured it out on my own. No sarcasm there at all. It was pure luck that I did just that and changed to a PVE server without your advice.

Fun part was after I left (and many others) that's when the "you should be on a PVE server" crowd started crying that world PVP was dead, because they had already chased us all away, it was my turn to laugh. They were salty tears, but still enjoyable since they were the ones poking their own eyes.

No rules open world PVP is unsustainable because no one wants to spend their hobbie/game time corpse running. It was already dying towards the end of Vanilla and then again towards the middle of BC, and pretty much dead for the rest of retail afterwards.


By the end of Vanilla, lowby player touches down at the flight path in Ironforge: "Hey Guys!! Horde is attacking Southshore!!". General response, "Horde is always attacking Southshore". No one comes to help, leveling in that zone becomes next to impossible.


By the midpoint in BC:
Concerned leveler: "Alliance is ganking in HP!!"
General max player response - "so?"

Concerned leveler: "We are trying to take Halaa back!!"
General max player response - "meh"


We are already seeing it in Classic and there are no BGs yet. "Alliance is camping the Yeti cave". No one cares. If they do actually take the time to clear the Alliance out, the Alliance just run away, so you've wasted more time trying to "get them back", and as soon as you leave, they just return anyway. So they are laughing at the folks they are ganking and the "white knights"...which is why very few will bother with White Knighting.

If what you are saying is true..then why, given this is a chance to revisit "Vanilla" WoW, would anyone roll on a PvP server? Surely, if what you propose is true, PvE realms would be full and PvP realms would be empty bar the one or two masochists that seem to enjoy that playstyle.

And please don't suggest that a large portion of the Classic player base is so new they would not know what a PvP realm is...

[Adamas102]

World of Warcraft was not created in a vacuum, it was a re-imagining of the RTS series, where the different races were in conflict, specifically allowing players to fight other players. In turning that RTS to an MMORPG, having faction vs faction conflict exist was tantamount to creating an Azeroth that feels like it was an acurate representation of the Warcraft universe, that means players of the Horde and Alliance faction could fight each other. The developers went even further, as the Horde and Alliance are not friendly in the series, they tried to create situations where the factions compete over the same resource, specifically so there would be strife. In that sense, the pvp system is designed to make the world feel dangerous, as you could be killed or fighting at any time, which creates adversity for players. From there the developers expected the players to figure it out on their own, and by overcoming that adversity drawing them deeper into the game.

With that being said, MMORPGs are built to feel like you are playing in a "real" world, as such players are rarely equals to the others they are playing with or against, this asymmetry is at the core of the MMORPG experience and World of Warcraft was specifically designed to be that way. The idea that there is only one true way to participate in pvp is not something the game was designed around, since the developers were not looking to create situations that were fair for both sides (they wanted it to be unfair at times). This is how the game is meant to be played when you're playing on a pvp realm.

Here I've laid it out for you, despite having done so previously, I've identified what the system is meant to do, how it does it, and how that applies to the vision of the game, you have only responded with ideas that have no bearing on that and telling me that the system is bad because of some anecdotes on the internet.

First off, WoW's story pretty much came on the heels of WC3 which had a main campaign end with faction unity against a common foe. So no, the faction conflict isn't necessary or tantamount to the Warcraft world. As others have mentioned, PVE realms were at one point simply called Normal realms because that was the default setting that the developers envisioned. The red team/blue team idea is outdated based on both what came before WoW and how its story has progressed over the years. It's unfortunate that after 15 years the game is still stuck with this immovable barrier to having an actually immersive world.

Secondly, get this constant talk about fairness and equality the fuck out of here. I've already stated multiple times that it isn't a question of always having balance in the conflict. The only stipulation for ANY game is that everyone is a willing participant. And as we've already covered, not everyone on a PVP realm is a willing participant. It SHOULD be less of an issue with Classic because 99% of the players knew exactly what they were getting into, but back in the day it wasn't as clear. The monetary roadblock that Blizzard put in place didn't help.

I've explained why the system is bad on a fundamental level, not an anecdotal level. Please learn the difference. My personal experience is simply that after having spent over a decade on a PVP server, the vast majority of players do not play the game the way you say it was intended to be played. Most players avoid WPVP. Why? Because going out of your way to do something that has zero benefit for your character is pretty much antithetical to the entire rest of the game.

1. WPVP happens rarely, so there is no real sense of danger to it. It just happens sometimes and is annoying and you move on
2. One of the reasons it happens rarely is because it isn't a compelling system that entices people to participate
3. The only "benefit" (which speaks to the character of the people who enjoy the ganking/camping aspect) is simply having inconvenienced another player

Your argument is basically that the system is meant to make the world more "real" or immersive. I've agreed that that might have been the intent, but that doesn't mean it was successful. It was very clearly a tacked on system that had little thought put into it. Participation isn't really encouraged as there is no benefit to doing so. In fact, it was often discouraged with the addition of things like dishonorable kills, honorless targets, PVP status toggle in friendly zones, and possible action against people who use the system as a means of harassment.

I WISH the game could do something interesting with WPVP and faction conflict, but the fact is that the current state (both in Classic and in retail) is tangential to the core of the game; level up and get on the never ending gear treadmill.

[Nite92]

1.)

If people wanted a fair fight, they can do that anyway....

No because people - who would be a fair fight - can opt out. So it often leads to spam clicking on resources with a respawn. No way to attack a guy who gets to an herb 1 sec before you and so on. A lot of fair fights, which cannot be fought like on PvP servers.

2.)

....The only benefit of being on a PVP server is the ability to kill players with or without a fair fight whenever you want.

FTFY. You choose if you attack a grey. Learn to comprehend what you read FFS, it literally says it in the part you quoted. Again for you, maybe you have to read it very slowly to understand the meaning of it: YOU CHOOSE WHICH BATTLES YOU START, so it is up to you.

[Adamas102]

You are seriously so blinded by your bias and own opinion that you genuinely believe someone sat at their computer and got ganked and camped for over 24 hours? People like you are the absolute worst kind of person. This is beyond dense.

Sorry kid, but the only dense one here is you. Prevent and hinder are essentially synonyms, so when you say "no, you're not prevented from doing this, you're being hindered from doing it" you sound like a fucking idiot. "Playing the game" entails logging on and doing the activity that I want to do on the character that I want to do it on. So no, "just log on to a different character" is not a valid response. If your solution to being unable to do activity A because someone else made you an unwilling participant in activity B is to simply abandon what you wanted to do, then that's a sign of a shit game system.

[Shaetha]

1.)
No because people - who would be a fair fight - can opt out. So it often leads to spam clicking on resources with a respawn. No way to attack a guy who gets to an herb 1 sec before you and so on. A lot of fair fights, which cannot be fought like on PvP servers.

2.)
FTFY. You choose if you attack a grey. Learn to comprehend what you read FFS, it literally says it in the part you quoted. Again for you, maybe you have to read it very slowly to understand the meaning of it: YOU CHOOSE WHICH BATTLES YOU START, so it is up to you.

Nope, you can fight a fair fight on a normal server. The only additional thing you get on PVP servers is unfair fights.

[Dawon]

I usually kill people once and move on, simply as I am not an asshole! Camping someone that just spawns, isnt ready/buffed and usually outnumbered isn't my way of "pvping", it's simply bullying.

Kill once, you won, move on! THAT is pvp!

[Frozenbro]

On classic i only kill the alliance players that i dont see grey myself, only to kill them over and over again if they attack me, otherwise he and me can move on.
On retail if an alliance is trying to farm herbs in the same spot as me, i camp the shit out of him till he leaves with cancer.

[Donald Hellscream]

No, I can't be bothered waiting around for the person to respawn, so I just move on after the kill.

I fail to see the appeal of standing around oneshotting someone repeatedly the moment they spawn.

I don't think you can be banned for griefing unless cause some sort of disruption, like by repeatedly killing quest givers, thus preventing the opposite faction from progressing alltogether, but the times I've heard of Blizzard intervening would just be Blizzard forcibly porting the griefer away.

[krl]

1) I engage for shared resources and will engage again if they do not leave the area. Don't they dare mine, herb or tag a rare mob, or be in the area if I intend to tag.

2) No.

3) No. However, you can get banned for exploiting the PVP guards or the limitations of the game engine. Like griefing from specific spots in Booty Bay. That's fucking lame and will get you reported by members of both factions.

[Sezh]

I don't believe most people do enjoy the suffering of others. But to suggest being ganked and/or corpse camped in a computer game is suffering is ..... at best a stretch. Annoying sure, suffering no.

Personally, if it's red its dead. PvP server is just that. Don't like it, role PvE.

An even match of skill I can understand, but that rarely if ever happens. If you're camping the FP in Light's Hope for 3 hours straight a friday night killing levelers when there is no honor system in place, what possible motive could you have except pure sadism? Sadism in a video game, sure. So who really cares. But what else is the reason to do it?

[ellieg]

Sorry kid, but the only dense one here is you. Prevent and hinder are essentially synonyms, so when you say "no, you're not prevented from doing this, you're being hindered from doing it" you sound like a fucking idiot. "Playing the game" entails logging on and doing the activity that I want to do on the character that I want to do it on. So no, "just log on to a different character" is not a valid response. If your solution to being unable to do activity A because someone else made you an unwilling participant in activity B is to simply abandon what you wanted to do, then that's a sign of a shit game system.

Logging into a pvp server makes you a willing participant tho...lol.

[sibut]

I don't play on PvP servers (did in vanilla and that was enough) anymore. When I did I didn't gank (I did fight back if attacked and had the occasional surprising victory) or camp anyone, I didn't have a problem with someone driveby ganking me. What pissed me off was highlevel characters who corpse camped me. I mean, I'd just switch toons or log for awhile and roll my eyes, but I guess some people just get their jollies by trying to ruin other peoples' fun. Just don't try to make it out to be skill rather than compensation for what you lack below the waistline when you sit there for an hour corpsecamping someone 30 levels lower than you.

[Greengrim]

1) Not always, but when I do, I try to do it until they spirit ress.

2) Of course I don't blacklist people who do the same thing as I.

3) No.

[Zenfoldor]

When you are a rogue, you can wait for those higher level players to pull mobs and burn ccs, use improved sprint, precast wotf kneejerk fear counter, and crippling posion, and try to spell batch their cc. Then you can easily take a higher level character. Imagine being level 40 and being ran off and/or corpse camped at your quest mobs by a level 32 rogue that you can't kill because s/he is patient and clever. Also, always run thistle tea for pvp. It really, really helps.

edited: I assume the OP is a rogue based on how much fun he's having in world pvp while leveling, lol. I'm also 37 atm, almost 38.

[buddhapunch09]

When you are a rogue, you can wait for those higher level players to pull mobs and burn ccs, use improved sprint, precast wotf kneejerk fear counter, and crippling posion, and try to spell batch their cc. Then you can easily take a higher level character. Imagine being level 40 and being ran off and/or corpse camped at your quest mobs by a level 32 rogue that you can't kill because s/he is patient and clever. Also, always run thistle tea for pvp. It really, really helps.

edited: I assume the OP is a rogue based on how much fun he's having in world pvp while leveling, lol. I'm also 37 atm, almost 38.

Yes!!! You see this is what Im talking about! Ive had this happen to me before, it was a druid though and he was in stealth watching/waiting for me after I ganked him and jumped me when I was low life dealing with mobs. I dont blame him at all... I thought it was cool to have balls to do that when hes lower level than. I would have done the same if it were me. No hard feeling towards him but yes I want to see his character die and suffer lol... His name is Qugamire a 32 druid, probably late 30s now. I try to look for him if I think hes near by, ive seen him on 3 separate occasions.

And no I play a hunter. Id be lying if I didnt say I want to play a rogue too.

[Twoddle]

Roll PvE you wusses. I gank and corpse camp and I get ganked and corpse camped, that's what it's all about.

The line is crossed a little bit when you get people on your own faction telling the enemy where you are over voice chat and such.

[Kallor]

I think it brings exitement to the game. If someone does it to me, I always try to rally the people in the zone to my defense, and often people show up swiftly and help give me the revenge I want.

(Note, only if the ones ganking me are much higher lvl than me. If levels are equal, I try to fight back by myself of course).

[arkanon]

Sorry kid, but the only dense one here is you. Prevent and hinder are essentially synonyms, so when you say "no, you're not prevented from doing this, you're being hindered from doing it" you sound like a fucking idiot. "Playing the game" entails logging on and doing the activity that I want to do on the character that I want to do it on. So no, "just log on to a different character" is not a valid response. If your solution to being unable to do activity A because someone else made you an unwilling participant in activity B is to simply abandon what you wanted to do, then that's a sign of a shit game system.

You forget one REALLY important fact - by rolling on a pvp realm you become a WILLING participant. You can also leave the area, log on to a different character, swap realms......you are absolutely wrong here.

[Monster Hunter]

Hey guys couple questions here I would like your opinions on.

1) Do you corpse camp after you kill someone? If so how many times do you do it for? Do you have a record? Please share your story!

2) Knowing that your fellow faction member corpse camps people and griefs the other faction hard, do you blacklist them? Do you frown upon corpse campers even if they are on your side?

3) Can I get in trouble or get banned for griefing the enemy faction too hard and corpse camping them?



My experience so far:
I've never played on a PvP server so I decided to roll on one with Classic and I am absolutely LOVING IT!
I wish I had rolled on one earlier in my WoW life. Im only lvl 37 but man is it a blast to just kill people on this game hahah. I've already made a few enemies on my server that I see every so often and a fight will ALWAYS break out. To be honest most of the time I corpse camp them because I hate them and want to see their character suffer.

Yes sometimes they get the best of me... I have been ganked many times but to be honest I don't really get angry, even if they are level 60 killing me in a town or something I will either run away or hit up /3 Local Defense. P.S. It feels AMAZING when you bring down a higher lvl and trash talk them in emotes.

Im a very nice person in real life but I do feel like im a really toxic person on this game and a little nervous if I could get banned for it.... Even though I NEVER ninja things.
I will always help out my faction and other players. Im great at making friends but with Classic I know your reputation matters. I dont want to be blacklisted...
Could corpse camping people make it hard for me to get into groups?

I once camped a guy for 16hrs in one sitting during vanilla over summer holidays. Many more hours if you count the 3 months I spent tracking him down with /who on an alt, finding him and killing him.

He either rerolled or quit in the end can't tell which but he stopped logging in that char.

I know he did something to really really piss me off but I can't even rember what it was.