I understand WHY people love TBC, but....

[Relapses]

This definitely needed its own thread and in no way shape or form differs from the dozens of anti-TBC threads that already exist. Thanks for your unique, groundbreaking revelations.

[Monoxide]

Strongly disagree about the world PvP. It was nothing at all.

The only place that had a pinch of PvP was Isle. Only because you couldn't fly.

Well we had completely different experiences then. I played a Shadow Priest in TBC on the server Lightning's Blade. World PvP was huge, especially at places like Elemental Plateau and the daily quests hubs like Ogri'la and Skettis.

[Aeula]

PvP is a minigame anyway. I’d be happy for it to be rendered irrelevant.

TBC Dungeons, raids and dailies are good. That’s what matters to me.

All that said, wpvp was happening in Outland as late as Cata. And that was when I was on a low pop PvP server.

[dewd]

nobody cares about pvp

[akaTheDude]

TBC was the best wow will ever be imo, wow at it's prime. That and Wrath.

Also i remember pvp all over the place in TBC even with flying mounts.

100% agree with you. wpvp , pvp, and raiding. Heck raids were coming out faster than they could be cleared!

[schwank05]

TBC is a VERY good PVE game and sucks at everything else. If raiding was the primary thing you did in WoW you usually loved it. Everything I say past here doesn't matter to you, because TBC might be the best raid/pve game ever made for a "raiding is all that matters" player. If PVE wasn't your primary focus, you can easily view it as highly overrated and point out that it started many of the systems and things that would eventually destroy WoW as we knew it.

Flying destroyed world pvp. Instantly. Nothing more to say about that.

Arena gear/arena led to the changes that destroyed Alterac Valley. ALL players gravitated towards the honor per minute idea to get the resilience gear they needed to start arena, instead of just having fun. Take the mentally ill repeat rank 14 grinders and give that mindset to ALL the players and that is what BG's became. Keep in mind that AV was cleverly designed to get pve players into pvp and that is ceased to exist as intended in TBC and the playerbase became very split with pvp and pve players. This got worse every expansion and now players who used to all be one big, awesome community are split into little groups.

Professions mean very little in pvp because world pvp is dead. Why bother. Rocketboots could be used if I remember right in arena, but could backfire. Hand enchants I think could be used to, but it really didn't matter. I hated arena and tried to block out every time I would get myself or someone else the 1850 weapon. The rest was a waste of time. I also usually played double dps because running around a pole for a long time was awful.

Arena becomes the barometer for everything, due to a dumb rating that autistic kids and streamers who helped ruin WoW, can brag about as they run around a pole with a healer in most comps (other than spriest, rogue, mage). Very few comps are viable and the pvp is awful and the makers of the original WoW said arena was a mistake.
engadget.com/2009/11/13/blizzard-arenas-were-a-mistake/[/url]

The better arena got, the more classes all became the same, which breaks and ruins larger forms of pvp and the "fun factor" and uniqueness of classes. The original designers knew this would happen. Fast forward and we now have unkillable healers when crosshealing happens in a BG or a 1 v 1 happens due to every class having to all have the same CC and chains. PvP outside of 3 v 3 is now GARBAGE. Healers HAVE to be OP in all other scenarios, just so a failed esport can continue.

Segregation of the playerbase happens for the first time with Arena and Heroics. This was not that big a problem in TBC because you only had heroic dungeons and one difficulty of raids. Now we have LFR, normal, heroic, mythic, mythic plus. It's just stupid.

Dailies start as a big thing in TBC. This is what happens when you break world pvp and segregate the playerbase to cater to the "eltiist jerks" (who now run WoW btw). You need dumbed down repeatable, zombie like content for the "casuals" or really nice people who weren't that great mechanically, who actually have very little to do in modern WoW. They eventually get bored/quit and all you are left with in the modern game is LFR/daily zombies who listen to streamers they are so bored and the 1 percent that no one could stand to be around in vanilla.

In vanilla these mechanically deficient players could be "carried" but no one said carried because people weren't all aholes and they could contribute big time to a guild through professions, farming, running 5 mans and gearing up offtanks and dps. They could also pvp with you, world pvp, have consumables that gave them an edge etc. Modern WoW literally separates you from people you grew up playing this game with and rewards you for abandoning them with progression. Vanilla never did that.

People claim vanilla was not casual friendly. That's complete BS. It had the most to do for casual players of any expansion. Everything took time, but you always had something to do.

TLDR. TBC introduced too many catch up systems, flying killed world pvp, arena killed classes being unique and broke all other forums of pvp except 3 v 3, segregation of pve content got out of control eventually and further led to class homogenization, it was the first implemenation of a group finder (no one used it), dailies replaced organic pvp and farming content, old world is now useless.

I totally disagree on the world PVP thing if you mean Ganking, then sure flying did significantly reduce your chances of being ganked by a higher level player which was a good thing. Flying is one of my favorite things about BC it was fun and I loved everything about it. I also loved Arena I never got high in it just 1100 rating to get the weapon and that was about it. But BG's were a blast I to this day have the most fun in the BC battleground. But I will admit im a total BC fan boy it was and always will be my favorite xpac.

[Greyvax]

The only thing that ruined world pvp are the players themselves. Besides, it's not "world pvp" its called ganking. If there was any incentive to do wpvp, there would be willing participants, but there isn't.

The real pvp happens in controlled battle zones (like halaa in nagrand)

[Mrbleedinggums]

Report OP for making multiple accounts just to flood his bullshit "Classic is best" threads he likes to start. Mods really need to crack down on people who make multiple accounts like this.

[KevyB]

Strongly disagree about the world PvP. It was nothing at all.

The only place that had a pinch of PvP was Isle. Only because you couldn't fly.

Yeah doubt you played TBC at all, i personally lead countless charges consisting of 20+ people in both nagrand and hellfire cap zones.

Those were great times, and nothing came close to such open world pvp battles since.

[Echocho]

Just let us enjoy the old versions of the game and you can stick with your retail version mkay?

[shise]

Sorry m8, but it was perfect.

PvE offered game for all levels of players, effort wise, as all raid tiers were open and useful til SWP came out.. and not many were able to raid SWP.. It was mostly the top 3 to top 5 guild that we were raiding there :P

PvP was fun. Resilience gained a lot of hate, but it was nice that you could build a pvp set.. now a days, you can´t unless you are purely doing pvp, which let+s be honest, a minority of people do.

[Koward]

While I strongly believe Vanilla is superior to TBC, I am not sure we have a choice in that matter. Just enjoy it while it lasts, and don't try too much to convince others. Some people would just prefer less world PvP.

[avitush]

Flying did not destroy world pvp. If you actually played tbc and went out of shattrath you'd know there were pretty good battles in nagrand, hellfire and terokkar at the objectives and at the daily hubs.

This.

I see the "flying killed world PvP" line get thrown around in threads like this, and all I can figure is that the people who keep screaming it either played on incredibly low-population servers or never left major cities during BC and Wrath.

I constantly saw people ganking back and forth, fighting over those tower objectives in various Outland zones, guilds going at it outside raid/dungeon entrances, Horde/Alliance players kiting elites into each other's cities in HFP, and so on. When I was out murdering demons for Aldor rep and bumped into a Hordie doing the same thing, it was on just as much as it would've been during Classic WoW. I certainly didn't see any less world PvP in BC than I did in Classic.

[Heladys]

PVE was and still is the only thing that matters.

[Black Goat]

I love how much people hate the fact that a TBC relaunch is 200% more likely than this Classic+ people have made up in their heads.

#theysaidthesamethingsaboutClassic #lookatusnow #theylldothesameforWrath

[Zensunni]

Almost everything the OP says is completely wrong. Clearly this person is just butthurt that anyone would criticize Classic wow (news flash, Classic wow is deeply flawed and actual participation is plummeting).

[EmrysForrest]

Strongly disagree about the world PvP. It was nothing at all.

The only place that had a pinch of PvP was Isle. Only because you couldn't fly.

You are so wrong its embarrassing. Perhaps you were on a PvP dead realm, but there was massive amounts of world PvP everywhere, including pvp raids in Halaa, Terrokar and Hellfire on the daily. Fighting on the floating islands and killing people was the most satisfying ever, because they had to battle rezone. Not to mention, this expansion was THEE Arenas expansion, and PvP'ers finally got a true advantage over PvE'ers in the open world.

[Alexplode]

TBC is a VERY good PVE game and sucks at everything else. If raiding was the primary thing you did in WoW you usually loved it. Everything I say past here doesn't matter to you, because TBC might be the best raid/pve game ever made for a "raiding is all that matters" player. If PVE wasn't your primary focus, you can easily view it as highly overrated and point out that it started many of the systems and things that would eventually destroy WoW as we knew it.

some raids where fun like zul'aman, karazan, BT. but not the best

Flying destroyed world pvp. Instantly. Nothing more to say about that.

im starting to think you did not play TBC. you can easily fly to halaa, the 3 towers in HFP, Auchidon, and have lots of fun with word pvp. remember it was only on outland that you could actually fly.Back in Azeroth you still had Tarrenmill , Xroads, Gadjetzan, the tower in Westfall which fights erputed for 1-2 hours. and many more raid pvp in cities.

we can also had the ablity to show off our 1850 rating weapons and 2000 helms back then. it was hella fun.

Arena gear/arena led to the changes that destroyed Alterac Valley.

what? no. not at all...

Ill stop quoting because everything else is your own personal opinion. it is sad that you did not had lots of fun with pvp overall. just dont try for other to hop on your opinion.

as far as i can tell Arena is one of the major aspects of the game that is being streamed non stop since the beginning of it.

[Will]

Oh dear, oh dear, what the fuck is up with this latest spate of vehemently anti-TBC threads we keep seeing? I smell fear. Are people really so terrified about TBC, or are people really sad enough to passionately hate a video game that others enjoy? Whatever, bro. If you don't like TBC, just play Classic and leave it be.

Flying destroyed world pvp. Instantly. Nothing more to say about that.

No. This is a lazy-man's rumour that ignorant people spread around. Flying did not destroy world pvp. It facilitated it by allowing rapid-fire response to local and world defense call-outs. It facilitated it by allowing people to bump into other people purposefully more quickly. The only people who don't benefit are gankers who are dismayed that people who do not wish to fight fly up into the air.

If you don't like flying in PvP, I suggest going to the official forums and petitioning Blizzard to include the BfA Net-o-Matic if they ever do TBC servers. It would allow you to dismount flying players at a considerable range.

Arena gear/arena led to the changes that destroyed Alterac Valley.

No, this was ironically patch 1.12 that did this. By 1.12 in actual Vanilla, players were rushing the enemy base in favour of prolonged battles. The player-base evolved over time and started to favour the more direct conclusions to battlegrounds.

Professions mean very little in pvp because world pvp is dead.

Again ironic considering professions in TBC were at one of the highest points in the game's history. Stormherald? Yep, you have to be a blacksmith to use the best PvP 2h mace in TBC. This is just one example off the top of my head.

You slag off engineering too, but engineering still had useful gadgets. I will go out and openly admit engineering in Vanilla is TOO strong in PvP, which makes it almost mandatory -- that's NOT good game design.

Arena becomes the barometer for everything, due to a dumb rating that autistic kids and streamers who helped ruin WoW.

Firstly, this was never the case, and secondly, if you don't know what Autism is, using it as a general insult just makes you look clueless. I played the whole of TBC and Arena was never used as a barometer for general skill and progression.

Segregation of the playerbase happens for the first time with Arena and Heroics.

I actually think having two separate progression paths is a good thing as it gives the game more replay value and ensures players have goals for longer, but eh.

Dailies start as a big thing in TBC. This is what happens when you break world pvp and segregate the playerbase to cater to the "eltiist jerks" (who now run WoW btw). You need dumbed down repeatable, zombie like content for the "casuals".

Are you having a go at dailies in particular here, or just slagging off elitists and casual player types? It's also a stupid stretch to suggest either player type 'runs the game these days' when the game caters to both.

People claim vanilla was not casual friendly. That's complete BS. It had the most to do for casual players of any expansion. Everything took time, but you always had something to do.

I agree, but TBC was still far more casual friendly than vanilla. Catch up gear is a big reason why. Heroics for badges? Viable alternate to raiding or arena to get decent gear. That's by definition casual friendly.

TBC introduced too many catch up systems.

We had badges of justice quite late in the expansion, and then we had Quel'Danas gear. Could you care to specify which count as too many?

flying killed world pvp.

Again, this bullshit myth really needs to die in a fire. It's so lazy to casually flick the wrist and blame all world PvP woes on flying. I had plenty of World PvP fun in TBC.

arena killed classes being unique.

No, class homogenisation hadn't begun until later expansions. TBC classes were basically polished versions of Vanilla ones. Next myth, please...

dailies replaced organic pvp and farming content, old world is now useless.

Dailies actually encouraged people to go out into the world, and daily hubs were notorious hotspots for the very world PvP you just claimed was dead. Ironic...

- - - Updated - - -

I wonder how long it us until another dude with less than 50 posts appears out of nowhere and makes a thread denouncing TBC and ranting about how terrible it is. I'm beginning to wonder if it's the same guy.

[EternalBany]

Flying did not destroy world pvp. If you actually played tbc and went out of shattrath you'd know there were pretty good battles in nagrand, hellfire and terokkar at the objectives and at the daily hubs.

How exactly was mindleslly farming mobs better than dailies? Which ilone is more zombir like?

And by no means did you always have something to do in vanilla, not anymore than tbc anyway. Unless you were a high rank tryhard. But then you had the conqueror/justicar titles which also took a really good time of mindleslly spamming bgs

You know nothing of TBC
Yes it did destroy you are wrong.
And the proof is the AMAZING times we had when isle of quel`danas patch was released, people were creating gank guilds and putting out hit squads on x players.