Crusader Kings 3

[Puupi]

I just bought imperator and surviving mars as they were on a big sale this weekend. :S

Briefly touched imperator, but spent a few hours on surviving mars, it seems fun.

[Mehrunes]

Really happy with them rolling with Holy Fury's religion system as a core component of the religion mechanisms in CK3. Dynamic heresies and the ability to reform even organized religions are one of the main things I wanted CK3 to have. I hope the dynamic aspect applies to religions in general. What I'm wishing for here is a system of synods and ecumenical councils where your religion will react to various events. For example a strong heresy, successful holy wars from a different religion and whatnot.

And if your position among the rulers of your religion is strong, you'll be able to influence the outcome through politics, trying to shape the religion the way that's preferable for you so that you don't have to form your own heresy (which, again, is nice but not something I'd like to do each time) and have all your neighbors on your ass with religious wars. That way each religion will evolve organically in random ways defined by what is happening in your current play-through.

Another nice addition in regards to religion would be the ability to mend schisms between various branches of your whole religious groups. Especially if you could achieve it through a handful of different ways. Or prevent it in case of East-West schism of Christianity in earlier starting dates (which also means no Catholicism and Orthodoxy from the get go in those starting dates). In this particular case I'm thinking something along the lines of a big event chain like that for Charlemagne and his brother.

And looping back to heresies in general, it'd be nice if they could become an established branch of the religion if they spread wide enough. But not in the current way where it replaces the parent religion, with the parent religion then becoming the heresy, but something like the aforementioned Catholicism/Orthodoxy split.

Tbh I hope CK3 gets a late rome start date, or an expansion into china in a DLC or something.

Late Rome around Barbarian invasions and the fall of Rome would be neat. They already strayed away from just feudalism in CK2's expansions and are going to continue in that vein in CK3 (albeit without merchant republics and nomads, at least at the start). So with CK3 being built with multiple government forms in mind from the ground up, that opens a whole plethora of opportunities. In CK2 the government types were a bit too hardcoded and rigid.

The same general problem about a certain thing being too hardcoded applies to agnatic inheritance. The AI in CK2 can't handle cognatic and enatic inheritance for shit and repeatedly makes idiotic marriage choices with it.

[Easo]

I think that the biggest question is - Have they learned from the fail of Imperator launch? Barebones game without features? HoI 4 was similar, Stellaris kinda too. And the rage about Imperator showed that people finally have enough, the game was simply not played, refunded and burried with Mixed reviews at best. Yes, I know Paradox WILL fix their games in the long run, after countless DLC's and patches, its something most other companies does not do.
But the fixes will cost hundred-two hundred dollars/euro's and will take couple of years. They are not small indie company, haven't been for a long time. There should be a line where enough is enough and new games by them should be feature complete...
So... Will all the good stuff from CK2 be in the base game? Or not...

[sarahtasher]

About DLCs, I'm very mixed.

One, Paradox offers usually pretty real content. (I'm persuaded that the content is sometimes disguised nerfs, but hey, you play Paradox games outside major, you are a bit of masochist at heart)

Two this content is very frequent and make it impossible (a bless in disguise) to play all their games at the same time. I stuck to HOIV EUIV Stellaris for my part.

Three, some DLCs kinda cancels DLC. I loved for a while the Dominion DLCs. Now, with the AI mass producing fighters and the Allied AI clueless about fighters, they are much less fun to play.

Four, some systems bolted in are clumsy and not very well implemented across the board. Institutions come to the mind. Is there something that turn people more than have a ADM+ Gold sink every 50 years ?

[Mehrunes]

I think that the biggest question is - Have they learned from the fail of Imperator launch? Barebones game without features? HoI 4 was similar, Stellaris kinda too. And the rage about Imperator showed that people finally have enough, the game was simply not played, refunded and burried with Mixed reviews at best. Yes, I know Paradox WILL fix their games in the long run, after countless DLC's and patches, its something most other companies does not do.
But the fixes will cost hundred-two hundred dollars/euro's and will take couple of years. They are not small indie company, haven't been for a long time. There should be a line where enough is enough and new games by them should be feature complete...
So... Will all the good stuff from CK2 be in the base game? Or not...

To be fair, CK2 is the first game of theirs since they changed their classic expansion model to a DLC model that is getting an expansion. So trying to judge how CK3 will look like based on games like HoI 4, Imperator Rome and Stellaris is a bit misguided. Especially since Stellaris and Imperator are new IPs and Stellaris was also a different kind of a grand strategy game than their usual bit. Besides if you look at CK2 at launch, it was also barebones compared to we got later on (or even the aforementioned Stellaris), while at the time of its release it was already a pretty good game compared to its predecessor. I'd say the case of HoI 4 is also largely tied to them trying to make the game more appealing to newer users because HoI 1-3 and Victoria were much more convoluted compared to their other titles.

And from what we know already, it seems it won't suffer from Sims syndrome and plenty of mechanisms from DLCs are going to be in the base game of CK3. They already talked about dynamic religions from Holy Fury, we've seen lifestyles from Way of Life. Muslims and Pagans (as well as their government forms) are playable from the get go. While I haven't seen it confirmed, I'm pretty sure the same applies to Byzantine Empire. And I'd wager Jews and Zoroastrian religions would also be in.

At least the Old Gods' starting date is in. Both India and Tibet are not only in the base game but also expanded (so I'd assume the same applies to the steppes, unless they want to make the map look weird in north-eastern area). With how far east they get maybe we will see some interaction with China like we did in Jade Dragon. They want to emphasize the importance of dynasties so I'd bet at least dynastic chronicles from Charlemagne would make it (though I hope they will also make its starting date playable as it is my favorite).

I think something have been already said about favors (so Conclave content), albeit in context of espionage rather than dealing with the council. I'd wager most of Conclave content will get in in some form though, because character interaction is pretty much bread and butter of the game and I doubt they'd take a step back in this regard. The same general idea applies to Reapers Due because it's kinda baseline level of immersion at this point.

I recall something about both bloodlines and societies as well. And with them switching to 3D character models I assume they will want to show off the artifacts on your character.

So for what we already know, most of the big expansions feature are going to be in CK3 in one way or another. And plenty more should realistically be in as well since they have become the baseline for the game at this point. And most of the remaining expansion features that I haven't talked about are quality of life changes over the span of the game and I doubt they'd take a step back in regards to that either.

The only big DLC features that are missing are nomads, merchant republics and the Aztecs. Now, nomads and merchant republics are already confirmed not to make it into the base game, but it's not all that much. And merchant republics are kinda wonky so if they want to first focus on the base CK3 (including all the aforementioned CK2 DLC content) and tackle other government forms only later on, that's fine with me. Given how by largely avoiding Sims syndrome they prevented themselves from simply repeating the same things for the most pat, I think we will see even more government forms and other than nomads and merchant republics we will see brand new content like playable theocracies, holy orders and the like.

And speaking of Imperator Rome, that game is actually the reason why I'm optimistic about CK3. Because despite pushing the mana hard during its development and assuring the players it is better that way and people will like it, when it finally released and people still didn't like it, they actually listened and quickly changed a significant portion of the game. And by moving away from mana, they made the game feel more immersive (which is one of the most important aspects for CK in particular). And even made improvements to aspects of Paradox grand strategy games that haven't changed since at least EU3 like stability and reinforcements and made them more interesting. And that's before I:R even got a first DLC.

[endersblade]

People have taken to the Steam review pages of several Paradox games to protest against the removal of Deus Vult in CK3. In response to violation of use of the reviews on Steam, I have since had 64 of them removed and counting. I currently have 10 of them under review.

I don't know, I guess I just don't understand low IQ stupidity. There are plenty of legitimate places to complain about such things. Leaving negative reviews on, say, Hearts of Iron or Stellaris because of something they're doing to CK3 just doesn't pass my sanity check. That has absolutely nothing to do with those games. If you have an issue with Paradox, take it to the discussion boards, or better yet, post it on the Paradox forums.

[KrayZ33]

People are dumb, this is one of the reasons why rating games on steam shouldn't be possible.
Reviews without thumbs up/thumbs down for the game would be fine - together with the "like/dislike" function for said reviews themselves.

Shit like that won't help me decide to buy a game or not. In fact, I'll most likely end up buying it because all the negative stuff I read will be butthurt teenager BS and I'll end up thinking that the game is good/great if that is their most hated problem.

[Easo]

But sometimes there are no other ways to protest - if (not in this case) official forums are cleansed of every complaint, then review bombing companies products might become the only thing left to do.

[Palapop]

Is this the game where they removed "DEUS VULT!" due to "political correctness" and extremist Christians?

[endersblade]

But sometimes there are no other ways to protest - if (not in this case) official forums are cleansed of every complaint, then review bombing companies products might become the only thing left to do.

And I will be there to report every 'review' that protests. That's not what it's for, and there are NUMEROUS avenues to share your views legitimately. Once CK3 pops up on steam and people start review bombing it because of this, THAT is fine, since it is THAT particular game that people have issues with. But hating on Paradox in other Paradox game reviews is fucking childish, and is by no means a way to vent your frustrations with the company over something that doesn't involve that game.

This is why I'm glad Steam shows two review scores. Overall, and recent. When you see 'mostly positive' drop to 'mostly negative' overnight, it's usually quite obvious people are just acting like 5 year olds in their reviews.

[Echeyakee]

I just want to murder my way to being the ultimate Doge of Venice, and the only family with any real power, with an estate that puts french palaces to shame. While worshiping Satan, obviously.

And lets be honest, CK2 had Deus Vult in like one popup AFAIK, I'm sure there will be a mod that restores it within an hour of game releasing.

[Eldar45]

Is this the game where they removed "DEUS VULT!" due to "political correctness" and extremist Christians?

They removed Deus Vult because very vocal people got offended at memes.


It saddens me that they have to curtail to full grown children who don't like their variant of dirty words to get their game out.

- - - Updated - - -

And lets be honest, CK2 had Deus Vult in like one popup AFAIK, I'm sure there will be a mod that restores it within an hour of game releasing.

Deus will infact Vult, whether the easily offended want Him to or not.

[Palapop]

They removed Deus Vult because very vocal people got offended at memes.


It saddens me that they have to curtail to full grown children who don't like their variant of dirty words to get their game out.

Pathetic. They are removing our history, our creed, our identity.

[ParanoiD84]

Pathetic. They are removing our history, our creed, our identity.

Worry not my friend mods will let you Deus Vult all you want.

I also heard that that author put his own political stance in that article and that paradox have not yet desided what to do. Not really surprised if that's the case they do love to put their own little agendas in articles.

[Mehrunes]

I just want to murder my way to being the ultimate Doge of Venice, and the only family with any real power, with an estate that puts french palaces to shame. While worshiping Satan, obviously.

You'll have to wait for that, merchant republics won't be playable upon release.

I also heard that that author put his own political stance in that article and that paradox have not yet desided what to do. Not really surprised if that's the case they do love to put their own little agendas in articles.

That is correct. The article was redacted to properly showcase Paradox' stance.

[ParanoiD84]

That is correct. The article was redacted to properly showcase Paradox' stance.

Yeah personaly i dont care what paradox deside to do but he should keep his own personal views outside of that.

Cant wait for the game though i still have not mastered CK2 there is always new stuff i find. I hope this is atleast as big or bigger in scale and with as much replayability but most paradox games are and are designed to be.

[ThrashMetalFtw]

To be fair, CK2 is the first game of theirs since they changed their classic expansion model to a DLC model that is getting an expansion. So trying to judge how CK3 will look like based on games like HoI 4, Imperator Rome and Stellaris is a bit misguided. Especially since Stellaris and Imperator are new IPs and Stellaris was also a different kind of a grand strategy game than their usual bit. Besides if you look at CK2 at launch, it was also barebones compared to we got later on (or even the aforementioned Stellaris), while at the time of its release it was already a pretty good game compared to its predecessor. I'd say the case of HoI 4 is also largely tied to them trying to make the game more appealing to newer users because HoI 1-3 and Victoria were much more convoluted compared to their other titles.

And from what we know already, it seems it won't suffer from Sims syndrome and plenty of mechanisms from DLCs are going to be in the base game of CK3. They already talked about dynamic religions from Holy Fury, we've seen lifestyles from Way of Life. Muslims and Pagans (as well as their government forms) are playable from the get go. While I haven't seen it confirmed, I'm pretty sure the same applies to Byzantine Empire. And I'd wager Jews and Zoroastrian religions would also be in.

At least the Old Gods' starting date is in. Both India and Tibet are not only in the base game but also expanded (so I'd assume the same applies to the steppes, unless they want to make the map look weird in north-eastern area). With how far east they get maybe we will see some interaction with China like we did in Jade Dragon. They want to emphasize the importance of dynasties so I'd bet at least dynastic chronicles from Charlemagne would make it (though I hope they will also make its starting date playable as it is my favorite).

I think something have been already said about favors (so Conclave content), albeit in context of espionage rather than dealing with the council. I'd wager most of Conclave content will get in in some form though, because character interaction is pretty much bread and butter of the game and I doubt they'd take a step back in this regard. The same general idea applies to Reapers Due because it's kinda baseline level of immersion at this point.

I recall something about both bloodlines and societies as well. And with them switching to 3D character models I assume they will want to show off the artifacts on your character.

So for what we already know, most of the big expansions feature are going to be in CK3 in one way or another. And plenty more should realistically be in as well since they have become the baseline for the game at this point. And most of the remaining expansion features that I haven't talked about are quality of life changes over the span of the game and I doubt they'd take a step back in regards to that either.

The only big DLC features that are missing are nomads, merchant republics and the Aztecs. Now, nomads and merchant republics are already confirmed not to make it into the base game, but it's not all that much. And merchant republics are kinda wonky so if they want to first focus on the base CK3 (including all the aforementioned CK2 DLC content) and tackle other government forms only later on, that's fine with me. Given how by largely avoiding Sims syndrome they prevented themselves from simply repeating the same things for the most pat, I think we will see even more government forms and other than nomads and merchant republics we will see brand new content like playable theocracies, holy orders and the like.

And speaking of Imperator Rome, that game is actually the reason why I'm optimistic about CK3. Because despite pushing the mana hard during its development and assuring the players it is better that way and people will like it, when it finally released and people still didn't like it, they actually listened and quickly changed a significant portion of the game. And by moving away from mana, they made the game feel more immersive (which is one of the most important aspects for CK in particular). And even made improvements to aspects of Paradox grand strategy games that haven't changed since at least EU3 like stability and reinforcements and made them more interesting. And that's before I:R even got a first DLC.

CK2 and EU4 might have been barebones compared to their current versions when they were released, but they were still amazing games with rock solid mechanics at launch. The same can NOT be said for Stellaris, HoI4 or IR.

Always thought HoI4 was the worst offender though. HoI4 at launch made IR at launch seem like a game with 5 years worth of DLC.

[Lazuli]

Sick, in a few years and $200 of DLC it will be a great game to buy 6 years later when the bundle sale goes up.

[niztheundead87]

Is this the game where they removed "DEUS VULT!" due to "political correctness" and extremist Christians?

Game is called crusader kings
Game involves Deus cult
Autistic sjws : reee

[Mehrunes]

From more recent information it looks like character inventory won't be in the base game, sadly. Neither will societies and great works. Kinda sad, in regards to each of those. Also, you still won't be able to play as a baron. I hoped you would be given how each barony is now visible as a separate zone on the map, so it's rather disappointing. Also, Paradox is axing most of the start dates. The later start dates are gone. As well as the Charlemagne one (which is a shame as it was my favorite).

From the positive news, cadet houses are in though. Also, Muslims no longer have the decadence system. Which is also kinda good because it was generally annoying. I hope they will retain the aspect of trying to influence/having to deal with your relatives that besmirch the good name of your dynasty. Not necessarily just for Muslims, but for everyone. With the increased focus on dynasties it would make sense to have that. And I wonder how bastard dynasties will be treated in regards to the cadet house system.