[TV] Watchmen

[cface]

Only seen the first episode, but this was complete garbage. Did not expect this from Lindelof. Badass hero who is angry against other people that are angry. What are we inside a teenagers daydreams in high school?

Was really hoping for something masterful that The Boys delivered.

[jimboa24]

Well, the Tulsa race riot is an actual historical event that happened in 1921. I don't know why they specifically chose it, maybe someone else can fill in if the Watchmen universe has some sort of connection to it. It could just be a good place to anchor it.

Yeah, I knew about the Tulsa massacre; few people do, since after it happened it seemed like the entire city and the surrounding region and everyone in them collectively decided to forget the event. I'm just not sure how it's relevant to the Watchmen universe as a whole; I don't remember racial discord being a strong plot element of the movie and as far as I know it isn't in the comic book either.

[molliewoof]

It was ok, because nothing really happened in the episode, I don't think the reveal at the end was enough to keep me looking out for ut. if I see it listed and have nothing else to watch will watch it.

[cyberglum]

Yeah, I knew about the Tulsa massacre; few people do, since after it happened it seemed like the entire city and the surrounding region and everyone in them collectively decided to forget the event. I'm just not sure how it's relevant to the Watchmen universe as a whole; I don't remember racial discord being a strong plot element of the movie and as far as I know it isn't in the comic book either.

Apparently, from what I've read, Lindelof decided that because Watchmen originally had the Cold War as a plot element which was the main social-political issue at the time, then the new series should focus on todays current social-political issue; racial discord.

Just what you need in a bit of escapism.

[eschatological]

Apparently, from what I've read, Lindelof decided that because Watchmen originally had the Cold War as a plot element which was the main social-political issue at the time, then the new series should focus on todays current social-political issue; racial discord.

Just what you need in a bit of escapism.

If you're looking to Watchmen for escapism, IDK what to tell you. The Watchmen universe is super dystopian and deconstructive of the "hero myth," with a 5 term President Nixon and a frantic ramp up to thermonuclear war.

I guess replacing the Cold War with internal, American racism is more difficult for some Americans because it's not as black and white (pun intended) and some of the bad guys are....us.

[jimboa24]

I guess replacing the Cold War with internal, American racism is more difficult for some Americans because it's not as black and white (pun intended) and some of the bad guys are....us.

It depends on the angle they approach it with and what kind of point they're trying to make. There are radical nutballs who seriously think that if you're white, that automatically makes you a racist who needs to apologize to the nearest brown or black person for your privilege. Fuck that. And I don't need a TV show wagging its finger at me like that.

Now I don't THINK Watchmen is going to go that route, but who knows. If it gets too obnoxious or preachy, then I simply won't be watching it.

[s_bushido]

Apparently, from what I've read, Lindelof decided that because Watchmen originally had the Cold War as a plot element which was the main social-political issue at the time, then the new series should focus on todays current social-political issue; racial discord.

Just what you need in a bit of escapism.

A plot element? It (and the looming threat of all-out nuclear war) was the main motivation for what happened... The whole thing was social commentary. It's only pure escapism now because we're a couple generations removed at this point, but that doesn't change what it was at the time it was written.

[cyberglum]

If you're looking to Watchmen for escapism, IDK what to tell you. The Watchmen universe is super dystopian and deconstructive of the "hero myth," with a 5 term President Nixon and a frantic ramp up to thermonuclear war.

I guess replacing the Cold War with internal, American racism is more difficult for some Americans because it's not as black and white (pun intended) and some of the bad guys are....us.

Not being American I wouldn't know.

A plot element? It (and the looming threat of all-out nuclear war) was the main motivation for what happened... The whole thing was social commentary. It's only pure escapism now because we're a couple generations removed at this point, but that doesn't change what it was at the time it was written.

Well, I used the term plot element, he may have phrased it differently. Regardless, that's not what its really about, it's about the characters.

Comics with brightly clad heroes and god-like beings fall into the catagory of escapism for me.

[eschatological]

Except these heroes have been outlawed, most are retired, they're lonely or psychotic or violent or manipulative industrialists or........they're a godlike being with no remaining empathy who can explode people with his mind.

[Jotaux]

The cold war was a backdrop to watchmen. The motivation for Ozymandus to do what he did. Much like the racial tension is a backdrop for this series. Though to be honest so far they haven’t made much of the white supremacy, it’s more cops vs 7th legion or w/e they are called and the flash back to the 1920s(?).

[Woadnson]

Another element is the McCarthy era issues that Moore transposed from the Justice Society, and that seems to be the major theme here, thus far.
Can Justice be served whilst wearing a mask? The tug of war society has between privacy, identity, trust and security.

I had low expectations, but I'm honestly surprised by the maturity of Lindelof's premise. He may throw away my respect later in the series, but for now, I think I'm a fan.
With regards to it being escapism, I think y'all are barking up the wrong tree, though the cinematography is pretty good so it's not impossible. To quote Lindelof;

"We want some degree of escapism — but I think that there is a responsibility, even if you're doing comic book storytelling to mirror the world that we're living in now and reflect it back at the audience."

https://www.npr.org/2019/10/22/77199...-irresponsible

[mojojojo202]

Most of the technical stuff was great, but all in all, I wasn't really that impressed.

I just found the whole thing a bit confusing and intangible, could imagine people not very aware of the Watchmen comic pretty alienated.

[WintersLegion]

Most of the technical stuff was great, but all in all, I wasn't really that impressed.

I just found the whole thing a bit confusing and intangible, could imagine people not very aware of the Watchmen comic pretty alienated.

Yeah I had rented the movie one day had never heard of the series before so was just expecting a fun super hero movie and was completely shocked what with one of the hero's being a rapist and such.

[kail]

In the movie, they replaced the fabricated giant alien squid invasion of the comic with the framing of Dr. Manhattan for vaporizing several cities. This is apparently following the comic rather than the movie. But both were a ploy by Ozymandias to bring the world back from the brink of nuclear annihilation. (if I remember correctly)

Yeah, still need an explanation. Is the monster still alive in NY?

As for the first episode, it was quite entertaining. I liked the pod interrogation scene for example but for a pilot it did little to set a stage. It left me with too many questions.

[PrimiOne]

Yeah, still need an explanation. Is the monster still alive in NY?

The first time we see Dr Manhattan in the comics is in the scene where Rorschach goes to warn him there's a plot to kill superheros. At that time Manhattan is using his powers to teleport a machine for a project Ozymandias is working on.

Later we discover Ozymandias was actually trying to reproduce Manhattan teleportation powers.

He uses that technology to teleport the giant alien into a building killing it. The death of the alien generates a psychic scream that kills everybody around.

This is the part that Zack Snyder ( or the producers or who the fuck knows) found too complex for the general public to understand ( I'm still trying to understand why) so they changed it.

It's specially relevant because if we look at the proper context in 1987 that's a direct reference to the rather famous speech of Ronald Reagan in the UN assembly talking about how an alien invasion would unite the whole world against that threat.

That's precisely what happens in the comics: the world see that event as an alien invasion and...unite.

In the movie Ozymandias reproduce ...I don't know .Manhattan energy projection? or something so the world unite...against Manhattan.

Anyway the alien is dead.

Now I found disturbing that people can understand Manhattan perception of time is not linear so Ozymandias needs to create a machine who emits tachyons into the past to ofuscate Manhattan perception of the future events ( Manhattan confuses that blur in the future with an open nuclear war) ....but can't understand a psychic scream of an alien dying.....

Hollywood misteries....

[kail]

So alien is dead. The raining squid are the offsprings? That's the norm in the area? Cloudy with a chance of alien squidlings?

[Ausr]

Figured I'd give it a shot and watch it tonight.

I have no fucking clue what I watched.

[Voidwielder]

If you're looking to Watchmen for escapism, IDK what to tell you. The Watchmen universe is super dystopian and deconstructive of the "hero myth," with a 5 term President Nixon and a frantic ramp up to thermonuclear war.

I guess replacing the Cold War with internal, American racism is more difficult for some Americans because it's not as black and white (pun intended) and some of the bad guys are....us.

And this is why it's so bad. Watchmen dealt with the cosmic-political problems and cosmic-character problems. The Cold War was/is portrayed as impersonal, a cloud weighing on everyone.

White supremacy as the main problem of the new series by definition is personal.

- - - Updated - - -

''Vigilantism is stupid'' is one of the main themes of the story. Where in this ''take'' does that figure, I do not see. Could've called the show Zanzibar Gem for what it's worth.

[Zaktar]

So alien is dead. The raining squid are the offsprings? That's the norm in the area? Cloudy with a chance of alien squidlings?

Presumably they'll explain it, my assumption was that they are little scouts or something?

Maybe this is silly but it makes me a little sad that Rorschach's mask is now possibly irrevocably tied to white supremacy. I wonder if it will be used as such in the real world.

[s_bushido]

''Vigilantism is stupid'' is one of the main themes of the story. Where in this ''take'' does that figure, I do not see. Could've called the show Zanzibar Gem for what it's worth.

Is that one of the main themes? Kick-Ass did the "vigilantes are idiots," thing. Watchmen was more about the excesses and dangers of unregulated power (governments as well as "superheroes")...or at least that's what I got out of it.

But this criticism sounds a bit like "they're stuck on a space station, not out exploring strange new worlds, DS9 shouldn't be called Star Trek!"

Maybe this is silly but it makes me a little sad that Rorschach's mask is now possibly irrevocably tied to white supremacy. I wonder if it will be used as such in the real world.

Nah. It looked like the interrogation scene was there to imply that the cop with the reflective mask was more akin to the "real" Rorschach. Although maybe that's just because it reminded me of the animated mask from the movie. And then again, Rorschach wasn't exactly a good guy...