I understand WHY people love TBC, but....

[Mukind]

I never cared for classic much. To me it was a very large step down from other existing MMOs. It didn't have the world building or functionality of Ultima, didn't have the PvP like DAoC and the PvE never felt more than gutted EQ. It was a massively watered down experience for casuals, little else. It was the game for the tots who refused to communicate or forge a community, who absolutely needed solo content and to be wrangled into instances.

It's always funny to watch people sing accolades of classic over things that WoW was trying to kill from day one.

TBC is where an actual game and identity was forged, as far as I am concerned, same evils but at least they now had game design behind them. I still like a lot about TBC that I can actually quantify beyond "I done growed up wid it". I'd love to return to that era of class design most of all, where you started to have polished kits formed around actual identities.

Yea this argument makes no sense

"i played crappy niche games no one knew or cared about, so wow was always casual by those standards" lol thanks bruh

no one cares, especially not WoW players

The genre was born at WoW. Before that was just a fucking joke, really every MMO i've ever played but WoW was a joke.

SWTOR and FF14 included, which both had fucking massive budgets. I can only imagine the terrible terrible crap that was put up with in EQ, runescape, and ultima lol.

Arenas are terrible. Period

[SirCowdog]

Yea this argument makes no sense

"i played crappy niche games no one knew or cared about, so wow was always casual by those standards" lol thanks bruh

no one cares, especially not WoW players

The genre was born at WoW. Before that was just a fucking joke, really every MMO i've ever played but WoW was a joke.

SWTOR and FF14 included, which both had fucking massive budgets. I can only imagine the terrible terrible crap that was put up with in EQ, runescape, and ultima lol.

Arenas are terrible. Period

Niche games no one knew about....really? What are you...18? Wow would not even exist without UO, EQ, and DAoC.

Wtf is wrong with you? O_o

[Mukind]

Niche games no one knew about....really? What are you...18? Wow would not even exist without UO, EQ, and DAoC.

Wtf is wrong with you? O_o

If u think anyone knew about those games u are in a giant PC* gamer bubble

Many Americans didn't have net lol

[Greengrim]

TBC is a VERY good PVE game and sucks at everything else...

I stopped reading exactly there...

TBC introduced arenas, which were A BLAST to play back in the day. Apart from that, BG's were still actual and full of people farming honor and honorable kills. World PvP events in Hellfire Peninsula/Nagrand/Zangarmarsh actually had people doing them all the time.

So no dear sir, you are very much in the wrong imHo. TBC and WotLK are simply the 2 best expansions this game has ever had, before class homogenization, talent fucking, titanforging, artifact power, and all of these retarded game designs came along...

[lummiuster]

Arena is for plebs you have no taste thanks for ruining tab targeting pvp brah

Had they added in a BG system with MMR, then we'd be talking. And not done this limited action BS where u can't use the items u farm int he world....

Terrible limited action set BS

All of you saying you love arena. Fuck you plebs

Can't agree more with you on the arena part. Arena ruined the game. Ever since it was implemented, blizzard tried to balance all the classes to be as good in arena rather than focus on the world. And now all classes have fuckin annoying abilities.
I'm extremely against BGs with MMR though. That is one thing that would be me quit the game for sure.
Imo TBC brought many changes that were very good (excluding arena of course). The raids were very good, all the classes were more complete (ie, elemental, spriest, ret, feral were still bad dps but not at least viable).

[Snackpack]

Flying didn't kill wpvp, having shit to do killed wpvp.

I agree. In retail there's so much to do to stay relevant (endless AP grind, mythic+ grind, WQs) that I don't use my spare time to wpvp. When I want to PVP I do BG's or Arena, for a sense of progression.

In Vanilla/TBC there wasn't much else to do at end-game.

[Kaibhan]

Oh look another I don't want something so no one should get it thread. What a unique and interesting blog.

[Mukind]

Can't agree more with you on the arena part. Arena ruined the game. Ever since it was implemented, blizzard tried to balance all the classes to be as good in arena rather than focus on the world. And now all classes have fuckin annoying abilities.
I'm extremely against BGs with MMR though. That is one thing that would be me quit the game for sure.
Imo TBC brought many changes that were very good (excluding arena of course). The raids were very good, all the classes were more complete (ie, elemental, spriest, ret, feral were still bad dps but not at least viable).

I'm not saying necessarily anything but cosmetics should be tied to it

Just there should be an MMR system you can opt into once there were cross server ques for full 10 mans. You had to add some sort of rating system in so you weren't just rolling/getting rolled every match in a one sided slaughter. Depending on how ur team was relative to the average in que.

I think the problem is they would have to have each BG have it's own rating. Which is the only rational reason to think about something like arena. Having ratings across maps makes much more sense in arena than getting your MMR from AV, WSG, and AB.

Only possible defense of death match i can come up with that a dev might have said. They wanted a MMR system and found putting one onto BG's too much of a pain.

[Maudib]

[FONT=Arial Black]

Flying destroyed world pvp. Instantly. Nothing more to say about that.

Did it really? Exactly how is that? Flying is a method of transportation between two locations. If anything it enhanced World PvP by allowing players to swoop in from above and engage unsuspecting players...

Sure some people would stay mounted and up out of reach while they went AFK... but... what PvP did that harm other than ganking?

People flying all the time? Except when they were engaigng world content.. like dailies, farming, etc.

It did give people a way to escape PvP if they did not want to... in some cases.

[lummiuster]

I'm not saying necessarily anything but cosmetics should be tied to it

Just there should be an MMR system you can opt into once there were cross server ques for full 10 mans. You had to add some sort of rating system in so you weren't just rolling/getting rolled every match in a one sided slaughter. Depending on how ur team was relative to the average in que.

I think the problem is they would have to have each BG have it's own rating. Which is the only rational reason to think about something like arena. Having ratings across maps makes much more sense in arena than getting your MMR from AV, WSG, and AB.

Only possible defense of death match i can come up with that a dev might have said. They wanted a MMR system and found putting one onto BG's too much of a pain.

naaah. My good times was me and my friend being the serial killers of the BGs (almost always on top). We would wreck havoc and have people run away from us. Some games, we would meet no-life serial killers that would just overpower/farm us. Some times we would meet strong players and they would be our rival the whole game. I love and want this to remain. I dont want to be in a BG where everyone are playing META, dispel like crazy and good healers. It sucks.
I want to wreck, get wrecked and have rivalries.

[Mukind]

no, I just main a rogue which means big scale pvp is absolutely unenjoyable for me.

I like Wpvp duels and 2v2/3v3 arenas but even 5v5 is too much.

arenas is the best thing that has ever happened to wow.

it gave us a clear gearing path to pvp, even if you didnt have 20 hours a day to play.
it rewarded skill instead of mindless grind, and it gave a more enjoyable pvp experience to those who dont like mass scale pvp.

BGs are still there in TBC, you can still play them.

IDK how TBC bg meta is, but in vanilla rogues have a role in BG's

None of what you described has anything to do with arenas.

You coulda given you an MMR system and clear path to gear with BG's.

Arenas are still dogshit, stop

[shaunika123]

IDK how TBC bg meta is, but in vanilla rogues have a role in BG's

None of what you described has anything to do with arenas.

You coulda given you an MMR system and clear path to gear with BG's.

Arenas are still dogshit, stop

"oranges are dogshit, just eat apples they're way better"

just because rogues had their roles in BGs doesnt mean it was enjoyable.

being nothing more than a sap/blind bot to ninja flags in AB/AV is not really fun.

I hate 3 out of 2 BGs in classic. (WSG and AV) and I like one of them.

but putting a rated MMR System on a BG is shit, wouldnt work.
fuck having to find 9-14 skilled people to play with.

one is difficult enough.

[Gasparde]

'world pvp' is such a fucking annoying phrase these days, holy fucking shit.

Like, no one ever really specifies what they truly mean with their sacred world pvp. I've never experienced any enjoyable world pvp. World pvp on all of my servers has always been either 5 capped people camping a lone level 43 player or some random fucking rogues waiting until you pulled a mob to ambush you. There was never any honorable dueling going on, never any back and forth, never any fucking challenge; it's always been one side utterly destroying a few lone souls and never anything else.

I have no fucking clue how anyone would want something like that back. I'd love to see footage from those mystical servers were open pvp was anything else than lowbie ganking or fucking up some unsuspecting questers.

Fuck world pvp. Fuck everything about it. I'm glad it's gone and I'm glad they're not spending any resources on keeping that bullshit alive. World pvp comes from the same crowd that enjoyed lvl 19 bis equipped warsong twinks stomping on questing-green equipped level 14s. So yea, super sad that we've lost this awesome feature that was world pvp.

[ifrah]

Many people are glorifying this world pvp still based on those distant memories of the TM/SS/Ashenvale/etc. raids which honestly saying were fun for the time being before BGs were launched, but not for too long really. Battlegrounds killed a lion's share of world pvp in vanilla already, so let's just quit the moaning right there. What was left was the odd outnumbered and/or outleveled gankfests at instance entrances and/or whatever quest/transportation hub of choice. At least on the realm I played, ever since the BGs had been rolled out, all those "epic outdoor pvp raids" were pretty solidly dead. Mostly what was left, you either a) ran into an enemy faction raid around the instance entrance, or b) ran into some random gankers stalking for easy (and often low-level) kills.
I've been playing at PvP servers 100% of my time, and I do enjoy the constant danger out there, but then again for most of the time world pvp is just dogshit.

[Cerus]

Flying destroyed world pvp. Instantly. Nothing more to say about that.

You’re as wrong as everyone else who’s spouted this nonsense over the years. Flying did not kill world pvp. Blizzard did when they released BGs long before TBC and flying.

It was still popular with all the zone additions.

[Bane-Thunder-God]

You’re as wrong as everyone else who’s spouted this nonsense over the years. Flying did not kill world pvp. Blizzard did when they released BGs long before TBC and flying.

It was still popular with all the zone additions.

WPVP is overrated. Its fun in short bursts but its certainly not fun if you are outnumbered and being spawn camped.

BGs are the best thing to happen to WoW PvP and I think Arenas are not.

Arenas need to be made less important and BGs need to be made more so with Ranked BGs as an option for solo queuing like any other game where you can queue for non-ranked or ranked pvp matches.

Your rating should be based on your personal participation how much work you put into the objectives flag carries/returns and point captures/disruptions (in AB for example) and lastly number of kills.

[Nite92]

TLDR. TBC introduced too many catch up systems, flying killed world pvp, arena killed classes being unique and broke all other forums of pvp except 3 v 3, segregation of pve content got out of control eventually and further led to class homogenization, it was the first implemenation of a group finder (no one used it), dailies replaced organic pvp and farming content, old world is now useless.

Too many catch up systems? IIRC, SWP catchups did cost ~75 to 150 badges, and you 2 for your hc daily, 1 for each hc boss and roughly 15-20 in kara. That are like 50 bageds a week. Then you could buy some stuff but many of those items weren't that good. The earlier introduced badge items were even used by cutting edge raiders. So can hardly call them catch up.

Class homogenization in TBC? WTF dude, no way. Are you one of the guys which are salty bcs priests could do more than heal now? Just from a healer PoV, ST healer: paladin, HoT healer: druid, Grp healer: shaman, Priest: a bit of everything. But yeah they bascially played all the same. /s off


The group finder is a joke right? You do realize that the group finder is literally a modified world chat and nothing more.

No world pvp? Yeah sure, except at every instance entrace and open world grinding spot.

[Nite92]

You have those two sentences the wrong way around.

Vanilla had almost NOTHING to do at all ... the current expansion has heaps of stuff to do.

Once you hit 60 on Vanilla after 80% doing nothing and 20% killing 50 mobs for 3 drops - you had nothing to do unless you were lucky enough to raid.

Vanilla is a tiny subset of BfA.

Please be rational.

I think that is more nuanced. Technically both have enough content to keep you busy. It just depends on what you like. If you are not into grinding a dungeon for 53 times to get hand of justice, Vanilla has not alot of stuff you like, which does not mean there is not a lot of stuff.

BFA has alot of content outside of the "normal reward structure (gold, gear)". Like pet battles/acms and so on.

So I guess, if you think one game has so much less content, it may be that you just dont like alot of the content offered.

[schwarzkopf]

I think that is more nuanced.

Nope - no nuance , just absolute fact.

In classic you had grinding to max level,a few battle grounds, dungeons and raids. That is - once you hit level 60, there is nothing for you as an individual to do.
In retail .. after max level, you have battlegrounds, dungeons, raids, arena, pet battles, achievements, world quests, max level questlines, mythic+ - almost all of which is available as an individual.

[Charge me Doctor]

Nope - no nuance , just absolute fact.

In classic you had grinding to max level,a few battle grounds, dungeons and raids. That is - once you hit level 60, there is nothing for you as an individual to do.
In retail .. after max level, you have battlegrounds, dungeons, raids, arena, pet battles, achievements, world quests, max level questlines, mythic+ - almost all of which is available as an individual.

I think your definition of "as an individual" is kinda off, because you can't do dungeons, raids and arenas "as an individual"