Naysayers are short sighted

[Gungnir]

They stated TF is completely gone for 8.3 and listed a ton of reasons why they removed it. I think it’ll be gone for this expansion as well considering they said they’re focusing heavily on player agency. My post was before the panel, aimed at telling people to wait for the panel because we have no info and they were crying about having too little info but for some reason didn’t think about waiting for the panel(s).

There’s more panels tomorrow, this seemed like it was just a TLDR panel to let us know some more info. Systems and features panel+class design panel are both tomorrow and we’ll get even more info.

I mean it still isn't much in comparison to other expansion launches.
And I am pretty sure we'll get some form of TF, probably under a different name but still as RNG heavy, because it's what they turn to use as their 'player retention device' to make sure people still log in and play 24/7.

I'm not saying its all gonna be a good thing but that one way or another, its gonna be a new experience.

Aye of course, the same way a vat of acid might be a new experience compared to a bear trap.
I'm basically withholding judgement until class designs because holy hell I couldn't even stand logging in to BfA with the state of the class design they had.

[Dwarfhamster]

I'm fine with a "smaller" expansion with less goodies like new races or classes if Blizz can focus on producing good gameplay and mechanics for PVP and PVE. We have plenty of races and classes and improving the playing experience and storyline will keep folks playing and maybe even bring some back.

[The Betrayer]

I love it how people been telling Blizzard that WoW needed a big change, that it was in the wrong path etc. Most people hated BFA and they lost an immense amount of subs, so they do a MASSIVE change of direction after an even more massive research (every single person who unsubbed during early bfa was invited to answer a questionnaire) and you guys are not even waiting for the whats next panel before bitching. Shame on you.

If they were actually listening, no new class means an entire rework of existing classes. No new races mean enhanced customization to current races (and thats already confirmed as a feature on the preorder page)

Classic meant they went back and saw what made it good and will work to make retail a better experience.

Have a little faith.

What MASSIVE change of direction have I missed?

[SirCowdog]

Have a little faith.

Yeah, judging by WoD and BfA, they already used up whatever faith was left in them. Now it's time for BLIZZARD to regain some credibility. They have to earn back the trust they burned over the past year.

[CoolOnlineDog420]

Have a little faith? Blizzard hasn't done anything in years to earn it.

People like you are hilarious. You will come on here with your overly negative pessimism and say stuff like this and believe it, yet somehow continue playing/caring about the game for years on end.

If Blizzard are really the big bad stinky poo poo evils, and you stuck around with them knowing that for years on end, what does that make YOU? I have a few words but I'll leave it to your imagination

[Rendark]

People like you are hilarious. You will come on here with your overly negative pessimism and say stuff like this and believe it, yet somehow continue playing/caring about the game for years on end.

If Blizzard are really the big bad stinky poo poo evils, and you stuck around with them knowing that for years on end, what does that make YOU? I have a few words but I'll leave it to your imagination

I don't play the game anymore but i do like to see if it's getting any better. Seeing as it's not tho i do like to laugh at it.

[Arthzull]

We have all the info we need. They did a level squish. The end. Game is over.

Maybe for you! Not for me. I am excited for everything.

Also they did a lot more than a level squish maybe you should go read the actual features.

[Taeldorian]

I mean it still isn't much in comparison to other expansion launches.
And I am pretty sure we'll get some form of TF, probably under a different name but still as RNG heavy, because it's what they turn to use as their 'player retention device' to make sure people still log in and play 24/7.



Aye of course, the same way a vat of acid might be a new experience compared to a bear trap.
I'm basically withholding judgement until class designs because holy hell I couldn't even stand logging in to BfA with the state of the class design they had.

Maybe, but based on the panel it seems they want to turn away from RNG so we’ll see. More player agency was emphasized pretty massively and he also gave examples of how they’re going to do that. Now obviously you can remain skeptical that’s totally fine but I don’t think we’ll see TF again.

Also, I don’t think any of this is “light” compared to what we’ve seen in the past. No new class doesn’t automatically make it a light announcement lol. There’s a ton of info out right now and most of it (imo) looks and sounds great assuming it’ll all come to pass. We have two gigantic panels tomorrow (systems+features and class design) which will give us even more information. There’s a lot of fairly good info out right now so I’m not willing to say the announcement was light at all. We got a lot of exciting info from the What’s Next panel and we’ll get even more tomorrow.

[Gungnir]

Maybe, but based on the panel it seems they want to turn away from RNG so we’ll see. More player agency was emphasized pretty massively and he also gave examples of how they’re going to do that. Now obviously you can remain skeptical that’s totally fine but I don’t think we’ll see TF again.

Also, I don’t think any of this is “light” compared to what we’ve seen in the past. No new class doesn’t automatically make it a light announcement lol. There’s a ton of info out right now and most of it (imo) looks and sounds great assuming it’ll all come to pass. We have two gigantic panels tomorrow (systems+features and class design) which will give us even more information. There’s a lot of fairly good info out right now so I’m not willing to say the announcement was light at all. We got a lot of exciting info from the What’s Next panel and we’ll get even more tomorrow.

It's light because it really doesn't have many new and large changes, most of it is un-fucking what they previously fucked up in regards to alt friendliness, leveling etc.
I think it's about time that they adressed the absolutely tremendous amount of issues that the playerbase was experiencing but a lot of it could've been done through a larger patch.

Basically the only 'new expansion' worthy content would be the 5 new areas, the infinite dungeon and Covenants that are basically an updated version of the Class Hall.

[Aurabolt]

That is a poor example for hope.

New customization =/= new classes.

I know, Captain Obvious.

Also, I don't recall anything about giving you "hope". As others have said for years, if you don't like the direcrion of WoW then show it with your wallet. LOL.

[Sluvs]

I know, Captain Obvious.

Also, I don't recall anything about giving you "hope". As others have said for years, if you don't like the direcrion of WoW then show it with your wallet. LOL.

When you compare any expansion with WoD is not a good look. Not to mention that WoD at least revamped the character models.

Once we leave the shadowlands, what we will carry away from this expansion? A class would be perfect to make this expansion amazing.

And this is an incredibly dishonest way to dismiss criticism, I can like something and still criticize it.

None of the expansions were 'sold' to me because of a new class/race. I played the expansion for their content. Classes/races ain't content to me, it's just a topping on the ice-cream.

Good for you, but a class is a new system that makes you interact with the world in a different way than the other. And that is awesome.

A new class is a huge selling point, there is no point in denying that.

Why? Did you bitch at TBC, Cataclysm, WoD and BFA for that reason too?

No, because we got new races. And I did complain about WoD a little.

So did you bitch when BFA, Cata, and TBC didn't have a new class?



Hopefully we get a fuckton of customization options to make up the difference but there are a ton of NPC races being added.

No, because we got a new race.

Not that hard to understand.

So you're demanding there be new classes but you don't even have any idea on what could be added. You're basically saying "I don't know just make up something".

I mean you don't make much of an argument to Blizzard by saying "I don't know, it's your job to make up new classes not mine".

Even if Blizzard would add a new class you'd probably still complain about something else in the game so what's the point? If you're not satisfied with the amount of classes we have now when will you be?

That is literally their job. To make stuff up. To make the game up so we can play. Monk was made up and I loved it.
This argument of "suggest something or GTFO" is an incredibly flawed one.

I can criticize their lack of innovation without having to suggest anything.

And do not presume. I would definitely not criticize and I WOULD be satisfied with a class. There is always room and design room for more classes.

[UnluckyAmateur]

No, because we got a new race.

Not that hard to understand.

And we're getting tons of customization options now to expand on previous content, not hard to understand.

[Teekey]

If they were actually listening, no new class means an entire rework of existing classes. No new races mean enhanced customization to current races (and thats already confirmed as a feature on the preorder page)

So basically we're getting fixes they should have made a year+ ago, and a feature they should have added as patch content years ago.

Neither of which should be an Expansion selling point in 2020. Got it.

[Smarmy Orc]

And we're getting tons of customization options now to expand on previous content, not hard to understand.

Sounds boring

[Sluvs]

And we're getting tons of customization options now to expand on previous content, not hard to understand.

Do you really think that a few customization options are the same as a new race or a new class?

Really?

[Tiradon]

I think they will unPrune the game which might be good.

Let’s wait and see after Deep Dive

[Sanguinerd]

I really don't understand why a new class would make or break a new expansion..

[Yizu]

Remember when people had faith that the Burning of Teldrassil wasn't going to be one-dimensional?

Remember when people had faith that Sylvanas actually cared about the Horde?

We are still not sure what is up with the burning of teldrassil, this doesnt tell us anything, there are still a lot of speculations about Elune and the origins of night elves. Also Sylvanas never cared about the horde.

[Shinrael]

The lack of a class is a very good reason to "bitch"

Let's not be entitled. And let us appreciate that in front of our eyes. WoW is a beautiful game. As a person who loves this game from the bottom of his heart, I can give you a list of problems that it has bigger than that of any naysayer. But you don't see me whining about the game? I try to share new ideas, speculate, discuss, appreciate what's already there and dream about what could be in store for us in the future. I try to be constructive when I post criticism and I try to be objective. Can you look into my eyes (figuratively) and claim the same about yourself?

[Thage]

'Wait and See' is dogshit gaming design and every single bad first impression for an expac has ended up being right in the end.


There's nothing illogical about immediately being turned off from this xpac.

Not all of them. MoP ended up very well-received once the usual suspects got over themselves because 'amgah pendaz,' and for several specs it's looked on fondly as their apex before WoD introduced many of those same specs to their nadir (Arms and Windwalker come immediately to mind; 5.2 Windwalker and 5.4 Arms are the best those specs have been in my personal opinion). Not to say Shadowlands isn't looking highly disappointing, and after the past two years Blizz most resoundingly does not deserve benefit of the doubt. Ball's in their court to earn my money, I'm not obligated to give them it because brand loyalty or whatever.