Suffering never ends for night elfs. Now literally.

[Combatbutler]

But she's the one that caused everyone who dies to go to the Maw. It'd be her "saving" us from the thing she caused.

The maw was broken for years, how could someone like Sylvanas actually break it? That is way beyond her ability, heck it might have been broken since before cata.

[LanToaster]

How is she the reason they're in the Maw when Shadowland's mechanics broke years ago?

Uhhm. This sounds like it:

The machine of death is broken, and players entering the Shadowlands will find the realm of the dead in disarray. In the natural order of things, souls are sorted and sent on to an afterlife realm appropriate to the lives they lived, but now, but over the past few years, all souls who have perished—including the innocents slain at Teldrassil—are being funneled directly into the Maw. The Shadowlands are starving for anima even as the Maw continues to grow from the glut of fresh souls.

Sylvanas has been seemingly perpetrating acts to bring about great amounts of death and destruction. In partnership with the Jailer, they have been working toward a common end for some time.

Basically, as Sylvanas is working with the Jailer for some time. She must have known this. So while maybe Sylvanas might not have Broken Death, she still used it.

[LostSinclair]

Wonder if Tyrande is going to have a role to play in all that since a large chunk of her former people are currently stuck there.

[Ielenia]

Uhhm. This sounds like it:


Basically, as Sylvanas is working with the Jailer for some time. She must have known this. So while maybe Sylvanas might not have Broken Death, she still used it.

Considering it says "few years" that the "death machine" has been broken, it doesn't mean this is not something either caused by Sylvanas, or something that Sylvanas helped happen, considering it's been more than "a few years" since Sylvanas has been turned into what she is right now, isn't it?

[Sangris]

But she's the one that caused everyone who dies to go to the Maw. It'd be her "saving" us from the thing she caused.

As @Mehrunes already pointed out, Ion directly stated in yesterday's panel that the eternal Damnation thing started years ago. This means that, as much as you want to pin it on her, it's not Sylvanas' doing. Sylvanas' actions will lead to us stopping this shit from happening anymore, so Blizzard basically sets her up to save everyone from this shit eternity of torture.

[Combatbutler]

Considering it says "few years" that the "death machine" has been broken, it doesn't mean this is not something either caused by Sylvanas, or something that Sylvanas helped happen, considering it's been more than "a few years" since Sylvanas has been turned into what she is right now, isn't it?

How the hell would a meager banshee break death? Sylvanas breaking one of the cosmic forces would make absolutely zero sense, her abusing the whole thing after learning about it, seems far more likely.

Heck her own death could be an indication, the first time she died she tasted paradise, the second time it was the maw at a time she had not yet racked up such a kill count that would justify such damnation, heck Kael'thas did not end up in the maw and he was on board with the legion at the end.

The real question is what broke death and how can it be fixed.

[Ielenia]

How the hell would a meager banshee break death? Sylvanas breaking one of the cosmic forces would make absolutely zero sense, her abusing the whole thing after learning about it, seems far more likely.

I'd like to point out the part in my post, that you quoted, that says "helped happen". As for the "how", do you really think it's that unthinkable? I mean, we learned Silvanas made a deal with Helya back in Legion, and we learn she also had a deal with Azshara in this expansion. And now we know she has a third deal going, this time with the Jailer. So it's not that big of a leap of logic to assume she might have other deals going on that we don't know about.

Also, regarding her "breaking one of the cosmic forces would make absolutely zero sense": she just ripped in half, bare-handed, an artifact so powerful that, when destroyed, literally broke the barrier between life and death.

[LanToaster]

Considering it says "few years" that the "death machine" has been broken, it doesn't mean this is not something either caused by Sylvanas, or something that Sylvanas helped happen, considering it's been more than "a few years" since Sylvanas has been turned into what she is right now, isn't it?

Yea, if you actually read what you Quoted, I said:
Maybe Sylvanas might not have Broken Death, but she knew about it. And Worked with the Jailor and send Innocent people to the Maw.

Also, (I dunno about an Official Source) according to this TimeLine, there are at least 6 Years since WotLk, and around 10 Years since Sylvanas became Undead / The Creation of the Forsaken.

There is enough time for Sylvanas to Meddle behind the Scenes, afaik sylvanas Plans/Machinations were never actually confirmed, and vague. So she might have helped the Jailer in "Breaking Death".

Source: https://wow.gamepedia.com/Timeline_(unofficial)

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Heck her own death could be an indication, the first time she died she tasted paradise, the second time it was the maw at a time she had not yet racked up such a kill count that would justify such damnation, heck Kael'thas did not end up in the maw and he was on board with the legion at the end.

This is Interesting. Maybe the Old LichKing broke Death?

IIrc Sylvanas died first before Arthas became the Lichking.

[Combatbutler]

I'd like to point out the part in my post, that you quoted, that says "helped happen". As for the "how", do you really think it's that unthinkable? I mean, we learned Silvanas made a deal with Helya back in Legion, and we learn she also had a deal with Azshara in this expansion. And now we know she has a third deal going, this time with the Jailer. So it's not that big of a leap of logic to assume she might have other deals going on that we don't know about.

Yeah, I find it incredible unlikely, since this is just so beyond her paygrade, someone who couldn't even subdue the valkyr queen is suddenly able to actually deliver on her deals, all she seemed to be able to do is cause death so that more souls get over there more quickly, because the whole thing was already broken, so that her benefactor could get more power.

Also, regarding her "breaking one of the cosmic forces would make absolutely zero sense": she just ripped in half, bare-handed, an artifact so powerful that, when destroyed, literally broke the barrier between life and death.

Poking a hole in the veil is still a far cry from actually breaking the whole plane.

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This is Interesting. Maybe the Old LichKing broke Death?

IIrc Sylvanas died first before Arthas became the Lichking.

I doubt it, the lich king is a second rate death entity created by the legion, such a small fry should not be able to mess with death to that degree to be honest.

[Ielenia]

Poking a hole in the veil is still a far cry from actually breaking the whole plane.

Is it? I'd imagine that breaking the barrier between the mortal plane and the Shadowlands to be a pretty big deal, especially doing it bare-handed. I'd say Sylvanas is more than capable to have helped engineer whatever is going on in the Shadowlands.

[Combatbutler]

Is it? I'd imagine that breaking the barrier between the mortal plane and the Shadowlands to be a pretty big deal, especially doing it bare-handed. I'd say Sylvanas is more than capable to have helped engineer whatever is going on in the Shadowlands.

That stuff happened for years, she helped by getting people killed quicker, who all went to the maw, because the whole thing was already broken. I simply can't see anything she could have done to help break a realm that predates the titans. She simply is too much of a small fry, same for the original lich king. Compared to that realm they are literally nothing.

[Ielenia]

That stuff happened for years, she helped by getting people killed quicker, who all went to the maw, because the whole thing was already broken. I simply can't see anything she could have done to help break a realm that predates the titans. She simply is too much of a small fry, same for the original lich king. Compared to that realm they are literally nothing.

We don't know that.

Again, perhaps all she did was feed souls into the "broken machine", but perhaps she also helped engineer its breakdown. We don't know.

[LanToaster]

I doubt it, the lich king is a second rate death entity created by the legion, such a small fry should not be able to mess with death to that degree to be honest.

Uhhm, it was actually never clear how Powerfull the Lichking actually was. I actually would not think that the LichKing is a "Second Rate" death Entity. The Legion saw it fit to Actually Trap him and Limit his Power before they let him loose. (From which he actually freed himself).

If he was "Second Rate", he would not be able to steal Souls from the Other Death Entities.

[Vladier]

As @Mehrunes already pointed out, Ion directly stated in yesterday's panel that the eternal Damnation thing started years ago. This means that, as much as you want to pin it on her, it's not Sylvanas' doing. Sylvanas' actions will lead to us stopping this shit from happening anymore, so Blizzard basically sets her up to save everyone from this shit eternity of torture.

It says "for the past few years", not "years ago". Which indicates a far more recent development than, say, the Lich King's death.

I'd say that while Sylvanas may not be able to break the balance, the Jailor is most likely in league with the power that did. Sylvanas "merely" helped him grow his realm, wittingly at that. And if the perpetrator is not the Jailor himself, then someone who employs both him and Sylvanas, as they are stated to be working as equals.

Consider for the moment that Vol'Jin's spirit only recently was lost to Bwonsamdi and saved by someone else. Considering that Bwonsamdi appears to work under the Arbiter's system, it would be weird for him not to lose souls to the Maw as well.

[Sangris]

Uhhm, it was actually never clear how Powerfull the Lichking actually was. I actually would not think that the LichKing is a "Second Rate" death Entity. The Legion saw it fit to Actually Trap him and Limit his Power before they let him loose. (From which he actually freed himself).

If he was "Second Rate", he would not be able to steal Souls from the Other Death Entities.

Blizzard stated that The Lich King would lose to Lei Shen in a 1on1, people need to stop acting like he's that omnipotent superbeing. And I'm pretty sure an ancient Death Entity that even predates the titans is much stronger than Lei Shen.

[1know]

I guess u r right, but we are going there to save them all

[Combatbutler]

We don't know that.

Again, perhaps all she did was feed souls into the "broken machine", but perhaps she also helped engineer its breakdown. We don't know.

I ask you again how would a small fry like sylvanas be able to influence the actual cosmic reality of death for the entire universe? Such a change should only be able from within, anything else is absolutely retarded and if blizz intends to go down that route then they will start out with worse storytelling than bfa already was.

Sylvanas being and opportunistic,piece of work is fine, her being strong enough to actively breaking down the realm of death form a single world? Ludicrous.

[Arrashi]

Hah, those knife-ears deserved much worse.

[Combatbutler]

Uhhm, it was actually never clear how Powerfull the Lichking actually was. I actually would not think that the LichKing is a "Second Rate" death Entity. The Legion saw it fit to Actually Trap him and Limit his Power before they let him loose. (From which he actually freed himself).

If he was "Second Rate", he would not be able to steal Souls from the Other Death Entities.

Just because you can steal bread crumbs doesn't make you a real death entity, the lich king was a parasite, outside of the shadow lands leeching on the souls he could get his hands on, the shadowlands are being flooded by billions of souls each and every moment it is the afterlife for the entire universe, not just azeroth.

[VladlTutushkin]

Hah, those knife-ears deserved much worse.

Not very original.