There's no choice in Covenants - they will be min-maxed anyway

[Halyon]

So what, everything will, with no exception. I think all of them look interesting, and replayability to off-set the otherwise rather stringent focus on endgame is nice, in my opinion.

[Sagenod]

I think the pool of abilities should be mechanically the same across all four Covenants, but aesthetically distinct based on which one you choose. Allow people to choose which ability to use when in rested areas, making it the active one and the others unavailable until you change again. You could still spend Anima Points, or AP (how unique) to upgrade all the abilities.

[Mojo03]

Most people will just take what they like. None of it will be gamechangingly essential. So for most people there is choice.

[Melchior]

I'm not going to let my choice be dictated that way.

Everything can be min-maxed. It's up to you to determine how much you are affected by it.

I sure as hell won't care about a small difference between various types of content or going from boss to boss. I'll be better at some, worse at others, so what? I don't log on different characters for every boss because some classes are x% better; I work with what I have.

Unless you're pushing world firsts or something (which is also a choice), it won't matter. There's never going to be such a thing as no theorycrafting, so just have fun with it.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

That's not true. There are lots of situational talents. There are many classes that have niche utility that are great for certain encounters. There are some classes that are OP overall for a raid tier or a whole expansion or several but as bosses get nerfed it tends to get fine and WoW has had better balance in general than most other RPGs and MMOs.

This is a situation in which your character gets soft locked into a covenant which is always going to be significantly mathematically superior for a certain niche within a certain spec and not others. The gaps if the example abilities stay the same are massive, probably to the point to a 5%+ damage gap. Guilds will expect you to pick the covenant that amplifies you niche the most, and swing healers and swing tanks will just have to suck it up or grind out covenant changes every week or whatever.

No it doesn't matter as much for the people who are playing on the chill difficulties. But this aggravation in this system is just pointless and hopefully it will be changed but judging from the lack of change in BFA from alpha until the massive negative feedback from the launch being hopeful about this would be unwise.

Yes classes have niche's and utility's that vary and some are better then others over all, there is no reason to think covenants won't be the same and you are even more so locked into your class then any of the covenants.

[Lionwoman]

I really don't care at all for the abilities as for now. Just on the looks

[Sagenod]

Or they'll take the one with the aesthetic that appeals to them the most. I know that's all that matters to me.

Same goes for talents, class customization, soulbinds... pretty much everything involving player agency

I am also of this camp. I always go for interest in detail rather than overall performance. If I played BFA at all I would have continued to main arcane, in spite of how bad it's been. That's because I really enjoy arcane, definitely a more niche spec but it's concept is interesting and it's also the best neon lightshow in the game.

[VinceVega]

lol, this is just going to be
covenant x= best raid dps
covenant y= pvp
covenant z= best mystic dungeon/5man
etc.

just another cookie cutter system. they will figure it all out in beta.

locking abilities behind one choice faction decisions is the dumbest thing ive seen blizz do in awhile.
immediately turned me off to the whole direction of the expansion.

No it is not. Because some abilities which are good for a frost DK are probably not so good for a Moonkin. Also there are way more things you need to look at than just the two talents. (Soulbinds for example)

Atop trying to min/max everything. If you want to, great for you. Let the choices be for the poeple who don't care about that stuff too much. I am i a okish Mythic raiding guild. No one says anything if you skill diffferent than the min/max system tells you as long as you pull your weight ( not doing MAX dps in every situation)

This problem is entirely player made. There is no way to intruduce systems that actually have a gameplay effect without poeple min/maxing it. And i and many more want that. Many don't. Ok but it is still are role playing game. Do i take the coventant with maybe not the best DPS troughput but better survivability?

These systems give flavour.

[SynDethroc]

Uh, no?? I'm going to join the vampires REGARDLESS of the abilities they give me. They're VAMPIRES.

[Adamas102]

People will take the one with the mathematically best skills and that's it. I don't get why Blizzard thinks this gives choice to the players. It absolutely does not. Especially with this 'you can only choose one, so choose wisely' crap. This will only make me look up a guide on what's providing the best DPS/HPS/Utility.

Am I missing something here or is this system a really dumb idea?

Min-maxers need to realize and come to terms with the fact that the way they play doesn't lend itself to choice. There will always be a mathematically best option. For the other 99% of players, there will be choice between which abilities we want, which story we like, and which cosmetics we prefer. Seems like a pretty nice array of choices so far.

[Vyomesh2]

If a game has stats and choices there will always be a "BiS" choice. Someone will calculate the numbers, and then the guides will go up telling you what to pick. It's unavoidable.

[melzas]

What I expect is:

LFM ToP +17 need prot war, only bastion conv, else GTFO

or

SoA +15, dk 405ilvl joins
Jhonnydk says: hi guys!
Demonhunterrxxx says: (group leader) what conv?
Jhonnydk says: raven
Jhonnydk has been removed from the group

[KaPe]

What I expect is:

LFM ToP +17 need prot war, only bastion conv, else GTFO

or

SoA +15, dk 405ilvl joins
Jhonnydk says: hi guys!
Demonhunterrxxx says: (group leader) what conv?
Jhonnydk says: raven
Jhonnydk has been removed from the group

And then, one hour later, they finally realize they're wasting their time waiting for "perfect" Covenant, when the difference is marginal anyway. You're not getting free Shroud with one of them and completely useless crap in the other three.

[Sagenod]

What I expect is:

LFM ToP +17 need prot war, only bastion conv, else GTFO

or

SoA +15, dk 405ilvl joins
Jhonnydk says: hi guys!
Demonhunterrxxx says: (group leader) what conv?
Jhonnydk says: raven
Jhonnydk has been removed from the group

Is that short for... Convent?

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

If you're a slave to IcyVeins that's not on Blizzard, that's on you. And I really hope Shadowlands and Classic convinces Blizzard to stop designing their game around IcyVeins players and instead design it around the people who play it normally.

[Kharum]

Yeah, this is my issue with those unique abilities stuff.

[Stormbornsham]

People will take the one with the mathematically best skills and that's it. I don't get why Blizzard thinks this gives choice to the players. It absolutely does not. Especially with this 'you can only choose one, so choose wisely' crap. This will only make me look up a guide on what's providing the best DPS/HPS/Utility.

Am I missing something here or is this system a really dumb idea?

That will depend on people choosing to play the META or play the game the way they f*ing want.

[Teddyfish]

lol, this is just going to be
covenant x= best raid dps
covenant y= pvp
covenant z= best mystic dungeon/5man
etc.

just another cookie cutter system. they will figure it all out in beta.

locking abilities behind one choice faction decisions is the dumbest thing ive seen blizz do in awhile.
immediately turned me off to the whole direction of the expansion.

What is best raid dps btw?
Single Target? Cleave? AoE?? Consistant damage? Constant Low Burst windows? Rare High Burst windows??

Raidbots is used to optimise your gear and help you plan what you want to aim for when it come to gearing. If you've done any high end content you know full well you don't blindly follow a pathwork sim on every fight or an AoE sim for Mythic+.
Mechanics and timings of fights have always chosen your talents/traits/essences/gear. And often through the years you've changed per fight if you truly want to min-max.

Each covenant and then to an extant the 1 of 3 Soulbind talent tree you gain have the potential, if deep enough to make a spec shine in a different aspect. Same as classes shine in different aspects.
Although FoTM crowds exist, at least from personal experience of over 10 years of Heroic/Mythic raiding that crowd is actually very small.

All that said, i'll always have a slight dislike of any form of abilites/class procs coming from outside my class design.

[Melchior]

What I expect is:

LFM ToP +17 need prot war, only bastion conv, else GTFO

or

SoA +15, dk 405ilvl joins
Jhonnydk says: hi guys!
Demonhunterrxxx says: (group leader) what conv?
Jhonnydk says: raven
Jhonnydk has been removed from the group

Then make your own group. Don't play with players that care more about shortchanging your and their choices than actually having fun.

If mythic isn't beatable with any choice of covenant, that will be fixed. Otherwise, it's up to YOU how much you want to let it affect you.

[Life-Binder]

nope, I will choose based on armor visuals and the mount