Mega-Thread: Gun Control Thread

[Zan15]

I would think a individual's right to defend themselves would be a fundamental right every society would agree on. It is the extent of what way we can, that divides the US from most other countries. I think Guatemala is the only other country in the world which grants it's citizens the right to keep and bear arms.

The controlling governments would much rather have a populace that is not armed or at least, not armed very well. The criminals certainly would rather have a disarmed citizenry.

For myself, the Second Amendment grants every citizen the right to use firearms for self defense, which in turn enables the weaker ones to better accomplish that. Therefore, the right to self defense is more logical for a larger portion of the populace.

For myself, the Second Amendment grants every citizen the right to use firearms for self defense

That is not what the Second says or does.


Also the fundamental right is to defend yourself, not the right to own guns.

I

The controlling governments would much rather have a populace that is not armed or at least, not armed very well. The criminals certainly would rather have a disarmed citizenry.
.

vs the govt even with all that you can buy today, you are not anywhere near being "armed very well".

[zenkai]

vs the govt even with all that you can buy today, you are not anywhere near being "armed very well".

Guess we need to allow citizens to buy more advance military hardware then. I don't see your angle here, unless your going for "Well you can't do nothing anyway so might as well give up your guns" because if that's your angel that's a shit argument.

[Ghostpanther]

Detroit Police Chief, feels more citizens should be armed....https://www.charlesmphipps.net/detro...le-carry-guns/

The Detroit News: “When we look at the good community members who have concealed weapons permits, the likelihood they’ll shoot is based on a lack of confidence in this Police Department,” Craig said at a press conference at police headquarters, adding that he thinks more Detroit citizens feel safer, thanks in part to a 7 percent drop in violent crime in 2013.

Craig said he started believing that legal gun owners can deter crime when he became police chief in Portland, Maine, in 2009.

“Coming from California (Craig was on the Los Angeles police force for 28 years), where it takes an act of Congress to get a concealed weapon permit, I got to Maine, where they give out lots of CCWs (carrying concealed weapon permits), and I had a stack of CCW permits I was denying; that was my orientation.

“I changed my orientation real quick. Maine is one of the safest places in America. Clearly, suspects knew that good Americans were armed.”

Craig’s statements Thursday echoed those he made Dec. 19 on “The Paul W. Smith Show” on WJR (760 AM), when he said: “There’s a number of CPL (concealed pistol license) holders running around the city of Detroit. I think it acts as a deterrent. Good Americans with CPLs translates into crime reduction. I learned that real quick in the state of Maine.”

[Rozz]

“I changed my orientation real quick. Maine is one of the safest places in America. Clearly, suspects knew that good Americans were armed.”

That says more bad than good to me. It's like plugging the holes in a leaky boat, without ever changing the rotting wood.

Still floats I guess.

[Ghostpanther]

That says more bad than good to me. It's like plugging the holes in a leaky boat, without ever changing the rotting wood.

Still floats I guess.

The same logic he is expressing using Maine, can be used for Vermont. Which is also a very safe state to live in and has had some of the most lax gun laws in the Union since 1969. Several states have recently passed laws loosening restrictions on conceal carry ( no license needed for such ) and despite the doomsayers predicting a large increase in gun death's, those have not happened since the new laws have taken place.

The criminals are going to get access to firearms in the US, because tens of millions are out there in circulation. So would you rather not be armed if a criminal is? Also, not everyone is young and strong. How does a weaker or handicapped person defend themselves from a much stronger attacker? Any weapon is better than none, but a firearm is the best equalizer.

[Rozz]

The same logic he is expressing using Maine, can be used for Vermont. Which is also a very safe state to live in and has had some of the most lax gun laws in the Union since 1969. Several states have recently passed laws loosening restrictions on conceal carry ( no license needed for such ) and despite the doomsayers predicting a large increase in gun death's, those have not happened since the new laws have taken place.

The criminals are going to get access to firearms in the US, because tens of millions are out there in circulation. So would you rather not be armed if a criminal is? Also, not everyone is young and strong. How does a weaker or handicapped person defend themselves from a much stronger attacker? Any weapon is better than none, but a firearm is the best equalizer.

That's why I call it rotting wood. It's a situation that has no simple solution, so instead we build on top of it. It's just unfortunate how out of hand things have gotten.

[Ghostpanther]

That's why I call it rotting wood. It's a situation that has no simple solution, so instead we build on top of it. It's just unfortunate how out of hand things have gotten.

The solution should not include infringing upon the Constitutional rights of the citizens to arm themselves for self defense. The core of the issue of crimes being committed by firearms is not guns ( which is just a tool being used ) but several other social and economical reasons. I do agree there is no simple and cheap solution.

[Xi Jinping]

I dont get the facination about guns, seems super dangerous to me and I wouldnt feel safe if people in my community was armed

[Ghostpanther]

I dont get the facination about guns, seems super dangerous to me and I wouldnt feel safe if people in my community was armed

Some people feel safer if they are or others are armed. I have had firearms for decades and shoot them often. But each to his own. Most people in our country do not carry them when they are out in public. Roughly only 10 - 12% on average do across the nation. Varies depending on the state.

[zenkai]

I dont get the facination about guns, seems super dangerous to me and I wouldnt feel safe if people in my community was armed

Most gun violence happens in poor urban areas, that's why most of us don't worry about it. I wouldn't feel safe in those areas even if guns didn't exist.

[Ghostpanther]

Most gun violence happens in poor urban areas, that's why most of us don't worry about it. I wouldn't feel safe in those areas even if guns didn't exist.

That does make a huge difference. Vermont for example, has gun violence which equals many other western countries where guns are rarely carried by citizens. Yet Vermont has very lax gun laws compared to several other states.

[qikiriwa]

If you were being attacked, how would you defend yourself, instead of guns?

[Zan15]

The same logic he is expressing using Maine, can be used for Vermont. Which is also a very safe state to live in and has had some of the most lax gun laws in the Union since 1969. Several states have recently passed laws loosening restrictions on conceal carry ( no license needed for such ) and despite the doomsayers predicting a large increase in gun death's, those have not happened since the new laws have taken place.

The criminals are going to get access to firearms in the US, because tens of millions are out there in circulation. So would you rather not be armed if a criminal is? Also, not everyone is young and strong. How does a weaker or handicapped person defend themselves from a much stronger attacker? Any weapon is better than none, but a firearm is the best equalizer.

Are you trying to relate gun laws to the "safest states" because there has never been anywhere near any causation proven without major doubts that ccw has any effect in the overall crime rates. Many of the "most unsafe states" also have very lax gun laws.

if we are talking about low populated small states Alaska is a very "unsafe" state to live in with even more lax gun laws then ME or VT.

He's not using any kind of "logic" he is using his opinion.

- - - Updated - - -

Most gun violence happens in poor urban areas, that's why most of us don't worry about it. I wouldn't feel safe in those areas even if guns didn't exist.

Based on numerous studies this is not the case.

https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ties_1999-2013


Results: Most states had at least one violent or extremely violent county. Extremely violent gun counties were mostly rural, poor, predominantly minority, had high unemployment rate and homicide rate

The four levels of gun deaths were characterized by distinct socio-demographic characteristics with minority populations being
represented to a greater degree in regions with higher rates of gun death. We also showed that the relatively safe counties were less
poor, with higher household income, lower unemployment, and with largely urban counties as compared with violent and
extremely violent counties, which were predominantly rural counties


presents the percentage of each of the four levels of gun death rates represented in each state using the 15-year gun death
rates. Connecticut and Rhode Island had 100% of all counties categorized as relatively safe gun counties, and 14 states had 50% of
their counties included as the relatively safe gun counties. Seven states of Nevada, Mississippi, Alaska, Alabama, New Mexico, South
Carolina and Wyoming, and District of Columbia had no counties belonging to the relatively safe level of gun deaths. Most states
(except Connecticut and Rhode Island) had at least one county belonging to either the violent or extremely violent category.


Odd to see CT on that list with its urban area's and gun laws.

[Ghostpanther]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/permitles...carry-oklahoma

A "constitutional carry" gun law in Oklahoma took effect Friday. Also known as permitless carry, the law lets some Oklahomans carry a firearm in public without a license.

Most Oklahomans 21 and older can now carry concealed or unconcealed firearms without having gone through a background check or training requirements, with exceptions for those illegally in the country or who have been convicted of certain crimes.

There are at least 14 states that have some version of a permitless carry law, according to the National Rifle Association (NRA).

And the list keeps growing. A similar bill is in the stages of consideration for presentation to the House members to be voted on here in Ohio. Might be voted on by next Spring.

[Mayhem]

https://www.foxnews.com/us/permitles...carry-oklahoma

A "constitutional carry" gun law in Oklahoma took effect Friday. Also known as permitless carry, the law lets some Oklahomans carry a firearm in public without a license.

Most Oklahomans 21 and older can now carry concealed or unconcealed firearms without having gone through a background check or training requirements, with exceptions for those illegally in the country or who have been convicted of certain crimes.

There are at least 14 states that have some version of a permitless carry law, according to the National Rifle Association (NRA).

And the list keeps growing. A similar bill is in the stages of consideration for presentation to the House members to be voted on here in Ohio. Might be voted on by next Spring.

Are you cheering this on?

WTF?

[Roxinius]

Are you cheering this on?

WTF?

why not? honestly paying the govt to exercise a right is ridiculous

[Mayhem]

why not? honestly paying the govt to exercise a right is ridiculous

Just how is anyone supposed to control for "those illegal in the country or who have been convicted of certain crimes" if there are no background checks?

Also, just certain crimes?

No wonder US police have such a hard time, they effectively have to assume that everyone is armed.

[Stormdash]

Are you cheering this on?

WTF?

Yes, should be in all 50 states.

BTW, the fact that there are already 14? You can kiss ever reaching 38 to rescind the Second Amendment outright goodbye

[PhaelixWW]

No wonder US police have such a hard time, they effectively have to assume that everyone is armed.

They don't have to assume that everyone is armed, just that criminals could be armed. Which is not really very different from anywhere.

[Roxinius]

Just how is anyone supposed to control for "those illegal in the country or who have been convicted of certain crimes" if there are no background checks?

Also, just certain crimes?

No wonder US police have such a hard time, they effectively have to assume that everyone is armed.

still have to pass a background check to purchase the firearm but by all means keep clutching your pearl necklace and crying out in horror