it sounds a lot there will be nothing to do at max öevel

[Luck4]

I think those will be the activities for Shadowlands:

Covenant Cosmetics
World Quests
Endless Dungeon
Mythic+ Dungeon
Mythic Raiding
Anima "power" farming

Did I miss something?

[Echocho]

and in BFA people complain because they cant raidlog. funny how things change.

If people want to raid log I would suggest that they have a look at Classic. If you're a raider there's literally nothing else to do in the game.

[Eapoe]

So I watched all the Blizzcon videos and interviews and I saw some interesting things in shadowlands. However, one thing that I heard really often was "we don't want you to feel obligazed to do this piece of content". They said this so often to so many different things that I really fear we are running in the next WoD were there actually IS content to do, but everything feels meaningless, because it doesn't offer relevant rewards. It sounds like everything for the week can be capped really fast and going over that punishes you with brutal grinding times.
I don't think this will end well.

Yes, because needing to sign in for things like AP is a better design than letting people play at their own pace or making you want to log in.
I enjoy WoW, but I want a game designed I want to log on and play, not need to. Also, I enjoy time away from WoW, and not having an endless grind let’s me have that without a feeling of missing out.

[TigTone]

I think those will be the activities for Shadowlands:

Covenant Cosmetics
World Quests
Endless Dungeon
Mythic+ Dungeon
Mythic Raiding
Anima "power" farming

Did I miss something?

Crafting? PvP? Level alts? Farm old content ?

This game has lots to do. Just at least here on mmo champ it’s all garage and waste of time.

I don’t know why they just don’t quit forever. They are always disappointed every single year.

[Laqweeta]

What if I want to raid, or do M+, or do Torghast, or level an alt, or do PVP, or work on my soulbinds, or work on my covenant

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Mission failed, we'll get 'em next time

I would love to know which part of my posts blames players though

So raid once a week.
I'm sure you'll get burnt out on M+ like most do after a good dozen runs.
We don't know what Torghast will be like, knowing Activision, it can't be any good.
Level an alt, lol.
PvP, sure, see M+.
Covenant is likely to be a HUGE grind, can guarantee it.

So have fun with the mobile game.

[oland138]

I honestly don't get this. New raid, dungeons and pvp. This stuff has been the core of wow for years, and the expansion will have new content. Most new big features fall flat in expansions - the only one that didn't really fall flat was m+. Would a new feature like Islands or warfronts make it better? No.

How is having the same stuff that pretty much any other era of wow have give you the idea that there will be nothing to do? The expansion is literally going to give you brand new content for the core parts of the game.

[Doffen]

Do I win the lottery on saturday?

There will probably be something to do at max level outside of raiding and dungeons, and pvp, and WQs, and pet battles, and other stuff like the, I don't know, THE TOWER! Let's wait and see first perhaps! And don't give me the "let's wait until alpha etc" bullcrap :P

[Omedon]

Here's the thing:

Over-regulation is an ever-looming threat. Games these days, especially those as ubiquitous as WoW cannot incentivize "live in our world all day, every day" as its core product. Classic is an anomaly here because it's not a core product, it's there to protect IP and to scratch a notably outdated itch. But MMOs like WoW can't actually give us "too many reasons" to play "unhealthily."

The loop is "daily" emissaries, optional weekly lockouts, and other such things. We're not supposed to, or at least can't be encouraged to do more than that because then the law steps in.

And to add to that, they're encouraging alts this expansion. The single character player that wants to play all day and advance is no longer supported, at all, at least not for non-pro players.

[Belloc]

How is Torghast (a rogue-like endless dungeon with changing affixes) not max level content? It also gives you resources to build a legendary weapon of your choice, with your own bonuses. I mean hello, if this ain't reward enough then what is? Also, m+ and all that shit that WoD didn't have is still in the game.

Criticism is fine, its healthy, but when you criticize things that are just completely false there's an agenda behind it, and that is what pisses people off, try stay objective, please.

As someone who had to quit in BFA because all of the stuff I wanted to do (Raiding, Mythic+) took too long (my wife complained a lot), Torghast immediately drew me in and made me decide that I was going to play this expansion. Torghast sounds like exactly the kind of content that this game has needed for a very long time.

[Kyphael]

A little bit early with that prediction, Nostradamus. Let's wait until we actually see what content there is to do at max level before we start complaining that there isn't enough of it.

In other words, "fork over that new expansion money so we can report strong release sales numbers, then abandon Shadowlands and announce Light/Void expansion." Because you know, Blizzcon isn't supposed to show us what we're getting and convince us it's any good. It's just a big ass three day commercial.

[Laqweeta]

- multiple characters
- subjective
- absolutely 0 basis
- dumb answer
- subjective
- again, absolutely 0 basis


Just because you wrongly think the game is comparable to a mobile game, doesn't make it so.

I know people aren't born absolutely fucking retarded, so I forgive you.

This "version" of WoW is ABSOLUTELY comparable to a mobile game.

What's the difference of these WQs compared to a fucking bakery game on the app store?

1. Log in
2. "Bake" a cake that takes 24 hours

Vs. WoW.

1. Log in
2. Do WQ
3. Wait for 24 hours for WQs to reset, and do them again.

This is HALF of the content in WoW.

[Zarvel]

So I watched all the Blizzcon videos and interviews and I saw some interesting things in shadowlands. However, one thing that I heard really often was "we don't want you to feel obligazed to do this piece of content". They said this so often to so many different things that I really fear we are running in the next WoD were there actually IS content to do, but everything feels meaningless, because it doesn't offer relevant rewards. It sounds like everything for the week can be capped really fast and going over that punishes you with brutal grinding times.
I don't think this will end well.

1. Tower of the damned - Legendaries - You'd want to do this
2. M+ - efficient gear farm - you'd want to do this
3. Raids - of course you want this
4. PvP - you may want to do it
5. Covenant campaigns + progression + unlocks - I'm guessing you'd want to do that
6. WQs + Weekly events - Day-to-day stuff you want to/need to do
7. Alt-friendliness cranked to a 11 - gives you more of a reason to try new/other classes at max level

This is not counting player-generated content.

What else do you want? Do you really have SO MUCH time to play in a week that all of that content listed above is still falling short of your expectations? Come on now. Complaining just for the sake of complaining is petty.
They didn't need to announce much end-game stuff because :
1) The game is still well over a Year away so there may still be stuff in development they were not ready to reveal
2) Some of the end-game stuff is already well established and does not need a new coat of paint in this expansion.... (like m+...ofc there's gonna be new affixes, wait and see what they come up with down the road)

[Marxman]

It sounds like everything for the week can be capped really fast

This is how the game worked for over a decade. It's better than the alternative of infinite AP grinding.

[Accendor]

Maybe you should play because it is fun, not because there's some reward. Have you ever tried that?

It's fun because there is a reward. No reward, no fun.

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But people didn't find them interesting. People chose to raid because they liked to do it. Same with battlegrounds, arena and Mythic+. Garrison invasions weren't interesting to a lot of people and so they weren't done, daily quests weren't interesting to most people so they weren't done and the same with Rep. If people hate doing WQ and only do them because they have to maybe its not the best system in the game.

They did not find them interesting, because they were not rewarding

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How is Torghast (a rogue-like endless dungeon with changing affixes) not max level content? It also gives you resources to build a legendary weapon of your choice, with your own bonuses. I mean hello, if this ain't reward enough then what is? Also, m+ and all that shit that WoD didn't have is still in the game.

Criticism is fine, its healthy, but when you criticize things that are just completely false there's an agenda behind it, and that is what pisses people off, try stay objective, please.

I mean first of all it's debatable of course is rogue like is a good concept to begin eith, but I guess a lot of people enjoy it, so why not give it s try? That being said, from the interviews it sounded öike there is a very easily reachable softcsp on either Thorgast progression OR rewards. If that is not the csse, I am happy and there is no problem of course, its just not what they were saying.

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Ohhhhhh..it is THIS kind of thread. You are the guy who knows what everybody and nobody did. Funny...I didn't raid and still was doing stuff, guess I am nobody.

Not saying that WoD wasn't pissing people off, but it would be cool if this generalisations about what people do and don't do goes away. Hell..right off the bat I can tell you there are people who only do pvp and don't give a toss a bout 5 mans, rep, raids or even flying.

But trying to just look at it impassively: We are 10 months away from the game and you have no clue when and what stuff we will get in patches. Did you predict everything that would end up on Cata / Legion etc on the day of the announcement?

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I have been there again and again over the years. People will just say "This is not content" and leave you with this. But I would be glad if somebody explains there stance.

I mean, we already had the guy saying that ironically "INB4 WQs are content" - imho ironically implying they are not. So I am always happy when somebody explains when something is content and when it is not.

That is just because people can't read. I never said there is no content, I said that I fear it might be finished (for the week) very quickly.

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they are repeating WoD fiasco where "content" meant stuff to do only for hardcore playerbase

its basicly return to "Raid or die" mentality with 0 content for casual crowd.

how it will end up we already seen in WoD when 5 mln people left game in first 6 months. Now they will repeat this "succes" in 1 month because people know better.

basickly Shadowlands is dead expansion before its arrival.

Also the hardcore playerbase had nothing to do WoD except raiding.

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did we watched the same panel?
you got everything relevant now + an endless dungeons that grants custom legendary crafts lol

Except you did not. AP, as much as many people hated it, was a meaningfull progression system that gave you something to do. I understand it was flawed and not perfect, but its gone now and will leave a hole.

[HCLM]

So I watched all the Blizzcon videos and interviews and I saw some interesting things in shadowlands. However, one thing that I heard really often was "we don't want you to feel obligazed to do this piece of content". They said this so often to so many different things that I really fear we are running in the next WoD were there actually IS content to do, but everything feels meaningless, because it doesn't offer relevant rewards. It sounds like everything for the week can be capped really fast and going over that punishes you with brutal grinding times.
I don't think this will end well.

M+, Achievements, PvP, Collections, Tower with infinite levels, Raids, Covenants, Maw and whatever it brings. Yeah I am sure there will be nothing to do at max lvl...

[Dakara]

The next expansion is clearly not aimed at you, neither LEGION or BfA. If you want a dead game with zero endgame, there is allways classic for your needs. For regular players the LEGION/BFA model worked out great and thats why blizzard did not change anything in the announcements for Shadowlands

Zero Endgame? Then what are Raids, PvP and Mythic+ ? Do you honestly consider AP/Essence grinds "Endgame?"

And I did watch Ion's interview, it would appear they're changing a lot. Also in his interview with Bay and Mike (Preach) he specifically stated they want to remove the "daily grind" from the Power Progression, making it more optional.

[Venziir]

Thats tte whole isue. There WAS stuff to do, but nobody did it, as it was completely meaningless (e.g. Garrison invasions, daily quests and reputations)

There were no daily quests in WoD though, because of how much people whined about the dailies in MoP.

[PalliesThrowStuff]

So I watched all the Blizzcon videos and interviews and I saw some interesting things in shadowlands. However, one thing that I heard really often was "we don't want you to feel obligazed to do this piece of content". They said this so often to so many different things that I really fear we are running in the next WoD were there actually IS content to do, but everything feels meaningless, because it doesn't offer relevant rewards. It sounds like everything for the week can be capped really fast and going over that punishes you with brutal grinding times.
I don't think this will end well.

Well, as long as we aren't punished for having multiple alts, I'll be happy.

Endgame has always been a bleak, featureless chore that only appeals to the min-maxing number hogs, and hiding the meat of the story behind it is a design decision that has bitten Blizzard in the ass over and over in their attempts to appeal to the bleeding edge of competitive progression at the expense of the overall narrative and the larger portion of their playerbase.

The way of the future is for most or all rewards in the game to behave similarly to the Essence system, a specific reward for a specific activity.

[Amerissis]

Ok.. If an ingame example dosen't work, How about a real life example?

Your boss comes in and tells you "Hey Amerissis, We are gonna stop paying your salary starting next month"

Do you keep working there without pay because you like working there or Do you quit because the reason you worked was the Salary?

It's the same concept as i've been describing but with real life words instead of ingame words this time.

As you said. You do the work for the work, Not for the salary.

Not quite the same, because I can’t live without the reward of work, so I don’t work just for fun. Usually you work for the reward and try to get a job that you like, or at least not hate. If I didn’t need the money, I would still work, although it would be something I really love.

A game, however, you play solely to have fun (often to escape reality, including work), so why on earth would you do something for fun that isn’t fun?

[toffmcsoft]

Stick with your out of date model, we'll stick with a game being made in 2020 thanks

When a game being made in 2019/2020 IE: BFA that's being outperformed by a game made 15 years ago.
A lot is to be said.