Leaked audio of Richard Spencer reacting to the murder of Heather Heyer

[PACOX]

Yeah, I have. White supremacism =/= Neo-nazism.

That's not what I said. I said white nationalism is the unifier...

[Freighter]

That's not what I said. I said white nationalism is the unifier...

But neo-nazi =/= White supremacist. If they are white nationalist, they are white nationalist, not neo-nazis. Under nazism white people not of germanic descent were to be subject to extermination. That doesn't work with white nationalism. They're at odds with each other.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

But neo-nazi =/= White supremacist. If they are white nationalist, they are white nationalist, not neo-nazis. White people not of germanic descent were determined to be subject to extermination under it. That doesn't work with white nationalism. They're at odds with each other.

You're ignoring the NEO part, meaning New... meaning they can refine themselves to mean more than that.

He was also talking about commonalities, which you are ignoring, or course.

Its also bizarre that you are defending white nationalists and nazis,

[PACOX]

But neo-nazi =/= White supremacist. If they are white nationalist, they are white nationalist, not neo-nazis.

The point of this little tangent was and is that what unifies neo-nazis is their white nationalism. All white nationalist are not Neo Nazis, all neo-nazis are white nationalists. If you believe otherwise then congratulations, you fell for their propaganda.

[Freighter]

The point of this little tangent was and is that what unifies neo-nazis is their white nationalism. All white nationalist are not Neo Nazis, all neo-nazis are white nationalists. If you believe otherwise then congratulations, you fell for their propaganda.

Holy shit, neo-nazis cannot be white nationalists. They seek to restore nazism. Nazi ideology dictated that white people who weren't of germanic descent should be exterminated because they were untermensch. They are incompatible with each other, white nationalists would be fighting for the white people who were to be exterminated.

[GreenJesus]

But Communist don't have a platform of subjugation, exiling/dislodging, and extermination of minorities like Nazis do. The Nazi platform is all built around White supremacy and the subjugation of minorities.

Are we ignoring China here ??? Hello?

[Freighter]

Are we ignoring China here ??? Hello?

Vietnam, North Korea, Laos and Cambodia too.

[Endus]

Holy shit, neo-nazis cannot be white nationalists. They seek to restore nazism. Nazi ideology dictated that white people who weren't of germanic descent should be exterminated because they were untermensch. They are incompatible with each other, white nationalists would be fighting for the white people who were to be exterminated.

This is just factually incorrect.

To the Nazis, Aryans were the only real "whites"; everyone else had debased themselves with intermingling with other subgroups.

The concept of "whiteness" is ever-changing and doesn't actually mean anything. In the early 20th Century, Italians and Irish weren't "white" in the USA. Today, Spaniards aren't. It's just a way to identify an "in" group, to justify attacking everyone outside of it.

[PC2]

It's still okay to punch Nazis in the face, kids.

Nope, initiating physical violence is both illegal and immoral.

Of course, if the Nazi initiated the physical violence then yes punch them or put them into a chokehold until the police arrive.

[P for Pancetta]

I see someone doesn't know what the Tolerance Paradox is and why making the leap from "don't be tolerant of fascists" to "don't be tolerant of Jews/Gays/etc." is kinda stupid.

That's not how that works...

Being intolerant towards intolerance can be achieved without breaking down the cornerstones of society. Nothing justifies extrajudicial punishment towards anyone regardless of their points of view or actions.

Secondly there is a point to protecting the right's of those who you don't agree with. because despite them representing everything you despise the rights that protect them are the same rights that protect you. If one of those people chooses to cross the line there exists a judicial system to punish them for their wrongdoings.

While in certain cases fighting Nazism in the streets would be a viable and commendable solution. For people in the USA is isn't, the country is stable and there are no large internal problems threatening to destabilize the country. Thus taking the law into your hands in order to enact vigilant justice upon those you disagree with is in no way, shape or form better then running around being a neo-nazi idiot, and in the case the neo-nazi's are non violent it's actually worse.

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

[Cerilis]

Wtf is even going on in here.

I take it that @Freighter is saying that you shouldn't advocate violence even against Nazis (as long as they are not violent themselves). And if that's the case, I definitely got her back.
Condemning violence against them doesn't mean you have to tolerate them. They are other ways to show that without stepping down to that level, geez.

[Freighter]

Wtf is even going on in here.

I take it that @Freighter is saying that you shouldn't advocate violence even against Nazis (as long as they are not violent themselves). And if that's the case, I definitely got her back.
Condemning violence against them doesn't mean you have to tolerate them. They are other ways to show that without stepping down to that level, geez.

Yep, but that apparently makes you a nazi sympathizer, lmao.

[PC2]

But neo-nazi =/= White supremacist. If they are white nationalist, they are white nationalist, not neo-nazis. Under nazism white people not of germanic descent were to be subject to extermination. That doesn't work with white nationalism. They're at odds with each other.

Correct, or at least that's how I was taught in my school's segment on the the Holocaust. The teacher explained Hitler's ideology to us and how he still would have enslaved/murdered non-German WASPs like myself.

[Grapemask]

Why do these threads always inevitably turn to American conservatives finding ways to rationalize white supremacy, or compartmentalize certain types of white supremacy or naziism to be acceptable?

Jesus fucking christ. I was conservative for 25 years and I never would have stooped so low as to find even a sparkling of a way to legitimize a Nazi. Get your shit together.

[Dsonsion]

Correct, or at least that's how I was taught in my school's segment on the the Holocaust. The teacher explained Hitler's ideology to us and how he still would have enslaved/murdered non-German WASPs like myself.

Sooner or later, yes, because Fascism needs to create enemies to survive. But Hitler had a great respect for American WASPs and received a great amount of support from them.

[Teleros]

That's not what I said. I said white nationalism is the unifier...

Meh. White nationalism (a nonsensical term in the first place) has sod all to do with Mean Mr Moustache's ideology. I mean, when Step 1 involves, as a best case scenario, deporting the millions of white people like Poles, Slavs, Russians et al you don't kill when your conquer their homelands... I'm not really sure "whiteanything" is the right phrase. "Teutonic supremacism" or "German imperialism" seems a much more accurate description. Given that, Hitler would probably be horrified by the modern neo-nazis, at least insofar as they want any kind of unified white society where Germans, Frenchmen, Russians and all sorts are all equally white.

Oh and then there's the conflation of white supremacy and white nationalism. If words are to mean anything, then nationalism =/= supremacism. If you listen to the recording, Spencer is clearly the latter - he views other races as inferiors. That's a far cry from simply viewing them as others, and wishing to maintain separation, which is what nationalism is.

But Communist don't have a platform of subjugation, exiling/dislodging, and extermination of minorities like Nazis do. The Nazi platform is all built around White supremacy and the subjugation of minorities.

Good Lord, please go read up on this stuff before typing such nonsense in the future. There's a reason the Baltic countries have such large Russian minorities, and it's not because a bunch of Russkies decided to up sticks and move there of their own free will.

For people in the USA is isn't, the country is stable and there are no large internal problems threatening to destabilize the country.

That's some stroooong stuff.

First they came for the...

God that piece of rhetorical bull has lasted a long while.

Look up the post-WW1 German civil war (Wiki calls it the "German Revolution of 1918-19"), look who was on which side, and then ask yourself why the groups Niemöller names might have been targeted. Oh, and don't forget that back in those days, people openly talked* about Bolshevism / communism as a Jewish project (eg Winston Churchill's famous article). For an awful lot of Germans, the people Niemöller is trying to generate sympathy for are the very ones who, backed by a hostile foreign government, nearly turned Germany into a communist state. Hitler was an evil, genocidal man, but unless you understand how and why he came into power we're not going to be able to avoid repeating the mistakes of the past.

Interesting thing about the author, BTW: "Niemöller was an anti-Communist and supported Adolf Hitler's rise to power at first. But when Hitler insisted on the supremacy of the state over religion, Niemöller became disillusioned." Talk about going from one extreme to the other...

*It doesn't matter for this purpose if it's objectively true or not, because this is politics. People act on their beliefs whether their beliefs are objectively true or false.

[Ripster42]

Wtf is even going on in here.

I take it that @Freighter is saying that you shouldn't advocate violence even against Nazis (as long as they are not violent themselves). And if that's the case, I definitely got her back.
Condemning violence against them doesn't mean you have to tolerate them. They are other ways to show that without stepping down to that level, geez.

Uh, that might have been their initial point, but now they're just trying to keep people from calling white supremacists neo-nazis for some reason. As if there was some meaningful distinction between the two.

[Rozz]

This thread has gotten far off track and will be closed.