Emotional Manipulation- Bad Idea for WoW?

[Zaktar]

That was the point. They wanted to show how far she’d come. How powerful she’s become.

WoW isn’t Dragonball where every cliche story narrative happens in a few seconds.

Btw - all that stuff has happened over many years since she was first tortured and murdered by Arthas.

That's fine, it can be the point that she stomps him utterly, but then you don't show it from her perspective, you show it from his. You start by emotionally connecting the audience to Bolvar, which to be fair to blizzard, how do you do that to such a nothing character... to be less fair, he's their character. Once the audience is invested in Bolvar, doesn't have to even take longer than a few seconds, then you show him get utterly wrecked by Sylvanas while we watch and root for one of his giant floating rocks to hit her. This gives us some hooks into what's happening, is the emotional manipulation a good story works on us.

Instead we follow her while she walks all over a guy and easily tears the veil of reality. Oh... okay, great?

[LuminaL]

It's pretty clear that the Bolvar/Sylvanas cinematic was designed to get the audience hating Sylvanas and wanting her to die, to hype up a confrontation with her in Shadowlands.

But as we can see in the comments everywhere, people are hating Blizzard instead. Some people think that Sylvanas will get away with everything, some people think it's a girl power fantasy, others are calling it the worst cinematic ever and swearing off the franchise.

Is it worth it to make an audience mad about the story? Because I think it's driving people away from the franchise moreso than making people want to buy to kill Sylvanas.

sylvanas getting her ass kicked then using some tricks and BD arrows on lich king at the last moment and winning the fight would have been far, far more interesting and also made me interested in killing her. it builds the tension and is much much more like sylvanas as she should be this tricky SoB who outwit her enemies as opposed to how she just use brute force these days instead and it both appeals to sylvanas fans and LK fans ( myself included ) wont be mad because their favorite lore character just got murdered in a 120PC Vs hoggar fight mode.

sylvanas going there kicking ass in a holiday morning casual style was shit writing and makes me hate blizzard

[Beefhammer]

It's pretty clear that the Bolvar/Sylvanas cinematic was designed to get the audience hating Sylvanas and wanting her to die, to hype up a confrontation with her in Shadowlands.

But as we can see in the comments everywhere, people are hating Blizzard instead. Some people think that Sylvanas will get away with everything, some people think it's a girl power fantasy, others are calling it the worst cinematic ever and swearing off the franchise.

Is it worth it to make an audience mad about the story? Because I think it's driving people away from the franchise moreso than making people want to buy to kill Sylvanas.

I have no hate for her. Kind of neat seeing a racial leader being a big thing now. The only thing I'm pissed at with story is how they did Carine wrong. Sure she may end up being the big bad, she may even be redeemed and save us all. As long as the raids and dungeons are fun.

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sylvanas getting her ass kicked then using some tricks and BD arrows on lich king at the last moment and winning the fight would have been far, far more interesting and also made me interested in killing her. it builds the tension and is much much more like sylvanas as she should be this tricky SoB who outwit her enemies as opposed to how she just use brute force these days instead and it both appeals to sylvanas fans and LK fans ( myself included ) wont be mad because their favorite lore character just got murdered in a 120PC Vs hoggar fight mode.

sylvanas going there kicking ass in a holiday morning casual style was shit writing and makes me hate blizzard

Don't see how she brute forced anything. She was clearly not going to win a physical fight with Bolvar and almost got knocked out with that last rock during the ice storm.

[CrawlFromThePit]

Lich King was just some faceless name, it was Arthas who personally denied her a simple death. It was him who taunted her, it was him who ordered her to attack her countrymen, it was him who was in her eye sight.

Still feels like unfinished business to me and the only reason she's still around. But then again, who knows what kind of weird shit they'll come up with to justify keeping her for so long.

[Yarathir]

Honestly, if anything, I hope she gets Arthas'd a second time.

[LuminaL]

Don't see how she brute forced anything. She was clearly not going to win a physical fight with Bolvar and almost got knocked out with that last rock during the ice storm.

aside from the first blow she parried , she just dodged every single attack with ease. bolvar threw 4 rocks at her and she dodged 3 and blew one like its candy then did the same thing bolvar failed to do, smashed him with a rock. which made lich king look like an useless, powerless character that got bested by an enemy trying to mimic his fight.

I noted this before, IMO blizzard could achieve the same ending with a lot better and more appealing approach by just show even tho bolvar had her ass kicked, she outsmarted him in the end. but the way they made it, did no good for audiences because honestly it was screaming "LOL EZ NUB GIT GUD" toward Lich king, and Im gonna assume you agree with me that everyone, no matter how much of a fanboy someone is, will prefer a good epic fight. Its like GoT when night king got killed by a single ambush blow by a 15y/o kid instead of a glorified battle to the death with some powerful lore characters like john brian and others.

its a waste of potential energy stored in audience when someone is built up and then twist their ankle and die because they broke their neck.

[shadowmatrix]

aside from the first blow she parried , she just dodged every single attack with ease. bolvar threw 4 rocks at her and she dodged 3 and blew one like its candy then did the same thing bolvar failed to do, smashed him with a rock. which made lich king look like an useless, powerless character that got bested by an enemy trying to mimic his fight.

If he could have chained her down he could have done the same thing, it all came to down preparation and having a plan.

[Cerus]

That's fine, it can be the point that she stomps him utterly, but then you don't show it from her perspective, you show it from his. You start by emotionally connecting the audience to Bolvar, which to be fair to blizzard, how do you do that to such a nothing character... to be less fair, he's their character. Once the audience is invested in Bolvar, doesn't have to even take longer than a few seconds, then you show him get utterly wrecked by Sylvanas while we watch and root for one of his giant floating rocks to hit her. This gives us some hooks into what's happening, is the emotional manipulation a good story works on us.

Instead we follow her while she walks all over a guy and easily tears the veil of reality. Oh... okay, great?

Because the continuing story is about her not Bolvar who’s had almost no story build up.

People don’t like it because they don’t like Sylvanas. The cinematic was beautifully done and jaw dropping impactful for everyone not on the hate bandwagon.

[Paraka]

I agree with you.

There was nothing "cinematic" about the fight.
Blizzard should have taken notes from Anime.

There was no "suffering"...there was no "battle" to surpass adversity...there was no ups and downs.
There was just...Sylvanas...

I know it was to portray Sylvie's newfound dark powers, but fuck man give Bolvar a clean hit at least once!

[october breeze]

It's pretty clear that the Bolvar/Sylvanas cinematic was designed to get the audience hating Sylvanas and wanting her to die, to hype up a confrontation with her in Shadowlands.

But as we can see in the comments everywhere, people are hating Blizzard instead. Some people think that Sylvanas will get away with everything, some people think it's a girl power fantasy, others are calling it the worst cinematic ever and swearing off the franchise.

Is it worth it to make an audience mad about the story? Because I think it's driving people away from the franchise moreso than making people want to buy to kill Sylvanas.

Here is the thing. These new incompetent writers think they are delivering a masterpiece. They actually don't know their story is shit and most of the audience hate it.

This is really sad.

Did you see anyone from writing team in the panels?? no? ... exactly!

[princeofthawest]

I agree, Blizz can redeem this cinematic rather easily by making Sylvanas having her ass handed by Bolvar or Arthas (or man I'd even be finde with Anduin).

Apart from that I have only one complaint about the cinematic: It's not gonna make people come back to the game.
Don't know about you guys, but the major reason I don't have a lot of fun in the game anymore isn't any of the bad class/AP/whatever designs but that literally everyone I knew quit the game. Asking ppl if they were hyped and would return so far more or less yields the answer "I saw the announcement but meh".

It's nice that they are trying to fix their design mistakes in Shadowlands but what was desperately needed was the Illidan/Legion effect 2.0 with the Lich King.

I'd find it hilarious if Arthas domes her a second time, though no prisoners this time.

[How dare you]

It's pretty clear that the Bolvar/Sylvanas cinematic was designed to get the audience hating Sylvanas and wanting her to die, to hype up a confrontation with her in Shadowlands.

It was? Gee, I guess I disagree then.

[Zaktar]

Because the continuing story is about her not Bolvar who’s had almost no story build up.

People don’t like it because they don’t like Sylvanas. The cinematic was beautifully done and jaw dropping impactful for everyone not on the hate bandwagon.

That's a pretty narrow view of a big group of people. I don't think I fit into your cookie cutter mold, for one. I just think watching a strong thing easily stomp a weak thing is boring.

[lionofwar87]

It's pretty clear that the Bolvar/Sylvanas cinematic was designed to get the audience hating Sylvanas and wanting her to die, to hype up a confrontation with her in Shadowlands.

But as we can see in the comments everywhere, people are hating Blizzard instead. Some people think that Sylvanas will get away with everything, some people think it's a girl power fantasy, others are calling it the worst cinematic ever and swearing off the franchise.

Is it worth it to make an audience mad about the story? Because I think it's driving people away from the franchise moreso than making people want to buy to kill Sylvanas.

What bothers me most is how out of left field shadowlands is coming. What I mean is, the reintroducton of Bolvar feels forced. Sylvanas ambiguous, supposedly selfish goals feel forced. I get it's just a story to tell and the game needs a story but this feels hollow. I feel Jaina has had better build-up to being a villian.

[Ersula]

WoW's story has always been bad or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Banshee

Indeed. Sylvanas is a gift that keeps giving us expansions premises. Beyond that fans either love her, or love to hate her, most people haven't seen the pattern yet.

"Sylvanas is a Machiavellian villain" Every time she is handed power, she relinquishes it

"Sylvanas wants to murder everyone" She is given sincere, yet unclear motivations in the game & novel, including her internal monologue.

"She broke the shadowlands" Philosophically speaking the shadowlands brings into question the moral implications of murder itself & the flawed mechanics of a caste-based afterlife system

It's like people who think all of Kylo Ren's characterization is just going to lead to him being put down like a dog. You think you want that, but it would be vastly unsatisfying.

[Trumpcat]

Listen to me when I say this:

There is literally nothing they can do, no story they can tell, no design they can come up with, no cinematic they can render with the most fantastic of computers that will make the whiny, bitching, vocal minority happy. So they just need to tell the story they want to tell because somebody, somewhere, is going to rage and bitch regardless.

And if Bolvar had won their fight, you can bet your ass that all the Sylvanas fanbois would be out in force, raging about that just as people have complained that he lost.

I didn't like the cinematic at all, not because Sylvanas won, but because it wasn't an interesting or balanced fight. She walks up with her smug little smirk and has an answer for everything he does. I don't think he should have defeated her - especially with what we know about the Jailer now - but the fight would have been more interesting if it painted at least the slightest possibility that maybe this time, she bit off more than she could chew.

So true. On this very dear forum I was called a toxic passive aggressive sexist, because apparently the problem is that Sylvanas is a girl and if she weren't a girl I wouldn't be unhappy that she beat the Lich King. The cinematic, while of breathtaking quality, missed the mark - it would have made both her fanbois and the Lich King fanbois way more thrilled if we had seen a brutal fight where she does pull out a victory but through extreme effort with her new god powers. Saurfang did a blow to her and the Lich King couldn't even touch her or disturb her smug smirk.

[Ersula]

What bothers me most is how out of left field shadowlands is coming. What I mean is, the reintroducton of Bolvar feels forced. Sylvanas ambiguous, supposedly selfish goals feel forced. I get it's just a story to tell and the game needs a story but this feels hollow. I feel Jaina has had better build-up to being a villian.

They introduced his daughter, out of left field, and considering she didn't do anything important in BFA, should have told you Bolvar would become relevant to the story very soon. Considering how often Sylvanas was talking about death the futility of her existence, the devs were pointing pretty hard at their fancy new chronicles book mapping out the Sphere of Death & the Shadowlands that exist within it. Technically, Jaina visits the Shadowlands in BFA first.

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So true. On this very dear forum I was called a toxic passive aggressive sexist, because apparently the problem is that Sylvanas is a girl and if she weren't a girl I wouldn't be unhappy that she beat the Lich King. The cinematic, while of breathtaking quality, missed the mark - it would have made both her fanbois and the Lich King fanbois way more thrilled if we had seen a brutal fight where she does pull out a victory but through extreme effort with her new god powers. Saurfang did a blow to her and the Lich King couldn't even touch her or disturb her smug smirk.

Bolvar is some turd who never did anything but suck & die. And he couldn't even do that right. That there are a score of "He should have beat Sylvanas" threads are the epitome of buffoonery.

[Skirdus]

The difference between Gul'dan and Sylvanas was that you loved to hate Gul'dan. It felt satisfying and earned when you finally got to do him in.

Sylvanas is just a character you want out of the story so that they can move on to more interesting and well-written ones. I'm really glad Shadowlands is going to be the last time I (and everyone else) have to put up with her

[Godric]

Let the haters hate. Especially the ones suffering from fragile masculinity.
MoP had a far more hated cinematic when it was new.

MOP : 20 million views 13k dislikes.
Shadowlands: 4.5 million views 33k dislikes

Sorry

Also, Sylvanas represents fragile masculinity just as much as the Bolvar leg humpers with her being the imaginary Waifu of Danuser considering he wrote himself in as Nathanos.

[WinningOne]

It's pretty clear that the Bolvar/Sylvanas cinematic was designed to get the audience hating Sylvanas and wanting her to die, to hype up a confrontation with her in Shadowlands.

But as we can see in the comments everywhere, people are hating Blizzard instead. Some people think that Sylvanas will get away with everything, some people think it's a girl power fantasy, others are calling it the worst cinematic ever and swearing off the franchise.

Is it worth it to make an audience mad about the story? Because I think it's driving people away from the franchise moreso than making people want to buy to kill Sylvanas.

Any press is good press. As long as the feelings being expressed are strong it means the person is emotionally invested in the story. Good or bad that's all Blizzard needs.