Council? Actually, Baine is the unofficial Warchief

[mickybrighteyes]

Once Baine sees that these issues we're solved by them along with the player he sees his error and welcomes them in. No doubt the other leaders would approve it. We had years of Cairne doing nothing due to the lack of development, so sure his son is a copy paste of Cairne. But at least we are seeing a version of him now if you know what I mean.

I don't really see Baine as a copy paste of Cairne anymore... Baine has rather screwed the pooch on leading horde or tauren when it comes to interacting with the alliance. Like banishing Tauren for defending themselves when they were attacked by the alliance and caving for Camp T. Or how the likes of Gann Stonespire were exiled.

It's rather poor form to give some people the same punishment Magatha got (who was the one held responsible for Cairne's death and why she was exiled) for defending themselves or wanting to take back their land from invaders.

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I'm a bit saddened people can't view Baine in good faith. I think he's an excellent leader. Trying to maintain peace with the Alliance is not folly, its the rarest thing of all in Azeroth; Common sense.

I would agree to a point... absolutely caving over his own people being attacked and punishing his people for their reaction is beyond bending over backwards for the hope of peace.

He seemingly cares more about the Horde, and its survival than any other Warchief did, including Thrall. People are still in the mindset that the Horde is just mindless brutes, and any leader that isn't a bloodthirsty tyrant is unfit to rule.

It seems more like he cares about appeasing the alliance more. His actions historically have been to get word to alliance figures more rather than safeguarding his territory.

[khalltusk]

I don't really see Baine as a copy paste of Cairne anymore... Baine has rather screwed the pooch on leading horde or tauren when it comes to interacting with the alliance. Like banishing Tauren for defending themselves when they were attacked by the alliance and caving for Camp T. Or how the likes of Gann Stonespire were exiled.

I also agree that they kinda fucked him up a bit with the way he handled that. I could argue he was a new leader trying to keep the peace. But to me it's just iffy writing. That said I like him overall as a character and more lately where he is actually going and what he has done this expansion.

From BFA start until now I liked what he was doing and his reasoning for doing it. I just hope they keep him on this path story wise. I understand if some people see him as beyond repair. Just another casualty of iffy writing.

[Paraka]

Ooof, that was some bad sugary bullcrap from Baine.

"We the Vulpera would like to join the Horde."

"No."

Cause of all times the Horde needs more allies the time when you'reliterally spread too thin is likely a time to capitalize on a race that is so fucking proactive in joining the Horde they literally try joining before you even unlock them.

Wow, Baine, much leadership.

[mickybrighteyes]

I also agree that they kinda fucked him up a bit with the way he handled that. I could argue he was a new leader trying to keep the peace. But to me it's just iffy writing. That said I like him overall as a character and more lately where he is actually going and what he has done this expansion.

If they left the Mulgore gate event in I could see that. But they really killed his credibility with how they had him respond to the events and ignore a certain void of details.

From BFA start until now I liked what he was doing and his reasoning for doing it. I just hope they keep him on this path story wise. I understand if some people see him as beyond repair. Just another casualty of iffy writing.

The problem with his actions in BFA... he didn't act with respect to his people's plight but the straw that broke the camel's back was Baine suddenly being overly concerned with forsaken issues and Proudmoore interests. His antics concerning the ship he attacked and captured and subsequently framed as others doing really just looks incredibly poor except for how it's framed as those were sylvanas loyalists not just horde defending their posts and it was disrupting Sylvanas' plans. the story just ignores that issue that YES Baine's actions are treasonous and we just accept those deaths that occurred as expected because those killed must have been bad.

IMO when he blatantly admitted to orchestrating the events it was just beyond retarded. Like... really... gonna say outright you killed horde crew, stole horde ship, and went to a lead military adviser of the nation we're at war with to discuss confidential plans and actions...

Jesus tap dancing christ that's some retarded planning and the icing on the cake was that he had TWO people he discussed this with. Zelling or Voss leading that bit would make a lick of sense given their original inclination to 'forsaken' ideals (pre-BFA for voss that is cause she flipped in an odd way)... Baine? Baine never cared about Forsaken and was even among those against Forsaken membership to begin with.

Now Zelling/Voss in Baine's place would make a lot more sense as a reason for Baine to act IMO cause it's Sylvanas acting against her own people and you can snowball a better series of reasons for Baine to take action than him suddenly trying to sneaky sneaky his Tauren hindparts into someplace he's not allowed and framing pirates (frame job feels far more like what Voss would do as well)

[Minikin]

What I find it more puzzling is that Mag'har are agreeing to peace with alliance considering they have both normal and LIGHTFORGED draenei, the same people that destroyed their home and culture in a Hilter like fashin.

dont think the orcs get a say in planet wide destruction.....cuz you know.....green thing shiny!

[mickybrighteyes]

dont think the orcs get a say in planet wide destruction.....cuz you know.....green thing shiny!

I think it's more the whole Mag'har being saved from being purged/converted by 'lightforged' to now playing buddy buddy with similar beings with no reference at all to the light blinded crusade they were just caught up in.

With Tyrande voicing her issues concerning the horde after War of thorns which was technically an older event (and shorter event).

It's just an empty bit of plot that likely won't be addressed

[Zensunni]

Who's Baine?

[Trassk]

Ooof, that was some bad sugary bullcrap from Baine.

"We the Vulpera would like to join the Horde."

"No."

Cause of all times the Horde needs more allies the time when you'reliterally spread too thin is likely a time to capitalize on a race that is so fucking proactive in joining the Horde they literally try joining before you even unlock them.

Wow, Baine, much leadership.

He saw their request as them asking for help, which Baine saw as not having enough resources or soldiers to help them. When the vulpera showed they could be a proper asset to the horde he realised their worth.

Seriously if this was a garrosh situation where the vulpera asked to join and he said no because he saw them as weak, only for them to prove their worth and him changing his mind, the people complaining about this thing with Baine wouldn't bat an eyelid to garrosh doing the same?
This fan community is so bloody toxic something..

[Minikin]

I think it's more the whole Mag'har being saved from being purged/converted by 'lightforged' to now playing buddy buddy with similar beings with no reference at all to the light blinded crusade they were just caught up in.

With Tyrande voicing her issues concerning the horde after War of thorns which was technically an older event (and shorter event).

It's just an empty bit of plot that likely won't be addressed

i know, but that swiss cheese level plot hole is everywhere. i mean after suramar and all, Thalysra was all like "Im off to ashenvale to kill drooods!" (if she doesnt say that shes not helping the horde, if she says that she proves tyrande right lol). and then she is all "sylvanas bad" and now everyone is chummy with each other.

to the other guy i just meant, yea what happened to them is bad but technically orcs will not find much sympathy given their track record of ruining their environment lol. i mean hell, no other race got an alternate version of their world ready for saving, and somehow they fucked that up too lol WITH PRIOR WARNING.

[Aucald]

He saw their request as them asking for help, which Baine saw as not having enough resources or soldiers to help them. When the vulpera showed they could be a proper asset to the horde he realised their worth.

Seriously if this was a garrosh situation where the vulpera asked to join and he said no because he saw them as weak, only for them to prove their worth and him changing his mind, the people complaining about this thing with Baine wouldn't bat an eyelid to garrosh doing the same?
This fan community is so bloody toxic something..

I don't think the issue is Baine's original refusal, though. It mostly just seems to be the idea of Baine making any kind of decision at all in this capacity - wouldn't really matter what said decision was. I don't understand the issue either, myself; but that seems to be the root of it.

[Verdugo]

I don't think the issue is Baine's original refusal, though. It mostly just seems to be the idea of Baine making any kind of decision at all in this capacity - wouldn't really matter what said decision was. I don't understand the issue either, myself; but that seems to be the root of it.

Maybe because Baine shouldnt be making decisions at all, since they all end up with dead Horde soldiers, for the greater good of course.

[Minikin]

He saw their request as them asking for help, which Baine saw as not having enough resources or soldiers to help them. When the vulpera showed they could be a proper asset to the horde he realised their worth.

Seriously if this was a garrosh situation where the vulpera asked to join and he said no because he saw them as weak, only for them to prove their worth and him changing his mind, the people complaining about this thing with Baine wouldn't bat an eyelid to garrosh doing the same?
This fan community is so bloody toxic something..

/insert

ItS TOo LatE

YoU CoULD haVe StoPPed ThiS

and other such lines.

im telling ya man, half these ppl keep aiming for a target that doesnt exist (singular faction game by decimating the other faction) then get pissed off by missing it (since it cant happen, a bad story line results in trying to work for it) then complain complain complain.

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Maybe because Baine shouldnt be making decisions at all, since they all end up with dead Horde soldiers, for the greater good of course.

well technically sylvanas is responsible for dead hordies ending up feeding the maw....

also, welcome back!

[jellmoo]

Be thankful. We've had the Council of Three Hammers for like 5 expansions now and it hasn't mattered in the least. Dwarves still don't matter in the Alliance, and despite having three exceptionally cool characters leading the race, they get absolutely zero focus.

Having a council for the Horde is unlikely to go much better.

[Minikin]

By the way, of course Sylvanas somehow appears in that video. That emo sucker always finds a way to appear.

And, uhm, Baine is behind Sylvanas... it looks like something disturbing...

hes gonna split her in two like she split the helm, tearing open a portal to a realm of incessant whining.

[Tyrathius]

This is just the way Blizzard writes. The Alliance was always supposed to be a council, but they invented the High King position to justify Varian and Anduin doing everything because keeping everyone involved is too complicated for them.

They aren't going to have every single leader involved in every single event, even if they logically should. Most decisions are still going to be made by one or two leaders. We'll probably see some of Thrall whenever they can get Metzen back, but figured Baine's VA was more reliable so he's the "default" guy.

[Maljinwo]

Be thankful. We've had the Council of Three Hammers for like 5 expansions now and it hasn't mattered in the least. Dwarves still don't matter in the Alliance, and despite having three exceptionally cool characters leading the race, they get absolutely zero focus.

Having a council for the Horde is unlikely to go much better.

Their beard would outshine the humans, so they are forbidden

[Aucald]

Maybe because Baine shouldnt be making decisions at all, since they all end up with dead Horde soldiers, for the greater good of course.

Soldiers die in times of war - they're the coin that, spent wisely, end the conflict decisively and hopefully for the good of one's cause. Given the nature of the conflict, the person originating it, and her ultimate goal it's probably a good thing the war ended when it did for all involved. On that score, at least, I don't find any fault with Baine.

[Verdugo]

Soldiers die in times of war.

Most of the time, they dont get killed by your own ally.

And I dont mean collateral damage, I mean directly beaten to death.

[jellmoo]

Their beard would outshine the humans, so they are forbidden

Beardly Potential > Human Potential

[Aucald]

Most of the time, they dont get killed by your own ally.

And I dont mean collateral damage, I mean directly beaten to death.

Again, given the nature of the one directing the conflict, I'm not really sure I find fault with that. Sylvanas was *not* on the side of the Horde, and neither were her loyalists at the end of the day.