Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[eschatological]

Like it or not, he created this. His dialogue writing is atrocious indeed (ep. 1-3), but ep. 8 is straight trolling from a hack that only wanted subversion.

"Amazing. Everything you just said is wrong."

Just that one line was better than anything written in the prequels. It is layered, subtle, and doubled down on later in the film - along with the theme that.....well, Rey isn't wrong in that moment.

That's depth at writing.

Oh, and I was also suggesting everything you said was wrong.

[Skulltaker]

"Amazing. Everything you just said is wrong."

Just that one line was better than anything written in the prequels. It is layered, subtle, and doubled down on later in the film - along with the theme that.....well, Rey isn't wrong in that moment.

That's depth at writing.

Oh, and I was also suggesting everything you said was wrong.

Jup. A great quote. To bad that for every good line of dialogue, the movie also has an equally bad line that makes no sense. The scene after Kylo Ren having his long-range talk with Rey and ending up with a drop of water in his hand? Awesome! Rose ranting about horses and inequality in the galaxy while the galaxies only hope for peace and all their friends are run down by the space nazis? Fucking horrible.

[Frogguh]

TLJ has made any ending to the franchise moot. No ending could be satisfactory at this point and JJ Abrams is not exactly the best at having a good ending.

As a big fan of the books and seeing Luke perform as a powerhouse, I have to agree. They'd have to bodily resurrect Luke at this point, and allow him an epic duel, to recover from the disaster that was TLJ.

Also I agree with Endus. Poe is single-handedly responsible for everything bad that happened in TLJ, including Luke's death. He was a far more effective weapon against the Resistance than anything else Snoke or Sidious or Kylo could bring to bear.

[Endus]

Also I agree with Endus. Poe is single-handedly responsible for everything bad that happened in TLJ, including Luke's death.

Nitpick; Luke didn't "die". Nor did Obi-Wan or Yoda, back in the OT. They specifically ascended themselves, body and spirit, directly into the Force itself. Their bodies vanished, because they're not dying a true death. This is complicated a bit because Yoda has a whole death scene before vanishing, but neither Luke nor Obi-Wan are in ill health nor injured in any way when they pass over. They chose to take that step into immortal incorporeality.

Luke was ready to take that step, and Poe had nothing to do with it, other than being present when Luke decided to cast his image to say goodbye to his sister and delay his fallen apprentice (which he'd rightly see as his responsibility).

I'll shit on Poe, but Luke's transition should be seen as a step forward for the character, not a loss.

[Altrec]

"Amazing. Everything you just said is wrong."

Just that one line was better than anything written in the prequels. It is layered, subtle, and doubled down on later in the film - along with the theme that.....well, Rey isn't wrong in that moment.

That's depth at writing.

Oh, and I was also suggesting everything you said was wrong.

TLJ had depth in writing???

I would take any of the prequals and their propensity for cringey dialog over TLJ any day. TFA was at least watchable even though it also wasn't all that good either, but JarJar Abrams does flashy really well so I guess there is that.

[Lothaeryn]

TLJ had depth in writing???

I would take any of the prequals and their propensity for cringey dialog over TLJ any day. TFA was at least watchable even though it also wasn't all that good either, but JarJar Abrams does flashy really well so I guess there is that.

Kids shows like Clone Wars and Rebels had more depth than TLJ, for fucks sake even Star Wars resistance, the cringiest of Disney Star Wars has better plot development than TLJ did.

[Florena]

ROTJ and TLJ are almost like mirrors of eachother for me. Both are movies that have parts I really like. (The Luke/Vader/Emperor stuff in ROTJ, the Luke/Rey/Kylo stuff in TLJ) and stuff I really don't care for. (I think the Jabba's palace part of ROTJ drags some, really don't care for the cutsey Ewok designs etc in ROTJ. The Canto Bite, HOldo/Poe stuff in TLJ, as well as how Snoke went out.) But while both movies have things I enjoy and things I don't, ROTJ balances out to be more good than bad for me and TLJ's moments that I really like feel more isolated.

[eschatological]

TLJ had depth in writing???

I would take any of the prequals and their propensity for cringey dialog over TLJ any day. TFA was at least watchable even though it also wasn't all that good either, but JarJar Abrams does flashy really well so I guess there is that.

While opinions in art and media are subjective and are a matter of taste - your taste is shit.

And it makes me think you only watched TLJ through the lens of wanting to hate it, and haven't watched it since. I've watched it multiple times since it has come out, and the writing is far superior to anything in the prequels by a goddamn country mile.

[Frontenac]

Like I've said elsewhere; nobody hates Star Wars quite as much as Star Wars "fans". The movie isn't even out yet and you've already decided you'll hate it.

- - - Updated - - -



More and more, I'm convincing myself my real issue with Eps 7/8 boils down to a single character.

Poe Dameron.

He should've died in the crash in the desert. Everyone would be better off if he had. The films would be better off. No casino arc in Ep 8. No stupid mutiny in Ep 8, that got the Rebellion slaughtered. It would've refocused things a bit more on Finn, who's the more-interesting character. I really think the worst parts of Ep 8 were all written in the attempt to justify Poe's planned character arc, and just leaving all that out would've improved things tremendously.

And look at the talk about Ep 9. Who's talking about what the fuck is gonna happen with Poe? Nobody cares. Finn, sure, a bit. Rey and Kylo, obviously. Poe? Crickets. He serves no purpose.

Well, I'm pretty sure nobody gave a crap about Leia before Return of the Jedi either. Luke always was the main focus (how will he complete his formation? Is Vader really his father?) and people were surely interested at how Han would be rescued. But Leia?

Strangely enough, I'm rather interested to see what will happen with Poe since he has been set as leader-to-be since Episode 7. Poe is the Sequel Trilogy's Leia. Yes, he's a dashing pilot, like Han, but his role in the trio is really Leia's. Like Leia was the only one that was part of the Rebellion in ANH, Poe is the only member of the Resistance in TFA. In TLJ, he is put in a leader's role, even if it is as a mutineer, and Leia herself is grooming him as a Resistance leader. He makes lots of mistakes in Episode 8, that's for sure, but I'm very curious to see how he learned anything from them in Episode 9.

We can like or dislike what Rian Johnson did in Episode 8, but I believe he did try to give some growth to each character of the heroic trio. In the OT, the main focus was put on Luke, who goes from farmboy to Jedi Knight and learning his own origins. Then you have Han, growing from a self-centered scoundrel to Rebel General, from believing only in himself to believing in a cause. But Leia? She does not change much in three movies (her hairstyle and clothing apart) and her character arc seems to revolve solely around her love story with Han. Now, Rey is in Luke's role. She's the "Jedi to be" in the trio, the one destined to beat the Big Bad. Therefore she has the main focus of the fanbase. Finn is the outsider, like Han. They need to show how he integrates himself in the Resistance. And as I said, Poe is Leia and his story is more straightforeward and thus less interesting for the fanbase. He's the Rebel leader, his place is already made (like Leia), but at least we are shown how he is growing as a leader inside the Resistance (unlike Leia).

No, my biggest problem with the sequels right now is that the trio only became one at the end of TLJ. Rey is introduced to Poe only at the end of the movie, and it should have happened much sooner, in my opinion. But it's J.J. Abrams' decision, not Johnson's. Still enjoying the ride so far, though.

[Skulltaker]

While opinions in art and media are subjective and are a matter of taste - your taste is shit.

And it makes me think you only watched TLJ through the lens of wanting to hate it, and haven't watched it since. I've watched it multiple times since it has come out, and the writing is far superior to anything in the prequels by a goddamn country mile.

I always found the first part only partially true. There are metrics by which one can objectively judge many forms of art, including movies. Quality of soundtrack, CGI, sound effects, acting, coherence of writing...

[Altrec]

While opinions in art and media are subjective and are a matter of taste - your taste is shit.

And it makes me think you only watched TLJ through the lens of wanting to hate it, and haven't watched it since. I've watched it multiple times since it has come out, and the writing is far superior to anything in the prequels by a goddamn country mile.

Yeah yeah opinions are like assholes and we all have one.
I saw it twice it was even worse the second time. I'm sorry, but it just wasn't good and the writing was pretty laughable in my honest opinion. I didn't want to hate it when I saw it opening weekend. I desperately wanted it to fix the problems I had with JarJar Abrams movie, but instead it was so much worse. I'm happy for you that you like it, but I really don't care about your shit opinion anymore than you care about mine. Lets also not pretend any of the Star Wars movies had any real depth in writing let alone TLJ which had about as much depth as a puddle.

[Endus]

Yeah yeah opinions are like assholes and we all have one.
I saw it twice it was even worse the second time. I'm sorry, but it just wasn't good and the writing was pretty laughable in my honest opinion. I didn't want to hate it when I saw it opening weekend. I desperately wanted it to fix the problems I had with JarJar Abrams movie, but instead it was so much worse. I'm happy for you that you like it, but I really don't care about your shit opinion anymore than you care about mine. Lets also not pretend any of the Star Wars movies had any real depth in writing let alone TLJ which had about as much depth as a puddle.

It's a film about laser swords and space wizards.

If you're expecting The Godfather, your expectations were always unreasonable.

[Shadowferal]

With the Mandalorian my bro lost interest in seeing this movie, hopefully my sis no longer cares too, n mom too.
I bet many are skipping movie, it'll be subpar to mandalorian except for explosions n cgi..

Yeah, I was already there after TLJ.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Goodness gracious! New leaks have surfaced regarding the latest cut of the movie.

They discarded George's ideas for TFA, and now they've discarded his attempt to salvage TRoS in favor of this...

-snip- Stop posting videos based on conspiracies about social agendas and rumored leaks that are in no way substantiated.

[cyberglum]

It's a film about laser swords and space wizards.

Really Endus? Jesus..

[Horrid Crow]

Goodness gracious! New leaks have surfaced regarding the latest cut of the movie.

They discarded George's ideas for TFA, and now they've discarded his attempt to salvage TRoS in favor of this...

-snip- Stop posting videos based on conspiracies about social agendas and rumored leaks that are in no way substantiated.

Imagine if the people who make those videos, as well as those that comment on and spread them would spend only a fraction of that time studying and practicing film making. Every movie would be a 10/10 masterpiece.

[Gorsameth]

Imagine if the people who make those videos, as well as those that comment on and spread them would spend only a fraction of that time studying and practicing film making. Every movie would be a 10/10 masterpiece.

The youtube outrage industry is worth a lot of $$.

[Delever]

Really Endus? Jesus..

The fact that you re a 5 year member on this forum and still bother replying to Endus is admirable to say the least. I gave up back when he was still a moderator.

[Wilian]

George wrote the shit prequels. He also wrote fucking awful OT scripts which had to be redone at every level, at his own wife's insistence - the point that they brought in a second screenwriter for ESB and only gave George "Story by" credits. Give me Rian Johnson's writing any day of the week.

George directed and screenwrote shit prequels. However each of those failures did have roots for a brilliant movies under better screenwriter and a director. There's a reason why best Star Wars movies are overseen by Lucas, not directed nor screenwritten by him. There's very little to save from sequels. One is one to one AHN remake, another is visually impressive turd.

[eschatological]

I still think both the sequel movies are better than anything in the prequel.

And if we had to compare to the OT, I'd still go: ESB > ANH > TLJ > RotJ ~= TFA.

Yes, I rate TLJ better than Ewoks.