Bastion is the real hell

[Sorrowseer]

You're playing semantics now, and not even correctly. Clearly the afterlife can be conceived of, we are talking about it.

No we are not, you can die there, so it not the afterlife.

[Piamonte]

No we are not, you can die there, so it not the afterlife.

you can die there, because you dont go as a spirit, you go there while being alive.

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Progenitor does not mean looking the same, their abilities are based on them, because Odyn traded his eye for the knowledge to shape Vrykul souls in such a manner. There simply is no treason for them to look this human



Not the point



Again The spirit healers you know are not Kyrians, nothing at blizz con changed that. Those guys are still vrykul.

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You might see it that way, after considering every angle I fundamentally disagree, there was absolutely zero reason to model the Kyrians in such a way, none bar having them more relatable, due to looking 90% human.

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They still exist, everything they were in life they are also in death. Memories define a person, take that away and you have an empty shell we are basically talking about suicide here.



It is literally in her short story.

"memories define a person, take that away and you have an empty shell" how do you know this??? this are the kind of things that are debated by philosophers, psychologists, etc. You dont know for certain, neither you have the last word on it.

[mickybrighteyes]

"memories define a person, take that away and you have an empty shell" how do you know this??? this are the kind of things that are debated by philosophers, psychologists, etc. You dont know for certain, neither you have the last word on it.

Do you want to actually make a point or just fall back on "you can't prove that" as your statement? You can't prove or disprove the issue, but how can you really prove something is a specific thing after removing everything that made it unique?

[Nefarious Tea]

There's no hypocrisy. Illidan wouldn't go to Bastion.



The problem with that is that you made the "no choice" part up. If you weren't okay with it, you wouldn't get sent to Bastion in the first place.

Except before blizzcon, mortal souls (excepting probably Sylvanas Windrunner and the Arthas-as-Lich-King) had no idea what was waiting for them on the other side.

Imagine living a good life, a kind and giving life... only to find out your eternal reward is to be wiped from existence, your soul melted and reshaped into something else.

[Piamonte]

Do you want to actually make a point or just fall back on "you can't prove that" as your statement? You can't prove or disprove the issue, but how can you really prove something is a specific thing after removing everything that made it unique?

So people with amnesia arent a person, lol

[Combatbutler]

So people with amnesia arent a person, lol

They are not the same person, behaviour interaction etc. is all tied into memories.

[mickybrighteyes]

So people with amnesia arent a person, lol

today on jumping to conclusions

a better analogy might be more computer based... people die, souls go to Bastion and get formatted back to factory settings to get a new operating system installed. All the profiles on the platform are reverted to default and nothing extra added. bonus points... physical form is gone so it's not even the same shell

[Piamonte]

They are not the same person, behaviour interaction etc. is all tied into memories.

That wasnt what I was discussing

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today on jumping to conclusions

a better analogy might be more computer based... people die, souls go to Bastion and get formatted back to factory settings to get a new operating system installed. All the profiles on the platform are reverted to default and nothing extra added. bonus points... physical form is gone so it's not even the same shell

We dont know how the process works, why dont you wait until the expansion comes out

[mickybrighteyes]

We dont know how the process works, why dont you wait until the expansion comes out

How about you don't bother quoting or replying unless you have something to actually contribute to the conversation. First it was a response that was little more than better people discuss that so we can't.... now it's wait and see so don't talk about it now?

I mean yeah the whole tauren quest line shown thus far is pretty early to not amount to much but that and the previews they've released are telling us something that is discussion worthy.

[lettersandpunctuation]

To people saying “you only get sent to Bastion if you choose it”:

If we could choose what afterlife to go to after we die then what is the Arbiter’s job even?

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

To people saying “you only get sent to Bastion if you choose it”:

If we could choose what afterlife to go to after we die then what is the Arbiter’s job even?

True the Arbiter would be out of business.

[Piamonte]

How about you don't bother quoting or replying unless you have something to actually contribute to the conversation. First it was a response that was little more than better people discuss that so we can't.... now it's wait and see so don't talk about it now?

I mean yeah the whole tauren quest line shown thus far is pretty early to not amount to much but that and the previews they've released are telling us something that is discussion worthy.

the point is the same, you are complaining about things you dont have any knowledge about, so the one who isnt contributing to the conversation is you.

[dunkl]

I saw the vid and the my understanding of it was we were helping in an exercise not to help someone forget, but to disperse with the memories while the aspirant was meditating as part of the exercise. like waking someone up from a dream when things get too intense. I did not see or read anything about forcing the aspirant to forget, the trainer said the memories of family or loved ones are hardest to forget - meaning it might be more difficult for us players to disperse of the aspirant's fond memories, during the exercise. the aspirant feeling calm and a little sad after makes sense since he was reminiscing of his past and loved ones. he wouldn't be sad if he had no memory of those things, he'd have no emotion about them because he wouldn't know about them. because he feels calm and sad means he was meditating on past events and people, and we simply aided in a practice by dispersing the strong memories while he was in a meditative state.

Sort of like near the arcendor with the withered's memories - when they got too great, terrifying, intense or overwhelming, we aided by canceling the negative effects and emotions they were having at that moment - and it was probably so that the aspirant could learn to reflect on his or her life and emerge healed and whole. anyway that was what I understood of that scene. the other scenes were to have the player face their past and defeat burdensome, sorrowful, painful events and memories, to show growth - it wasn't him forgetting, it was a metaphor for becoming stronger through realization and acceptance and not letting go but moving on. this op and thread are stating the preview is one thing when it's not. I understood those moments in the preview to mean other things, as did others, and we do need to experience and explore the zones and story to understand. the zone was incomplete, unfinished and missing text and dialogue. some of that may also have been placeholder for better conveyance later.

[mickybrighteyes]

the point is the same,

I don't know what point you're on anymore. So I can't agree

you are complaining about things you dont have any knowledge about,

I'm complaining about your manner of posting which seems to either being quoting the wrong people or more of an attempt to shut down discussion when it doesn't seem to your liking...

You seem to know have much knowledge about the posts you're choosing to respond to or the context in which some posts are discussing

so the one who isnt contributing to the conversation is you.

Please re-evaluate your position here when you're continuing to 'contribute' by telling people to 'shut up'


As for a lack of knowledge on the events in the lore? Well public releases are still giving information, thus the basis for threads like these to form in response to information being made. You might think it's fine and dandy to wait for events to fully unfold... I would agree.. if we were still pre-8.0.

If you mean lack of knowledge on the philosophical concept of self.. well I find myself doubting whether or not you're in much position to speak on it either.

[Temp1on2]

No we are not, you can die there, so it not the afterlife.

What are you talking about? Do you know what the word conceive means? We patently can conceive of an afterlife - people have been doing it for thousands upon thousands of years. In fact, several major religions of the world believe in an afterlife not dissimilar from that which features reincarnation.

I think you've forgotten your original argument.

Bottom line, the 'afterlife' is no more understood by humanity than magic/demons/void-gods (all stem entirely from imagination and are not real) therefore the argument that the afterlife is 'beyond mortal understanding' is a nonsensical argument as to why not to include it in a game with the aforementioned creatures/magic

[Sorrowseer]

What are you talking about? Do you know what the word conceive means? We patently can conceive of an afterlife - people have been doing it for thousands upon thousands of years. In fact, several major religions of the world believe in an afterlife not dissimilar from that which features reincarnation.

I think you've forgotten your original argument.

Bottom line, the 'afterlife' is no more understood by humanity than magic/demons/void-gods (all stem entirely from imagination and are not real) therefore the argument that the afterlife is 'beyond mortal understanding' is a nonsensical argument as to why not to include it in a game with the aforementioned creatures/magic

So the afterlife is a broken mirror of life, how was it all made? What cosmic power made it all and why make it so that it is a broken mirror of life, 'true' afterlife cannot be concieved, you can pick the words I use apart if you want to disagree that is fine, its hard to convey in words something that cannot be understood, the expansion should not use the afterlife as 'zone' as it cheapens the very existence of the afterlife in general.

[Frontenac]

Progenitor does not mean looking the same, their abilities are based on them, because Odyn traded his eye for the knowledge to shape Vrykul souls in such a manner. There simply is no treason for them to look this human



Not the point



Again The spirit healers you know are not Kyrians, nothing at blizz con changed that. Those guys are still vrykul.

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You might see it that way, after considering every angle I fundamentally disagree, there was absolutely zero reason to model the Kyrians in such a way, none bar having them more relatable, due to looking 90% human.

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They still exist, everything they were in life they are also in death. Memories define a person, take that away and you have an empty shell we are basically talking about suicide here.



It is literally in her short story.

It was said that she went to Oribos when she died? I mean when she died as a high elf.

Listen, in a way, I'm with you here. I am catholic, and to me the idea of an afterlife where I lose my identity is rather lackluster... I've been raised to believe that God loves me personnaly, since the womb. However, in other religions, especially asian, that sublimation or dilution of the self in the whole is exactly what they strive to achieve and I doubt they look at it as suicide. So if real people want that, long for that, I see no problem that souls in Bastion may want it too to become a Kyrian. We may not like it for ourselves, but that's the path Blizzard has chosen and I can accept that. I mean, I love Avatar: The Last Airbender, and there is reincarnation all over the place. Again, not my cup of tea, but it remains a great story.

[Temp1on2]

So the afterlife is a broken mirror of life, how was it all made? What cosmic power made it all and why make it so that it is a broken mirror of life, 'true' afterlife cannot be concieved, you can pick the words I use apart if you want to disagree that is fine, its hard to convey in words something that cannot be understood

That's all entirely irrelevant and you could say the exact same thing about any fictional aspect of the warcraft universe just substitute 'afterlife' with 'arcane magic'.

The expansion should not use the afterlife as 'zone' as it cheapens the very existence of the afterlife in general

LOL? What are you talking about???? The afterlife doesn't exist.

[lettersandpunctuation]

'true' afterlife cannot be concieved

The afterlife as it exists in the fictional world of warcraft can indeed be conceived of because we can see it through the eyes of our characters. They even had a playable demo for blizzcon attendees, im sure some of them recorded their experiences and uploaded them to youtube. Check them out if you’re having trouble conceiving of the Warcraft afterlife.

[Piamonte]

I don't know what point you're on anymore. So I can't agree


I'm complaining about your manner of posting which seems to either being quoting the wrong people or more of an attempt to shut down discussion when it doesn't seem to your liking...

You seem to know have much knowledge about the posts you're choosing to respond to or the context in which some posts are discussing


Please re-evaluate your position here when you're continuing to 'contribute' by telling people to 'shut up'


As for a lack of knowledge on the events in the lore? Well public releases are still giving information, thus the basis for threads like these to form in response to information being made. You might think it's fine and dandy to wait for events to fully unfold... I would agree.. if we were still pre-8.0.

If you mean lack of knowledge on the philosophical concept of self.. well I find myself doubting whether or not you're in much position to speak on it either.

first people here starts saying "oh he lost who his memory, there is nothing left of him anymore" to which i reply: you dont know for certain because a) thats a philosophical question and b) we dont know how the process work because the expansion isnt out yet", so discussing this matter is pointless and it only leads to people assuming things before hand.

Anyway i really dont care if you consider i should or should not participate in this discussion.