WoW is a subscription game - why employ scummy F2P tactics?

[Big Thanks]

I simply choose to ignore the shop and RaF scheme...

BUT is only fun and games for me because it still didnt happen for something amazing to come up in one of this things.

If, for some reason, an "assassin-like" back that also covers your face is available...i will...be a victim.
Something like this.

[Ticj]

Because sadly, whales eat microtransactions up.

[rhorle]

All the mounts in the store not being available through achievements, drops, vendors etc like they were in the past. Dont kid yourself, your sub fee is being used to pay artists for WoW content, therefore by nature of the fact you already paid your sub, you should have access to it, instead, they just package it up and try to ask for more money for it.

TCG says hi. They also had exclusive pets to the CE. So from the start there were things that you had to pay extra for.

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As far as im concerned, they are still content, and a subscription fee entails that you pay upfront for development of the content, and thus access to it. They are just selling it seperately. Thats wrong.

99% of the content for the subscription is delivered at no extra charge though. That is an important distinction. The flipside in a free to play game is having a subscription as well. As free to play games on the scope of WoW would offer a subscription in addition to all the other pay to play road blocks.

[Mysterymask]

TCG says hi. They also had exclusive pets to the CE. So from the start there were things that you had to pay extra for.

To be fair most of that is after-market value... Blizz only got the money from selling the packs by all accounts a Spectral Tiger could of costed like $5.99 or however much a booster pack cost...the huge inflated cost came from people selling them on ebay.

[jellmoo]

But thats not a fair comparison. WoW revenue is still incredibly high and profitable per person at current sub levels, they couldnt raise it anyway.

As far as im concerned, they are still content, and a subscription fee entails that you pay upfront for development of the content, and thus access to it. They are just selling it seperately. Thats wrong.

Except you're looking at it like: It's still profitable, so it's fine.

That simply isn't how companies see things. Every year as inflation occurs, costs go up meaning they see less profit per subscription. Other services, let's say internet providers, mobile phone coverage, cable television and the like, all have increased the costs of subscription as time has gone by. Even companies like Netflix succumb to the need to increase subscription rates due to inflation.

Blizzard has not. They are offsetting this loss through MTX. This allows them to keep the subscription cost down, therefore keeping their subscription count higher than it would be had it increased, keeping the cost to people that don't engage in purchasing shop items down.

Their options really are:

1) Absorb the cost of inflation (as a general rule companies don't do this for any length of time)
2) Pass that cost along to the consumer directly (increase sub cost)
3) Pass that cost along to the consumer indirectly (in this case, MTX shop)

I would personally prefer that they do 3 rather than 2 as it keeps my cost down, whilst living with the understanding that 1 is not a viable option for a publicly traded company.

[rhorle]

To be fair most of that is after-market value... Blizz only got the money from selling the packs by all accounts a Spectral Tiger could of costed like $5.99 or however much a booster pack cost...the huge inflated cost came from people selling them on ebay.

That is true but they still added in loot cards to the boost the sales of the cards and the first company had points that you could collect and redeem for items. The large third party value of loot cards doesn't change that Blizzard was selling them as essentially "cash shop" items. You just randomly acquired them through buying card packs.

[Mojo03]

And I think that a distinction does need to be made because what they offer for extra:

- Does not impact gameplay
- Are "luxury" items

Most importantly, it keeps costs for the bulk of the playerbase down. We have not seen an increase in cost for subscriptions over the years. I would rather that they introduce MTX vanity items that some people like to buy and keep the sub cost down, rather than raise the sub cost for everyone.

If I remember right, the cost was originally conceived by mimicking the Everquest subscription model and justified that it was needed to support the server infrastructure in 2004, when technology needed to support what was needed for MMOs was niche and expensive, which is no longer the case. This is pre-Facebook, iPhones, Xbox live, App stores and pretty much everything tech we take for granted today.

If I remember right, It was also claimed it would support additional content, like expansions would not be a thing, they’d just come in patches and be paid for with your subscription fee, which didn't happen probably after they realized how much more they could make selling more boxes.

Nowadays $15 a month is a borderline joke for a 15 year old, mediocre game, especially when services like Xbox game pass and PS now are $10 and contain hundreds of games and dozens of AAA top quality games. Not to mention the growing amount of FTP games that are actually well made and constant sales on Steam. None of this existed when the game payment model was conceived.

If they raised the price, they likely lose a ton of people who are currently on the fence about the game, of which there are a lot, and wind up losing more than they gain from it. They aren’t not raising it from the kindness of their hearts, they’re likely very aware of its value in the current market and know there is no way they can raise it. The main thing keeping the game even floating despite the current market is peoples emotional investment in their characters and social connections they’ve built in game for years.

[Seranthor]

If I remember right, the cost was originally conceived by mimicking the Everquest subscription model and justified that it was needed to support the server infrastructure in 2004, when technology needed to support what was needed for MMOs was niche and expensive, which is no longer the case. This is pre-Facebook, iPhones, Xbox live, App stores and pretty much everything tech we take for granted today.

If I remember right, It was also claimed it would support additional content, like expansions would not be a thing, they’d just come in patches and be paid for with your subscription fee, which didn't happen probably after they realized how much more they could make selling more boxes.

Nowadays $15 a month is a borderline joke for a 15 year old, mediocre game, especially when services like Xbox game pass and PS now are $10 and contain hundreds of games and dozens of AAA top quality games.

If they raised the price, they likely lose a ton of people who are currently on the fence about the game, of which there are a lot, and wind up losing more than they gain from it. They aren’t not raising it from the kindness of their hearts, they’re likely very aware of its value in the current market and know there is no way they can raise it. The main thing keeping the game even floating despite the current market is peoples emotional investment in their characters and social connections they’ve built in game for years.

Yet, you are either throwing your money at them to continue to play, or, you are here stalking the game trashing it because you are unhappy... Which is it?

[jellmoo]

If I remember right, the cost was originally conceived by mimicking the Everquest subscription model and justified that it was needed to support the server infrastructure in 2004, when technology needed to support what was needed for MMOs was niche and expensive, which is no longer the case. This is pre-Facebook, iPhones, Xbox live, App stores and pretty much everything tech we take for granted today.

If I remember right, It was also claimed it would support additional content, like expansions would not be a thing, they’d just come in patches and be paid for with your subscription fee, which didn't happen probably after they realized how much more they could make selling more boxes.

Nowadays $15 a month is a borderline joke for a 15 year old, mediocre game, especially when services like Xbox game pass and PS now are $10 and contain hundreds of games and dozens of AAA top quality games.

If they raised the price, they likely lose a ton of people who are currently on the fence about the game, of which there are a lot, and wind up losing more than they gain from it. They aren’t not raising it from the kindness of their hearts, they’re likely very aware of its value in the current market and know there is no way they can raise it. The main thing keeping the game even floating despite the current market is peoples emotional investment in their characters and social connections they’ve built in game for years.

The thing to remember is that WoW is a completely unique beast. There is no other game like it on the market. That doesn't give them a pass on things, but it does mean that they are playing by a set of unknown rules that they essentially have to guess through as they go.

The thing about shareholders though is that they don't care about perceived quality or worth. They care about a return on their investment and growth. When costs go up that means profits go down and that's bad. When subs go down it's the same thing. So when costs are going up and subs are going down (regardless of the reason and there are lots) the investors gets antsy because lower revenue means lower profits.

And you're right: It's entirely likely that the game wouldn't survive a subscription cost hike. But that still leaves them with making less money per subscription. Even if they remain in the black, they still means negative growth and a company with negative growth will be abandoned by shareholders. So they need to find new sources of revenue, which is where the cash shop comes into play. It lets them keep sub cost down and maintain profits which lets them work on growth.

[rhorle]

Nowadays $15 a month is a borderline joke for a 15 year old, mediocre game, especially when services like Xbox game pass and PS now are $10 and contain hundreds of games and dozens of AAA top quality games.

People keep bringing this up but it really is an apples and oranges comparison. Most of the games don't offer the same potential of hours played as WoW does. Sure they might start to impact the standard subscription price as they become more popular. But those game passes aren't some mega great value. You just get a lot of fools gold for every good game you get. They are designed at keeping you more on the platform then for huge amounts of entertainment.

Retail WoW is also not a 15 year old game. It has had a few graphical upgrades (not revolutionary by any means) and has changed a lot since launch. There are plenty of times where it could be called a "new game".

[Mysterymask]

Truth be told...I only sub to PSnow because of God of War and Persona 5...literally nothing else on there appeals to me, I already have it, or I refuse to stream it. I subbed for the year and if the entire year goes by I finish Persona (already completed God of War) and NOTHING else on there appeals to me then it isn't worth my sub

Wow is pretty much never ending (much to the anger of half this sub) and the fans are willing to pay the same price for a port of the original game....and as long as people keep paying it..its worth $15

[Mojo03]

The thing to remember is that WoW is a completely unique beast. There is no other game like it on the market. That doesn't give them a pass on things, but it does mean that they are playing by a set of unknown rules that they essentially have to guess through as they go.

The thing about shareholders though is that they don't care about perceived quality or worth. They care about a return on their investment and growth. When costs go up that means profits go down and that's bad. When subs go down it's the same thing. So when costs are going up and subs are going down (regardless of the reason and there are lots) the investors gets antsy because lower revenue means lower profits.

And you're right: It's entirely likely that the game wouldn't survive a subscription cost hike. But that still leaves them with making less money per subscription. Even if they remain in the black, they still means negative growth and a company with negative growth will be abandoned by shareholders. So they need to find new sources of revenue, which is where the cash shop comes into play. It lets them keep sub cost down and maintain profits which lets them work on growth.

I should also say, I’m not that against the cash shop for vanity items. I’ll literally never use it and if people are really dumb enough to use it or want something that bad then I don’t care. It’s a ripoff and a joke, but whatever. I do agree it shouldn’t exist a game with a subscription fee, especially when it increasingly becoming more unclear why that subscription fee even exists. I am however very against mtx as it currently exists for player services and believe it’s outright exploitation and morally and ethically wrong. I’m also against the subscription fee because I literally have no idea what the hell it even exists for.

Yes, it’s a lot of income for them, but why the hell am I paying to access a game I’ve already paid for when I can buy literally almost any other game and not have to deal with that. There is literally nothing the $15 a month does for me. It’s not needed to run the severs, the game isn’t a premium service, and nothing about it really is that different than any other similar game I can play for free or just need to buy the box for. Why the hell am I paying $15 to access it? Doesn’t make sense. Especially in 2020.

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People keep bringing this up but it really is an apples and oranges comparison. Most of the games don't offer the same potential of hours played as WoW does. Sure they might start to impact the standard subscription price as they become more popular. But those game passes aren't some mega great value. You just get a lot of fools gold for every good game you get. They are designed at keeping you more on the platform then for huge amounts of entertainment.

Retail WoW is also not a 15 year old game. It has had a few graphical upgrades (not revolutionary by any means) and has changed a lot since launch. There are plenty of times where it could be called a "new game".

It’s not about each game offering the potential for as many hours as WoW potentially could, it’s about the subscription models of each and the services as a whole and those both blow WoW out of the water and are 33% cheaper.

[Stormcall]

with cutesy anthropomorphic animals

Like...tauren and pandaren?

[Seranthor]

Why the hell am I paying $15 to access it? Doesn’t make sense. Especially in 2020.

So, what are you actually going to do about it?

[LazarusLong]

FF 14 have far more aggressive monetization, yet it's almost never mentioned on forums or social media. Always wondered why that is.

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What so 1% is fine. What about 2%, or 5%, or 10%, 90% is still a large percentage. Its the concept Rhorle, I dont care if its 1%, or .5%. We pay $15 a month plus expansion fees and we still dont get everything, and they are only going to take more and more away.

Who said I agree with TCG with mounts in though? Comparing that with an in game store is completely different anyway. But again, who said I agree or disagree with that.

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No, I could equally make the argument that your disagreement to me is akin to saying you think Blizzard can do whatever they want without reprocussions or critisism. I made it quite clear, If you want to make a game sub fee based, dont then ask for more money, especially when the sub fee is $15.

Im not looking at it like that at all, look, Jellmoo I know far more than most when it comes to understanding the mentality behind these companies and their motivations for never ending increasing profits, im not thick, I just hate it.

Im not looking at it as

Im looking at it as, I dont give a fuck about your extra profits, you crossed a line. You're already asking for $200 a year and now you want more, and I wont accept any increased cost arguments or anything similar. People fucking forget, most games cost the same $49/59 and have no sub fee, and do great, or have micro transactions instead of a sub fee, Blizzard wants the whole fucking lot, game cost, sub fee AND microtransactions and I DONT AGREE ITS RIGHT.

You don't have to pay anything extra. It's just cosmetics.

[Seranthor]

.

One really has to wonder about people that hate a game so much they keep throwing money at it. If you aren't still playing why are you squealing about the state of the game so much?

[Seranthor]

I literally feel like im banging my head against this thread now. Ill say it again as I dont expect you to have read the entire thread. In a model where you already pay $59 for the game, and then pay additionally monthly $15, I think it is pure greed to then sell assets the artists are creating for additional cost, I dont give a damn that its cosmetic or not.

And that is fine to have that opinion... there are some that share it... and there are many that dont... that is the beauty of opinions.. we can all have them.

[Deianeira]

My entire post was tongue-in-cheeck. But you can't deny that the resemblance to scummy Chinese mobile games with cutesy anthropomorphic animals is there.

Well i guess you have disliked WoW since start then? I mean there was this Cowpeople you could play from the start.

[Seranthor]

Ahh I see you removed my quote, shame you didnt elaborate on it, as you said in another thread we spoke in, you are almost always right, it would have been interesting to see you argue against a fact.

I dont play the game because im doing exactly what you suggested in your infinite knowlege, to vote with my wallet, and not waste my money on a game that has been turned from one of my favorites, to a game I no longer enjoy. Im well within my rights to come on a forum and try to stimulate positive change and awareness of what Blizzard is doing time to time in the hopes of making a difference.

You'll forgive my insolence, when did I say that I was almost always right? Sounds like you've confused me with someone else. I concur you are within your rights to attempt to stimulate positive change. What I dont understand is how you plan to achieve that change when all it appears you are doing is thrashing people that dont share your opinion. Certainly that cant be conducive to reaching the change you want, is it?

[Seranthor]

.

It's Blizzard's game, yes? They can do with their game as they see fit, yes? People can spend their money as they see fit, yes? If any of your answers are no, then I'd like to hear your justification for your answer. (See how that works).