[Spoilers] *not fake* picture of jailer *not fake*

[TheRevenantHero]

Try actually reading the post, bro. Rezan and Bwonsamdi are troll deities, that is, deities worshiped by the trolls. Mueh'zala is worshiped by the Farraki (that's where we first encountered a reference to him/it). The Farrakki are trolls. Therefore, Mueh'zala is a troll deity. I will accept I am wrong if you can find me one troll deity that has a human-like appearance.

Until then...?
@Sneaksies too

Sure, Pyro has been right about a few things. But stand back and look at his predictions. The Shadowlands was an easy guess. Lots of people had been guessing it and yes, even two years ago. It was a massive part of the lore that was unexplored, and we knew even then Sylvanas was up to something. Yes, Pyro did a good job on making that prediction, but it wasn't a particularly groundbreaking one. If he had predicted the existence of Torghast, or the Night Fae, then that would be more impressive.

I totally get the attraction with his theories and predictions, but if you step back and look at it all it's either a) wild speculation based on nothing, or b) a fairly solid and easy guess, dressed up in a clever way.

Just because he's a troll deity doesn't mean he has to be a certain appearance. Hell, that's likely WHY only the Farraki worship Mueh'zala. Because he's normally not even a loa. He's a formless death god. It's speculated he's even who gave Odyn the ability to see into the Shadowlands which would further support the Jailer being Mueh'zala.

[Sneaksies]

It would not, since not everything needs to be mentioned for it to be a solid baseline, just that everything that is actually written down in there is 100% canon, meaning blizz wouldn't have been able to integrate things that directly contradicted things in there. The shadowlands were mentioned and described in what 4 sentences that was enough to work with in the future.

Only an Idiot would make the argument the chronicle had to be all encompassing, all that mattered was the canonicity of its contents, nothing more, nothing less.

im not saying that. everyone thought it was an all knowing book, and that you cant go against it. everything in there is true. thats what people thought, not what i thought

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Anyone else thinking OP is just pyro himself.. why defend the fuckin' guy so much?!

becuase people are fucking stupid. no its not pyro, im a pyro fan tho. im defending his theories i believe in

[rhorle]

there is very obviously flaws with chronicle that pyro had pointed out BEFORE blizz confirmed it was written by the titans

None of those are flaws. It just doesn't cover those topics. Blizzard could release a Chronicles volume 4 that explains all of that. Your logic is saying that anything release after Volume 1 is a flaw because it wasn't covered in Volume 1.

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if it was an "all knowing book" like everyone thought it was, it would mention those two things

Not everything was mentioned in Volume 1. Because not everything has to be mentioned in it for it to be "all knowing".

[Yoshingo]

im not the one that thought that. many people said it was an all knowing book. of course it cant include everything. my point is it would of included those things since they are extremely important

Nobody with a shred of integrity would ever declare that Chronicle needs to include information that would spoil every expansion for the rest of Warcraft's history. That's such a ridiculous and, frankly, dishonest argument that it blows my mind this is what you're actually trying to defend him with.

Everything ever to be written about the franchise doesn't have to be included for it to be all knowing. For all we know they're going to release a Chronicle 4 about all the new stuff Chronicle 3 didn't include.

You are, quite literally, using the fallacy of absence of evidence in declaring something as true or false.

Anyone else thinking OP is just pyro himself.. why defend the fuckin' guy so much?!

Yes 100%

[Feanoro]

Its also not the first time Blizzard has done this.

They constantly break old lore and hand wave it away with, "This was just X's perspective."

The lore itself never changes they just add in new conflicting nonsense and don't bother to square the two conflicting events.

They literally threw out this bullshit answer of, "UHHH ITS FROM THE TITAN'S PERSPECTIVE" because the questions was framed in a way to get them to confirm that nothing could happen outside of what Chronicle had already written. And, as I've said, they've broken this rule before.

That's what I said. Haven't seen the video in question, but predicting something that involves Blizzard a) lying, b) retconning, c) flat out forgetting/ignoring previous writing is dynamiting fish in a barrel.

It doesn't suddenly mean Chronicle isn't true, whatsoever, and nothing has come about from that statement since.

Because they realized that answer opens them up to false advertising, since it was sold as the definitive source.

[rhorle]

thats not what im saying. i have said in posts on this thread, chronicle is still a somewhat reliable source just take everything with a grain of salt

he doesnt. everyone was shitting on him for saying chronicle is not 100% true, and now that he is correct everyones says he randomly guessed it. lmao

You claimed he was being attacked for saying that Chronicles is not 100% true. Then used blizzards statement to prove that chronicles is not 100% true when their statement does nothing of the sort. At least commit to what you are stating instead of backing away from it the first time someone proves you wrong.

[Sneaksies]

Nobody with a shred of integrity would ever declare that Chronicle needs to include information that would spoil every expansion for the rest of Warcraft's history. That's such a ridiculous and, frankly, dishonest argument that it blows my mind this is what you're actually trying to defend him with.

dude. people said that everything in chronicle was true. it never mentions the future, thats not my point. book 1 goes over the history of the cosmos, and should of included argus and where the shadowlands came from. of course it cant include everything in the future, thats not the point of the book. its a history. what i meant by all knowing was that everything in it was 100% true, and it included almost everything important in the history of the cosmos and that there is no room for anything else because "it wasnt in chronicle"

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You claimed he was being attacked for saying that Chronicles is not 100% true. Then used blizzards statement to prove that chronicles is not 100% true when their statement does nothing of the sort. At least commit to what you are stating instead of backing away from it the first time someone proves you wrong.

? i dont understand. when i said it wasnt 100% true i meant not everything in it is true. i didnt mean everything in it is false.

blizzard confirming it was written by the titans confirms that chronicle is not correct on every single thing and that it doesnt know everything. its written by the titans, who have bias and dont know everything. far from it actually

[Lady Atia]

Love it. I'm glad I got to see it earlier honestly. I've been craving Shadowlands news so much.
This is absolutely real. Anyone who's scoured the concept art pictures released at Blizzard can confirm that this is in the same format.

So people have been speculating he might be Amanthul's son because of his Muezhalah's title as the "Son of Time". But I'm thinking of another hypothesis. Could he be Amanthul's father?
Amanthul is pretty much Zeus, leader of the Pantheon. Zeus' father was Cronos, which he defeated and ... get this, imprisioned in Tartarus.
I think this idea of more than one generation/hierarchy of gods akin to greek mythology might make some sense. Pyromancer gets conflicted on which character is actually the titan of Death, Argus or the Jailer, but with 2 generations, we could look at Argus as the Hades while Jailer as the Cronos.
I also think it could lend some idea as to whom Elune is. After all we know she birthed the prime naarus, we know she has the utmost significance, having one of the pillars of creation in her name. What if she is Rhea, also associated with nature and known as the mother of gods?
The Jailer and Elune would have be the progenitors of the Pantheon, which is somehow involved in a cosmic conspiracy - per blizzard's description on their site - of hiding them for some reason.
Heck, Eonar having run off to Elunaria would be a child running off to mother for protection.

Really kooky speculation but I enjoy it and I think there's something to it.

I really like that theory!

[Yoshingo]

people said that everything in chronicle was true. it never mentions the future, thats not my point. book 1 goes over the history of the cosmos, and should of included argus and where the shadowlands came from.

THEY AREN'T GOING TO SPOIL THE FUTURE GAMES IN CHRONICLE.

Holy shit the fact that you can't get this is mind blowing.

By this ridiculous, ridiculous, and dishonest argument, almost none of what was in the 3 Chronicle books should be known because the Pantheon fucking died at the beginning of the chronology and then their spirits were either directly trapped by Sargeras or were hiding in their sanctuaries.

Its almost like they were making this shit up as they were going and Chronicle, as it was advertised and defended as such by Blizzard employees at the time, was the Word of God of the story's chronology.

[Combatbutler]

im not saying that. everyone thought it was an all knowing book, and that you cant go against it. everything in there is true. thats what people thought, not what i thought

if it was an "all knowing book" like everyone thought it was, it would mention those two things

Yeah sure you didn't, you literally made the argument the chronicle should have been this all knowing book then, with every detail etc., if it was supposed to be 100% canon, that argument is downright asinine.

[rhorle]

dude. people said that everything in chronicle was true. it never mentions the future, thats not my point.

Blizzard has stated the Chronciles is true. They have not stated that it contains non-lore. It can't contain the future because time travel doesn't exist. Like seriously. Why are you even trying to argue a point that revolves around them not containing future lore.

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blizzard confirming it was written by the titans confirms that chronicle is not correct on every single thing and that it doesnt know everything. its written by the titans, who have bias and dont know everything. far from it actually

That is not the same thing as saying what they did write has lies in it.

[Sneaksies]

Yeah sure you didn't, you literally made the argument the chronicle should have been this all knowing book then, with every detail etc., if it was supposed to be 100% canon, that argument is downright asinine.

no, what im saying is that because it didnt include those things means its not an "all knowing book" like alot of people thought it was

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Blizzard has stated the Chronciles is true. They have not stated that it contains non-lore. It can't contain the future because time travel doesn't exist. Like seriously. Why are you even trying to argue a point that revolves around them not containing future lore.

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That is not the same thing as saying what they did write has lies in it.

it might. titans can lie

yes chronicle is cannon, but not everything in it is true.

[Sanguinerd]

Why the fuck would they spoil their own game by writing things in Chronicles that have yet to come

[rhorle]

it might. titans can lie yes chronicle is cannon, but not everything in it is true.

It might is not the same thing as them saying it does. Lies can also be a part of the cannon. Everything in chronicles is cannon.

[iamthedevil]

Yeah sure you didn't, you literally made the argument the chronicle should have been this all knowing book then, with every detail etc., if it was supposed to be 100% canon, that argument is downright asinine.

It is technically 100% canon... from a Titan historians perspective. Sure they added that in later, but base it off realities and that's how the texts of history go, so i get it. I'm sure the Void Lords history book of the universe is much different.

[Yoshingo]

yes chronicle is cannon, but not everything in it is true.

What is untrue.

Name it.

Tell me what the canon has contradicted as untrue from Chronicle using the actual canon, not Pyromancer's dumbass pretzel logic fallacies.

[Sneaksies]

It might is not the same thing as them saying it does. Lies can also be a part of the cannon. Everything in chronicles is cannon.

yes. it is cannon. what are you getting at

[Bladesyphon]

if it was an "all knowing book" like everyone thought it was, it would mention those two things

What the what?

No..No it would not. Assuming Blizzard had already conceptualized 7.3 and 9.0 by that time (which is very possible they did not, given that Chronicle came out during a period where they had something very different planned for 7.3, and that Argus at the time was still likely in the potential "This may be an Expansion" phase that we heard about), they wouldn't outright spoil the conclusion of the literal next expansion, that would be mind numbingly stupid for them on every level.

No, the most likely scenario is the obvious one - At the time Chronicle was written, Blizzard did not know where the conclusion of Legion was going to go, and was still toying with the idea of making Argus an entire Expansion destination (which also means that the concept of Argus being a World Soul / Titan was still being debated as well), and they weren't going to write something down into the canon that very potentially may have been dropped on the cutting room floor.

The problem with Chronicle was that what they wrote in it, would lock them down into a permanent road of lore. It's something they clearly realized by the time Volume 3 came around, and came up with the concept of "Oh well it was written by the Titans" to give them the wiggle room they need to drop or change concepts that, down the road, may prevent them from creating new expansion locations that they think would be really cool.

Blizzard has stated MANY times in the past that while Lore is important to them, they will ALWAYS prioritize gameplay over it, and it's something I deeply respect about them, as it allows them to give us fun things, without having to worry about "Oh but the lore" like games such as FFXIV do. People like Pyro are essentially looking way too deep into what Blizzard is doing. They're literally giving themselves wiggle room to work, rather than having to adhere to a rigorous skeleton of a plot and continuity that may stifle creative concepts down the road.

[Sneaksies]

What is untrue.

Name it.

i gave a list earlier, you even quoted part of it

[Combatbutler]

no, what im saying is that because it didnt include those things means its not an "all knowing book" like alot of people thought it was

Which is exactly what I just accused you off. Making the asinine argument, that chronicle would need to contain everything in great detail to be considered the all knowing book. Which is downright insane, all Chronicle had to do was establish a 100% canon baseline with vague universe building which allows to later flesh things out as they go. That was chronicles purpose to streamline things and clear up the mess of lore, which it doesn't anymore.