FFXIV Is Unrewarding

[Swnem]

Quick glance at their numbers makes it seem like absolute bullshit. It's either outdated, the website doesn't update itself, or it's just wrong. Not to mention how the games have different numbers if you click on them for detailed stats.

It also tells me WoW has about 2-3 times the amount of players, so I dunno what you're talking about.

Edit: Looks like they get their data from guessing based on Reddit numbers, subscribers and active posters on the main subreddits. If you call that accurate data when comparing FFXIV and WoW, with WoW having a multitude of fansites that have been established since way before Reddit even existed (and WoW being what, 10 years older?), I don't know what to tell you.

It has updated, so i don't think so.

I would requote you my post and where i say it's impossible to know for sure. I didn't call it accurate as you claim, but i do call it one of the few data tools we got, and i find it very likely because during the raiding tier releases fflogs had to release the same ammount of servers they have for wowlogs. So, it is not unplausable to think that they are seeing similar numbers, with the difference that WoW is declining with BfA and Shadowbringers is bringing a lot of positive buzz.
So, while there is a bigger community for WoW due to all us players that still talk about it or make content, it is completely plausable with all the info we've known (also that time wow subs were leaked from an addon).

But hey, if the idea makes you nervous, you are free to call it bs. I don't care. Just wanted to show you that it's far from being a wild claim. WoW has declined a lot and anyone who has seen the servers die in BfA knows this.
But, if it makes you happy i do believe WoW has bigger spikes when new content or a new xpac releases cause of that big community.

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LOL.

FF14 deserves it's success for sure, but you're literally just saying lol I trust this random website with no actual data science or quality control to draw a conclusion from. Then you take this hilarious notion and try to spread it deliberately to push an agenda of spreading misinformation.

Lucky Bancho is as close to reasonable data we can get for FF14 (clearly defined methodologies/data points). I don't know of anything comparable for WoW, but even WoW at it's absolute lowest reported, then cut in half is still over double whatever FF14 has last I checked per Bancho.

That is literaly not what i said. Honestly, if it wasn't against the rules i'd say what that post is.

Honestly if we got with info you like, Bancho said there were 900k-1mill active players in FF (numbers from july 2019).
The last sub wow numbers leak was this that said 1.7m with 25% being double accounts, so ~ 1.3m active players (addon leak https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17624412636 )(numbers from October 2018). These numbers seem to be really close to the websites taking into account the declines we are seeing currently in content draughts and the buzz the games are getting.

Like, i'm the one that wants to lol at such reactions. Does it really bother you if WoW may not be the mmo with the most players anymore? Surely you know it's something that will happen eventually. The numbers are plausable, so i don't think they are far from the ballpark. But, you are free to spaz all you want. This is not something i find relevant to me. A wild claim was made, i refuted it as not as wild or unlikely as some might think, and it isn't. Wether you want to believe the website or use these other numbers you like more.

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Tried out the game recently...
How do you guys deal with that absurd 2.5 second GCD?

Get to max level, where you will have all your mechanics, procs, positionals and off global cooldowns skills. While trying to perfectly execute your rotation while doing mechanics you will eventually stop noticing it so much.
It's a harsh road and i hated it with a passion in the past, but at max level the combat feels good to me.

[Lodreh]

Hello there, Fellow FFXIV player here and I want to say LOL

This is no where NEAR as bad as "Warlords of Draenor" hell this isnt even "BFA" level of bad. This expansion is just fine. Its One of the best expansions to a MMO I played in a long time. It has good catch up mechanics, the raids are fun and interesting and the Savage Modes are hard, but fair. I LOVE this expansion way more than I did Heavensward.

This game does not need a mythic plus system. Dungeons should NOT reward Savage mode level gear. You get a chance at savage mode level gear from doing the weekly raid and even then its only 1 item per week and its not the best itemized except for a few slots. Dungeons serve their purpose as being ways to catch up to current content and get you ready for raid.

I agree PVP is lackluster but World PVP does not make sense for this game because we're all one faction. There is no opposing faction except for the Asciens.

New Game + Was meant to let you relive the story, but I agree, it shouldnt break progress cause you relog.

I agree it has a few problems but as far as expansions go, its one of my favorite. So much so Its the 1st expansion I did this in -

That's impressive, congrats

[Alaenore]

Tried out the game recently...
How do you guys deal with that absurd 2.5 second GCD?

It's actually one of the thing that make me like FFXIV combats more than WoW. It gets much faster when you have your cooldowns and oGCD abilities ready, which adds to the feeling you're actually doing *something*. Spamming buttons has never been fun, i like having to think about my rotation and how to use my ogcd, dodging stuff and where to position, etc.

[KrayZ33]

It's the worst. People will try to tell you that it becomes fast paced as you level and get more out of GCD abilities but for the most part they are not spammable abilities, usually things with a bit of a cooldown from 10s to 30s so it gets faster but not as spammy as WoW.

To be fair, "fast paced" is a term that's different for everyone.
Classes are way closer to the 1 action per second mark than they are to the 1 action every 2,5 second mark though.
I mean, it's not like people can't look it up and compare it themselves in the end.
There are some (very few) DPS classes/specs in WoW that are actually slower than the fast(est) DPS specs in FF14.

To some degree you could even argue that the sheer amount of skills/procs/cooldowns you have to watch and keep in mind when playing FFXIV lead to you thinking the spec is actually faster than it is in reality.

Either way, whether I spam my keys 20 times a second to do 2 things or 1 thing, I will still hit the keys 20 times.

[Rogalicus]

That sounds like something a lominsan or a pirate would say

You are comparing Koji Fox's liberal translaction to other cases of his liberal translations and say that they are in line. Duh.

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What did it for me was going from having 4 or so meaningful abilities in WoW to 30+.

Well, if you count spreading each of your rotational buttons to 3 buttons pressed in strict succession, then also count buttons you press once in the beginning of the fight or oGCD that do nothing but damage on long cooldowns and then also magically make all WoW's non-rotational buttons (such as CC) meaningless, then yeah, you get that statement.

[Graeham]

Doesn't really bother me as I don't go into different games expecting similar experiences to other ones I play. I play some of the fastest specs in WoW but still enjoy FFXIV's combat system.

GCDs become less of an issue past 40-60 anyway.

This.

Do the people who complain about the GCD not play games other than WoW or something? I just adapt to the systems in place in pretty much any game I tackle, so I fully expect Dark Souls to play differently to FFXIV which in turn plays differently to Stardew Valley which in turn plays differently to The Witcher 3 and so on.

[leviathonlx]

FF14 is a solid alternative to WoW, and it does some things much better. It is okay, even intended, if you do not play or sub every day of the year.

Yea I just keep a sub going with both games and bounce between them. Both games have issues with different areas though I personally prefer WoW for longer periods of time since I do like having outdoor content to do on my alts when not raiding on my main or doing world pvp on my main especially during Invasions. I do think the tribalism of MMO's gets tiring where people act like it's wrong to enjoy either game.

[Graeham]

You are comparing Koji Fox's liberal translaction to other cases of his liberal translations and say that they are in line. Duh.

What's the issue with that particular the line of dialogue? I'm confused.

[Uko]

You sound like you want a pvp game and that is not what ffxiv is or ever will be and would only take a quick google search to know that. Pvp games are generally super toxic and that is the opposite of the player base in ffxiv so I am glad it treats pvp like an afterthought.

[Wrecktangle]

Honestly if we got with info you like, Bancho said there were 900k-1mill active players in FF (numbers from july 2019).
The last sub wow numbers leak was this that said 1.7m with 25% being double accounts, so ~ 1.3m active players (addon leak https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17624412636 )(numbers from October 2018). These numbers seem to be really close to the websites taking into account the declines we are seeing currently in content draughts and the buzz the games are getting.

You know that Weakauras published an official statement saying this info was inaccurate right?

Like, i'm the one that wants to lol at such reactions. Does it really bother you if WoW may not be the mmo with the most players anymore? Surely you know it's something that will happen eventually. The numbers are plausable, so i don't think they are far from the ballpark. But, you are free to spaz all you want. This is not something i find relevant to me. A wild claim was made, i refuted it as not as wild or unlikely as some might think, and it isn't. Wether you want to believe the website or use these other numbers you like more.

Doesn't bother me at all. I genuinely hope one day that FF14 becomes the #1 MMO. I want nothing more than this game to succeed. I just don't think it's good enough to do it right now. I think it has the right IP and the idea to do it easily, it just lacks vision.

I don't think their wide, but shallow content development pipeline is the most intelligent use of their dev resources. I think they should focus on very narrow concepts and make them very robust, deep, scalable and enjoyable by more than any given niche subset of players (think the comparison of a very shallow lake, vs. a very deep hole). That's my personal opinion though.

I just don't enjoy when people spread misinformation with poor insight/evidence. It's disingenuous to real discussion. Keep in mind before you accuse me of anything that I'm not even subbed to WoW right now.

It's actually one of the thing that make me like FFXIV combats more than WoW. It gets much faster when you have your cooldowns and oGCD abilities ready, which adds to the feeling you're actually doing *something*. Spamming buttons has never been fun, i like having to think about my rotation and how to use my ogcd, dodging stuff and where to position, etc.

You don't really have to think about your rotation for MOST jobs, especially the melee ones. Most oGCDs are press on cooldown no thought necessary buttons and heavily redundant with other OGCDs. Most combos have exactly one specific order press and no way or reason to do it any other way.

I'd be ok with the speed of FF14 if the buttons were more varied/interesting. WoW may have cut way too many (and they did), but a lot of my buttons have genuine depth and synergy. I cannot say the same for many, really if any of my FF14 buttons.

[Hyral]

You are comparing Koji Fox's liberal translaction to other cases of his liberal translations and say that they are in line. Duh.

Koji didn't invent pirates, boors, or scoundrels so I'm not comparing it to any of his previous work but rather to archetypes that already exist and are mostly based on reality.

It's an offensive line delivered by what most likely is, at best, a poorly educated peasant or, at worst, a person who steals, murders and rapes for a living. So no, there's nothing off about that line depending on the character who delivers it. Though you still haven't even revealed that. And again if it was coming from a character that it would be wholly uncharacteristically for them to say something like that you would have a point and I would agree with you, but there's no such evidence yet.

[Swnem]

You know that Weakauras published an official statement saying this info was inaccurate right?



Doesn't bother me at all. I genuinely hope one day that FF14 becomes the #1 MMO. I want nothing more than this game to succeed. I just don't think it's good enough to do it right now. I think it has the right IP and the idea to do it easily, it just lacks vision.

I don't think their wide, but shallow content development pipeline is the most intelligent use of their dev resources. I think they should focus on very narrow concepts and make them very robust, deep, scalable and enjoyable by more than any given niche subset of players (think the comparison of a very shallow lake, vs. a very deep hole). That's my personal opinion though.

I just don't enjoy when people spread misinformation with poor insight/evidence. It's disingenuous to real discussion. Keep in mind before you accuse me of anything that I'm not even subbed to WoW right now.

.

I mean, of course they did. Cause they were in trouble with Blizz. But, i doubt the numbers weren't somewhat in the ballpark.
As i said at the start, there is no way to know for sure, but it sounds plausable to me given all the developments that have come to pass. It seems to fit, but hey you got your opinion and i got mine. The end of the matter is that we don't know for sure and if you got a problem with that data you should bring it up with the website. I reported on it, i didn't make it up.

[Seranthor]

I mean, of course they did. Cause they were in trouble with Blizz. But, i doubt the numbers weren't somewhat in the ballpark.
As i said at the start, there is no way to know for sure, but it sounds plausable to me given all the developments that have come to pass. It seems to fit, but hey you got your opinion and i got mine. The end of the matter is that we don't know for sure and if you got a problem with that data you should bring it up with the website. I reported on it, i didn't make it up.

Sure, its 'plausable', because you want to believe those numbers... It's also plausable that explorers find a unicorn in the wild that farts rainbows.

[leviathonlx]

Why do you people even keep interacting with him lol

[Irian]

Why do you people even keep interacting with him lol

"Don't feed the troll" isn't really an option when there are enough dense people on these forums that will actually agree with him. This forum is full of people trying to get away with thinly veiled baits and then other people arguing over said baits, it's honestly really pathetic.

tl;dr Poe's Law.

[Swnem]

Sure, its 'plausable', because you want to believe those numbers... It's also plausable that explorers find a unicorn in the wild that farts rainbows.

Obviously i'm not the one taking it personally. I didn't make up the numbers, so take it up with whoever did. Because honestly, it is so easy to turn that back at you. You don't want them to be believable cause you want WoW to be on top. Doh... leave the bs at the door. If you can't deal with it, it's your problem.

[Rogalicus]

Koji didn't invent pirates, boors, or scoundrels so I'm not comparing it to any of his previous work but rather to archetypes that already exist and are mostly based on reality.

He's not script writer, he's translator. He's intentionally mistranslating text to turn normal speech into primitive "ahoy me hearties" caricature. There are tons of such examples, including famous Midgardsormr scene in 2.5 story where clear script became such a cryptic mess that most people completely misunderstood his motives.

[Swnem]

"Don't feed the troll" isn't really an option when there are enough dense people on these forums that will actually agree with him. This forum is full of people trying to get away with thinly veiled baits and then other people arguing over said baits, it's honestly really pathetic.

tl;dr Poe's Law.

Yes, how dare i bring up something that makes WoW look bad on mmo-champ?. You know, it's the same thing people say to me on the FF forums when i dare to voice dissent. Different forum, same mentality. "If you don't agree with me you're trolling". It's the internet hive mind. My apologies that i am immune to it. You are very free to ignore me as i do some of you. Close your ears and pretend the world is flat for all i care.

The story here is someone said "no way WoW can have less players" with nothing to back that statement. I say "actually there are sources that say it may be the case". Posters like you: "what a troll!". Like, what is wrong with you? Everyone knows WoW is in decline yet you want the rest of us to play dumb and accept uncorroborated assertions? No, dude, the problem is you.
If you think WoW has more players lets see the evidence then. Enough of this nonsense.

[Irian]

You do realize that the person you quoted is talking about you, right?

They were talking about the OP I'm pretty sure. His entire post history is almost nothing but bait posts about FFXIV.

Alternatively, that guy who keeps arguing in this thread. I haven't been. I'm not really sure what would make you consider it's me.

[Seranthor]

Obviously i'm not the one taking it personally. I didn't make up the numbers, so take it up with whoever did. Because honestly, it is so easy to turn that back at you. You don't want them to be believable cause you want WoW to be on top. Doh... leave the bs at the door. If you can't deal with it, it's your problem.

Your claim of 'You want Wow to be on top' and those numbers have the same point of origin. Someone's ass. It's okay to be intellectually dishonest, I dont mind. Just drop the charade of pretending you are being honest. Attempting to pass off made up numbers as fact isn't going to work with me... So drop it and walk away.