Unpopular Opinions: WoW Edition

[Relapses]

Oof...so you start with a straw man? The open world being neglected due to an over-focus on raiding doesn't mean "add more WQs". In fact, WQs are the result of that neglect, and something that would badly need to be improved.

And while I don't personally like raiding as a concept, that's not the argument I'm making like you did with your example of pet battles. I'm saying that Blizzard has spent too much dev time on raiding, and that has caused other areas of the game to suffer. This isn't the same as "I don't like raiding so remove.it".

As for the zero sum game: I already pointed out that the WoW team is likely the largest and most well-funded MMO team in the world(as far as we know). And yet they still can't manage to provide a decent open world(see the WQ example).

"Remove all raiding" was perhaps hyperbolic, and maybe I should have instead said "remove raiding the primary and dominant focus of the game."

And you're correct that SL appears to be deviating from that formula. But it remains to be see in a live release. Blizzard has a habit of cutting things shown or hinted at during convention presentations.

...your initial post was, literally, "raids shouldn't exist." Now you're adding all these different stipulations to what you actually meant that I'm not sure why you bothered to say that in the first place.

You can accuse me of using strawmans all you want but you haven't provided any suggestions for what Blizzard should do with the resources they save by eliminating raids, just this nebulous notion that because they have a huge budget they should be able to figure it out on their own. Sorry dude, you're using a lot of mental gymnastics to support an idea I don't think you thought through the first time you said it. That's cool, I do that too sometimes. But there's a fine line between a controversial opinion and one which simply begs ridicule. The idea that Blizzard ditches raiding falls firmly in the latter camp.

That said, this is getting a tad pedantic for my taste. I'm gonna tap out here. See ya in the next anti-Blizzard echo chamber, friend.

[apples]

blizzard is the sole reason why humanity has ills and only by destroying blizzard totally can we prevent the complete destruction of humankind

[Relapses]

blizzard is the sole reason why humanity has ills and only by destroying blizzard totally can we prevent the complete destruction of humankind

Blizzard is the T-virus. I knew it!

[Kaichu]

The WoD leveling experience (for the Horde, at least) was awesome. One of the best so far.

[Relapses]

The WoD leveling experience (for the Horde, at least) was awesome. One of the best so far.

I wouldn't call that an unpopular opinion. Most people really enjoyed leveling in WoD (and still do). Its issues were squarely at max level.

[SirCowdog]

...your initial post was, literally, "raids shouldn't exist." Now you're adding all these different stipulations to what you actually meant that I'm not sure why you bothered to say that in the first place.

You can accuse me of using strawmans all you want but you haven't provided any suggestions for what Blizzard should do with the resources they save by eliminating raids, just this nebulous notion that because they have a huge budget they should be able to figure it out on their own. Sorry dude, you're using a lot of mental gymnastics to support an idea I don't think you thought through the first time you said it. That's cool, I do that too sometimes. But there's a fine line between a controversial opinion and one which simply begs ridicule. The idea that Blizzard ditches raiding falls firmly in the latter camp.

That said, this is getting a tad pedantic for my taste. I'm gonna tap out here. See ya in the next anti-Blizzard echo chamber, friend.

Pot meet kettle.

You and I arguing about how the game could be made better isn't exactly an "anti-blizzard echo chamber.

But you're right, this is going nowhere. Im not sure why I took you off ignore. You're almost as bad as Dhrizzle for twisting meaning.

[Lane]

So as I said: Either blizzard needs to give up and focus entirely on raiding, or they need to cut back on it and actually make real attempts at other forms of content.

I think they could do a better job re-purposing raid assets. Either like Rift's Chronicles or Withered Training. I did Redridge on retail the other day for the first time in years and having a party of elites to quest with was pretty fun, made me wish that was an option for other types of content.

I disagree. I think the First War is the perfect place to start. It's the natural beginning of the story and sets a lot of past and present world building up.

I still don't believe the film would have been commercially successful even with a perfectly executed version of the First War. Even though orcs vs. humans is the basis of WoW it's not a story I particularly cared to see on the big screen and I'm more of the target audience than Random Moviegoer who's never heard of Warcraft. Aiming for a trilogy was far too ambitious too, they needed to focus on an amazing stand-alone film first without thinking that they'd have a second let alone a third to continue the story.

Frankly, I wouldn't have even put Warcraft in the title because that's going to drive off a significant amount of people who aren't interested in watching a movie based on a video game they never played (not to mention the stigma on video game movies). A title like "Rise of the Lich King" probably would've brought in a more diverse audience. Plus, it might've been more budget friendly since a lot could have been done with makeup and prosthetics saving CGI for backgrounds and spell effects.

It's more that I think the fall of Arthas would've been a simpler story to tell, cost less money, and had a broader appeal.

[therealstegblob]

I still don't believe the film would have been commercially successful even with a perfectly executed version of the First War. Even though orcs vs. humans is the basis of WoW it's not a story I particularly cared to see on the big screen and I'm more of the target audience than Random Moviegoer who's never heard of Warcraft. Aiming for a trilogy was far too ambitious too, they needed to focus on an amazing stand-alone film first without thinking that they'd have a second let alone a third to continue the story.

Frankly, I wouldn't have even put Warcraft in the title because that's going to drive off a significant amount of people who aren't interested in watching a movie based on a video game they never played (not to mention the stigma on video game movies). A title like "Rise of the Lich King" probably would've brought in a more diverse audience. Plus, it might've been more budget friendly since a lot could have been done with makeup and prosthetics saving CGI for backgrounds and spell effects.

It's more that I think the fall of Arthas would've been a simpler story to tell, cost less money, and had a broader appeal.

Dude if you think a (good) First War film would flop, then I'm mystified as to how you believe an Arthas film would do any better? "Rise of the Lich King" sounds horribly generic, and has none of the massive brand recognition that Warcraft has. Not to mention, trying to tell the Lich King's story with literally none of the world building established from prior films that would be able to do it much more naturally than in wanton exposition dumps, is just kind of a dumb idea.

[Lane]

Dude if you think a (good) First War film would flop, then I'm mystified as to how you believe an Arthas film would do any better? "Rise of the Lich King" sounds horribly generic, and has none of the massive brand recognition that Warcraft has. Not to mention, trying to tell the Lich King's story with literally none of the world building established from prior films that would be able to do it much more naturally than in wanton exposition dumps, is just kind of a dumb idea.

Personal preference. If I knew nothing about Warcraft I'd have zero interest in seeing an orcs vs. humans film, but I'd probably go see one about a paladin prince turned undead king.

I'm still not convinced brand recognition is a plus when it comes to adapting a video game as a film either. Anyone who's into Warcraft will know about it anyway without deterring those who'd be put off by it. I also don't see that exposition dumps would be necessary. Books adapted to film have a ton of stuff cut out and Warcraft would be no different.

[SirCowdog]

I think they could do a better job re-purposing raid assets. Either like Rift's Chronicles or Withered Training. I did Redridge on retail the other day for the first time in years and having a party of elites to quest with was pretty fun, made me wish that was an option for other types of content.

Agreed. Blizzard is leaving a LOT of potential on the table. Which I think is an aspect of their formula where each patch invalidates everything previous. As MoanaLisa detailed earlier in the thread, it's also an aspect of how slow of a development process Blizzard has. It doesn't leave them much time to revisit things.

Which, to me, seems counter intuitive. If they've got a shortage of development time, it seems like re-using or re-purposing older aspects of the game would add an economy or efficiency that's badly needed. We see a little bit of that in Torghast and nightmares, but there's still a LOT left they could be using.

[dontruinwow]

GCD is a good change for the game. Even grandma can play wow now!

[Kaver]

The extreme is created by Blizzard by spending too many resources, and revolving the entire game around raiding for too long. You can see the results in the last few expansions: Other areas of the game suffer, both by being underdeveloped, and by Blizzard's lack of practice at doing anything good besides raiding.

So either Blizzard needs to focus on what they're good at(raiding) and make the entire game about that again, or they need to cut raiding and start spending a LOT of time practicing at making other areas of the game decent. They've got the largest MMO dev team on the planet, and probably the largest budget too. And yet somehow they can't manage to juggle everything, even with such advantages.

By “extremes” i was referring to the ultimatum.

“Either this or this”.

“Either black or white”

Right now the game functions decently with Raids, M+ and PvP. There are definitely room for improvement but that doesn’t mean they have to cut any of it out.

What parts of the game do you specifically thinks that suffers?

[Elyiandris]

- Voidlords are a terrible idea and Sargeras is and always should be Warcraft's endgame
- Xal'altath is the only remotely interesting old god
- Magic in Warcraft was much more interesting before Chronicles
- Burning Crusade was a terrible expansion

[SirCowdog]

By “extremes” i was referring to the ultimatum.

“Either this or this”.

“Either black or white”

Right now the game functions decently with Raids, M+ and PvP. There are definitely room for improvement but that doesn’t mean they have to cut any of it out.

What parts of the game do you specifically thinks that suffers?

It's funny that the things you say are making the game function "decently" are all instanced content. Islands, Warfronts, and even the upcoming nightmares are all instanced.

What's suffering is the WORLD. Specifically the open areas. Are we playing World of Instancecraft?

I think this is part of why Classic has been as popular as it is. It brings back that element of being in a larger world instead of just instance-hopping.

[Big Thanks]

It's funny that the things you say are making the game function "decently" are all instanced content. Islands, Warfronts, and even the upcoming nightmares are all instanced.

What's suffering is the WORLD. Specifically the open areas. Are we playing World of Instancecraft?

I think this is part of why Classic has been as popular as it is. It brings back that element of being in a larger world instead of just instance-hopping.

Making world content means unlimited players can flood the world.
I would LOVE new exciting world content...but Blizzard would need to optimize the game in order to do it.

Maybe a cap to number of players present in one zone...which is the same as being instanced...

[Archmage Xaxxas]

Combat Skills should remain in the game.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Pet Battles would work perfectly as a mobile game and would get me to play that feature more if available.

[Nerovar]

Legion was shit and the game is best when Blizzard doesn't bother with designing overly complicated systems that are supposed to reinvent the wheel but puts that effort into regular content (meaning raids, dungeons etc.), class design, interesting itemization instead. Usually, the shit that bothers people the most are the new things they bring to the game whereas PvP/raid/dungeon content is always enjoyed by the playerbase.

[Nobar]

The more MMO (and the less RPG) wow becomes, the better the game gets.

[zehzao]

I really enjoyed the beginning of Cata.