[TV] Watchmen

[Zaktar]

Flashbacks/dealing with character history are also a significant element of the comic, so pretty fair in this case.

[Relapses]

Finally, the Dr. M episode.

This episode did not leave me shaking like the last one but that last scene was fucking awesome. (Before the credits.) I really enjoyed the non linear storytelling, too. I got some Tarantino vibes from this episode. Anyway, questions are slowly being answered and I'm pumped for the finale.

Thoughts: I'm kinda hoping that it stays at one season because this really does have a mini series feel to it. But I know HBO is looking for the next big thing to replace GoT... I really just don't want an episodification of this series.

Also, thoughts on Dr. M's appearance? The actor did a great job but some of it felt kind of cheap. Not cheap enough to detract from the story but still a confusing decision given I'm sure they could have fixed it in post. I prefer the movie's Dr. M.

[eschatological]

Brilliant television, again. This series is knocking it out of the fucking park for me.

I think the only time the CGI looked cheap was when they tried to have the original actor's eyebrows on his blue-skinned self. Should have just made him new eyebrows, even if they didn't match the actor.

[IIamaKing]

Finally all the eggs in the first few episodes make sense!!! Also Dr. M seems to have made a thing to pass his powers on prior to his "demise".

[eschatological]

Yeah, I think it's in the waffles. I'm guessing the oldest kid is gonna eat the waffles, maybe?

Also, in re: Ozymandias: It seems that Dr. Manhattan probably told him he'd be trapped there until he got the horseshoe.......so every day he's hoping beyond hope for the horseshoe, and never gets it....and then right at his true moment of despair, when he is ready to die: it arrives. And it not only serves its symbolic purpose, but might also be the physical means of his escape. That kind of tells me he'll be involved at the end, as well.

[draynay]

I'm gonna have to watch Ep. 8 again, because it seems like everybody liked it but I just thought it was a bunch of Lindelof writer's wank that did little to further the plot. Not sure what I'm missing.

[Algorath]

Hiya lads, anyone up for a chat about this new episode?

Am I the only one that can't stand this rendition of Dr Manhattan? There was a couple of lukewarm moments that were pretty decent, but all-in-all I feel like they fell short of portraying this character. Granted, I imagine it being super hard to write dialogues with a God that witnesses all time in one point of time, but there were really some big flaws in this episode.
1) First of all, the effects. Sure, effects are expensive, but come on! Everything Dr Manhattan looked like it fit better in a 1999 PS1 game rather than a 2019 series.
2) Secondly, while we're on effects, why does Dr Manhattan glow when using his abilities? And not while he doesn't. Originally, Dr Manhattan glows naturally, and can focus on suppressing the glow not the other way round.
3) If Dr Manhattan lost his ability to use his abilities by having this ring implemented in his forehead, would that not mean he would lose the ability to take on the form of Cal also?
4) You don't exactly see Dr. Manhattan's face before his transformation to Cal, so it's hard to say whats going on here. But why is he just a Blue-Cal after being freed again? Did he look like that before? Did he forget how he looked before, and just is a hybrid of Cal and his blue form from before? If so, why go blue again? Kinda like the Chicken or Egg question - What came first? The Cal appearance or the blue appearance? Both scenarios don't make sense.
5) I can't remember the specific quotes, but at one point, Dr Manhattan rebukes Abar, by saying he doesn't see the future, he lives it - However! Later in the episode he says he's looking into this dark-spot of having this implant and can't see anything. Sloppy writing that is counterproductive to the characters main essence of being this distant being that perceives differently to normal chronological beings.

Here's a couple of points I took note of while watching it, there's probably a few more I kinda forgot along the way. Overall I was super psyched for this reveal and was pretty disappointed all around. From the voice, to the effects and script etc, it all seemed not high quality enough to make work. Very difficult character to pull off though. I'd love to hear what you lot think, especially if you can rebuke the points I made

[Skizzit]

Why start a new thread? One already exists: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...40-TV-Watchmen

[Algorath]

Am I the only one that can't stand this rendition of Dr Manhattan? There was a couple of lukewarm moments that were pretty decent, but all-in-all I feel like they fell short of portraying this character. Granted, I imagine it being super hard to write dialogues with a God that witnesses all time in one point of time, but there were really some big flaws in this episode.
1) First of all, the effects. Sure, effects are expensive, but come on! Everything Dr Manhattan looked like it fit better in a 1999 PS1 game rather than a 2019 series.
2) Secondly, while we're on effects, why does Dr Manhattan glow when using his abilities? And not while he doesn't. Originally, Dr Manhattan glows naturally, and can focus on suppressing the glow not the other way round.
3) If Dr Manhattan lost his ability to use his abilities by having this ring implemented in his forehead, would that not mean he would lose the ability to take on the form of Cal also?
4) You don't exactly see Dr. Manhattan's face before his transformation to Cal, so it's hard to say whats going on here. But why is he just a Blue-Cal after being freed again? Did he look like that before? Did he forget how he looked before, and just is a hybrid of Cal and his blue form from before? If so, why go blue again? Kinda like the Chicken or Egg question - What came first? The Cal appearance or the blue appearance? Both scenarios don't make sense.
5) I can't remember the specific quotes, but at one point, Dr Manhattan rebukes Abar, by saying he doesn't see the future, he lives it - However! Later in the episode he says he's looking into this dark-spot of having this implant and can't see anything. Sloppy writing that is counterproductive to the characters main essence of being this distant being that perceives differently to normal chronological beings.

Here's a couple of points I took note of while watching it, there's probably a few more I kinda forgot along the way. Overall I was super psyched for this reveal and was pretty disappointed all around. From the voice, to the effects and script etc, it all seemed not high quality enough to make work. Very difficult character to pull off though. I'd love to hear what you lot think, especially if you can rebuke the points I made

[Algorath]

Why start a new thread? One already exists: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...40-TV-Watchmen

Clicked on it, saw it was about a trailer to the series before it came out, thought it was ancient. Good talk.

[Algorath]

You should learn to look beyond the first post.

Give me 32.000 wastes of time to catch up, and I may get that far buddy boy.

[eschatological]

Am I the only one that can't stand this rendition of Dr Manhattan? There was a couple of lukewarm moments that were pretty decent, but all-in-all I feel like they fell short of portraying this character. Granted, I imagine it being super hard to write dialogues with a God that witnesses all time in one point of time, but there were really some big flaws in this episode.
1) First of all, the effects. Sure, effects are expensive, but come on! Everything Dr Manhattan looked like it fit better in a 1999 PS1 game rather than a 2019 series.
2) Secondly, while we're on effects, why does Dr Manhattan glow when using his abilities? And not while he doesn't. Originally, Dr Manhattan glows naturally, and can focus on suppressing the glow not the other way round.
3) If Dr Manhattan lost his ability to use his abilities by having this ring implemented in his forehead, would that not mean he would lose the ability to take on the form of Cal also?
4) You don't exactly see Dr. Manhattan's face before his transformation to Cal, so it's hard to say whats going on here. But why is he just a Blue-Cal after being freed again? Did he look like that before? Did he forget how he looked before, and just is a hybrid of Cal and his blue form from before? If so, why go blue again? Kinda like the Chicken or Egg question - What came first? The Cal appearance or the blue appearance? Both scenarios don't make sense.
5) I can't remember the specific quotes, but at one point, Dr Manhattan rebukes Abar, by saying he doesn't see the future, he lives it - However! Later in the episode he says he's looking into this dark-spot of having this implant and can't see anything. Sloppy writing that is counterproductive to the characters main essence of being this distant being that perceives differently to normal chronological beings.

Here's a couple of points I took note of while watching it, there's probably a few more I kinda forgot along the way. Overall I was super psyched for this reveal and was pretty disappointed all around. From the voice, to the effects and script etc, it all seemed not high quality enough to make work. Very difficult character to pull off though. I'd love to hear what you lot think, especially if you can rebuke the points I made

I mean, a lot of these are answered in the episode.

For 1), I just think it's the product of CGIing a matte blue person. The glow can cover up a lot in, for example, the movie. It's kind of like the blue genie effect from the live action Aladdin earlier this year.

For 2), it seems like Doc just does what he wants. He glows naturally, but it's not like suppressing the glow is a difficult thing he has to constantly focus on.

3) Ozymandias explains this pretty clearly in the episode: He doesn't lose his powers, he merely forgets who he is and that he has powers. Again, looking like who he is, or not glowing, etc, is not some spell he has to concentrate. It's a switch he flipped, he doesn't actively need to be Dr. Manhattan to maintain it.

4) Again, Regina seems to clearly indicate that he's changed - that he's kept Cal's face, after she removes the ring. She's astonished and gratified for that. The implication is that when she met him in the bar, he looked like his traditional, Jon Osterman self. That's why she offered him a bunch of white men to transform into, and he reminded her that he could be anyone he needed to be, so he should be someone she was comfortable with. This is why we don't see his face in the bar, before he transforms into human Cal. The blue-ness seems to simply be the natural expression of Doctor Manhattan.

5) He's simply saying he can't experience his life in the blank spot before it happens. Note that he says that before the chronological living of it. Doctor Cal will probably now have that blank spot filled in, much like he constantly lived his childhood as a human child even though he had no powers back then.

It seems like you just need to watch the show with more attention. These questions were all answered.

[Relapses]

I'm gonna have to watch Ep. 8 again, because it seems like everybody liked it but I just thought it was a bunch of Lindelof writer's wank that did little to further the plot. Not sure what I'm missing.

I mean, it was a little bit ... but that's like another Lindelof trademark. A lot of his work is very self referential. Have you seen The Leftovers? I don't think it's a bad thing when it isn't overly heavy handed (see: later seasons of Lost). I didn't like this episode nearly as much as I did the one before it but it didn't feel unnecessary and it's definitely set the stage for an interesting finale.

Where the fuck is Lube Man?

- - - Updated - - -

It seems like you just need to watch the show with more attention. These questions were all answered.

Playing Devil's Advocate: This is the same problem Westworld had (has?). For those of us who love to post on forums and read theories, everything makes sense. We get to see the fruits of our collective labor play out when fan theories are either confirmed or denied. But for casual viewers, it might be a bit much to ask. Not everybody likes doing homework. I guess there's a bit of a disconnect because you'd imagine you wouldn't expect to find a whole lot of casual viewers expressing concerns on fan forums like this but it still deserves to be said. There's a reason Michael Bay movies print money.

[draynay]

I mean, it was a little bit ... but that's like another Lindelof trademark. A lot of his work is very self referential. Have you seen The Leftovers?

No, Watchmen is me trying to give Lindelof a chance even though I've hated everything I've ever seen from him. This episode made it that much harder, despite my fondness for the comic.

[Relapses]

No, Watchmen is me trying to give Lindelof a chance even though I've hated everything I've ever seen from him. This episode made it that much harder, despite my fondness for the comic.

Fair enough. I'm surprised you made it all the way to this episode if that's the case!

[eschatological]

Playing Devil's Advocate: This is the same problem Westworld had (has?). For those of us who love to post on forums and read theories, everything makes sense. We get to see the fruits of our collective labor play out when fan theories are either confirmed or denied. But for casual viewers, it might be a bit much to ask. Not everybody likes doing homework. I guess there's a bit of a disconnect because you'd imagine you wouldn't expect to find a whole lot of casual viewers expressing concerns on fan forums like this but it still deserves to be said. There's a reason Michael Bay movies print money.

The answers were in the episode. I'm not saying you need to post on forums or read theories. Angela looked at Dr. M with wonder when he came back and said, "You kept his face."

[draynay]

I don't think there is any deeper symbolism to keeping Cal's face beyond not having to cast someone else and avoiding conflict with the movie version by it not being Billy Crudup.

[Zaktar]

Finally got to watch this one. The effects were fine, though non-glow Cal with normal eyes looked more silly than anything, but otherwise I don't get what people don't like.

Really enjoyed the storytelling for this episode, the barest sense of seeing time through Jon's eyes. I suppose telling us he could pass his powers on to someone else was some kind of foreshadowing, but killing him doesn't seem like the play, more likely that Angela would die and Jon will move on yet again. The show will no doubt surprise however! Am still very curious as to what crashed in that yard on the property Trieu purchased. Something related to Ozymandias? How did she know when to be there?

Jon's characterization felt a little off, a little too warm at times. The moment where we get a flashback to Ozymandias explaining that Jon will use his powers if in danger felt unnecessary and too on the nose. We got it. But then reading the thread maybe they need to handhold more than I think.

The chicken and the egg of their relationship interests me, what, beyond his knowledge of the future, would motivate him to walk into the bar in the first place? But perhaps that's partly why they introduce the paradox with her grandfather and the police captain. To explicitly show us that when Jon is involved sometimes that foreknowledge is all that is required.

[Bryntrollian]

Wow, this was such a great episode!

[eschatological]

The chicken and the egg of their relationship interests me, what, beyond his knowledge of the future, would motivate him to walk into the bar in the first place? But perhaps that's partly why they introduce the paradox with her grandfather and the police captain. To explicitly show us that when Jon is involved sometimes that foreknowledge is all that is required.

I'm kind of interested in the fact that his ex, Silk Spectre, is locked in the basement of the 7K where he's being teleported to. How does Dr. Manhattan even explain that he fell in love with Angela but couldn't be asked to give a shit about Laurie all those years ago? That's gonna be crushing, for her, seeing as she's constantly phoning him.

Like, how does a god love one person specifically? To me, him not being in love with Laurie Blake in the comics/movie makes sense - how now do you explain him actually being in love?

Of course, unless him "being in love" with Angela is another means to an end - to pass on his powers, and die.