Fine with Sylvanas

[Aeula]

lol, I’m sure

Seems to be working.

[Lolites]

more beneficial the Undeath.

beneficial how? Godfrey and others actualy thought "better undead than worgen" so doesnt seem to be any better...

ok, now "So yes, let the void elfs cease to be when they age and pass away and let same happen to worgen while humans and high/blood elfs continue."
i would kind of agree, BUT, there is a bit off a difference between "leting them die out" and HELPING IT! if thats ok, then attack on gilneas (killing worgen) was ok too, just bcs they are worgen, and wiping worgen would stop spreading the curse...

[VladlTutushkin]

beneficial how? Godfrey and others actualy thought "better undead than worgen" so doesnt seem to be any better...

ok, now "So yes, let the void elfs cease to be when they age and pass away and let same happen to worgen while humans and high/blood elfs continue."
i would kind of agree, BUT, there is a bit off a difference between "leting them die out" and HELPING IT! if thats ok, then attack on gilneas (killing worgen) was ok too, just bcs they are worgen...

Godrey was just a racist and snobbish prick who hated all things “beastial”. Worgen curse gives you - strength, speed and agility of a large wolf, sense of a wolf and at the same time you remain as intelligent and skilled as you were human and can still use magic for example or build and use engineering tools. So its like Werewolf but smart. Also it makes you capable of Druidism on much deeper level them usual humans (aside form kul’tirans who interbred with drust as one point). Downside is apparently an anger issues which can be obviously controlled as we see in game since “worgen rage” only brought up in completely feral packs who were additionally corrupted or not touched by night elf elune magic (which is avaliable to Alliance). So its not much of a downside while Undeath makes your existance horrid, causes a depression and dooms your soul to the Maw on principle. Also apparently you fall apart after a hug or whatever.
About killing - if undead stop making more undead then nobody would have much of a reason to attack them really.

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Where was that ever confirmed?

Not to mention every single part of the Shadowlands seems pretty shitty.

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Alright now that is funny.

It is a common theory or rather understanding of all undead “seeing darkness” or some kind of super shitty horror place when they die.

[Life-Binder]

What do you think?

best character in WoW since Cairnes death

[Varodoc]

We don't know if being a void elf can be reduced to having a particular condition. The worgen form is a condition because their children are humans, but we don't know if the offspring of void elves are blood elves or void elves. It could be that void elves have been changed at a biological level in a much more radical way than the worgen.

[Lolites]

Godrey was just a racist and snobbish prick who hated all things “beastial”. Worgen curse gives you - strength, speed and agility of a large wolf, sense of a wolf and at the same time you remain as intelligent and skilled as you were human and can still use magic for example or build and use engineering tools. So its like Werewolf but smart.

being undead you are capable of all those things, and it gives you imunity to diseases and mild resistance to magic, and unlimited breath, also you are capable of withstanding injuries that would be fatal to human, and surely boosts your strenght too (how else would they fight when they miss some muscles?)

"dooms your soul to the Maw" - source please, bcs as far as i know this is your invention, it wasnt mentioned by blizzard at all, actualy necromancy is tied to maldraxxus, not to maw...
"Also apparently you fall apart after a hug or whatever." pure creative writing on your side, if they are able to fight, they sure dont fall apart from huging...
"if undead stop making more undead then nobody would have much of a reason to attack them really." - yeah, bcs everybody was so friendly towards them since vanila to cataclysme when they had no way of creating new undead...

so i guess "genocide" of worgen would be fine, after all only difference to what Genn did to undead would be the speed at which they would be done...
and wiping worgen would stop the curse completely, so i only difference between genocide of worgen and breaking that lamp is it would be faster

[Minikin]

I have her as my avatar mostly to provoke a reaction.

oh that is a funny way to say tactical retreat

[Mehrunes]

I did not counter your constant attacks ("schooling" hahahah) because I did not feel it was worth the time to write. You have made clear that you will never accept counter-arguments anyway. Argueing with someone that has already made up his headcannon and will not waver from it is only amusing for so long.

I don't know which part of being educated constitutes a "constant attack" to you, because the very notion is highly questionable, but at the same time it kinda answers a lot of questions. And please, spare me your highly self-aware and totally not ironic remarks about headcanon (I recall you saying something about constant attacks by the way) because they mean nothing coming from you. Because unlike you I can source each and every one of my claims. Here:

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Jaina%27s_Resolution In this here quest at the very start of the Purge of Dalaran we see Jaina personally killing five Aethas' guards (that did not attack her). Like I said, before she even made her ultimatum to Aethas and before the went apeshit on the Sunreavers once he refused. Then we have multiple Blood Elves dying in the sewers. Which already constitutes more than five Blood Elves like you claimed. And that's before you consider that in-game portrayal is a poor reflection of numbers because of limits of the game engine. Like someone else mentioned to you before in this thread, lore sources (i.e. War Crimes from what I recall) called the Purge a deadly ordeal.

In the very same quest Jaina herself states that her goal is the removal of Sunreavers from Dalaran through force. I.e. not just imprisonment like you claimed. When the very character you try to defend contradicts you (which I already pointed out to you in the previous thread on the topic) that kinda should have lit a light bulb for you. About how your claim is perhaps not as good as you initially thought it to be.

Lastly, the position Jaina had in Dalaran. Again, Dalaran is ruled by Council of Six as a whole. As per Tides of War, the ruler can't even break a tie when one happens. Because one did during that novel and instead of Rhonin making the final decision, the vote had to be redone after more deliberation. And you think Jaina had the legal authority to act on her own? Seriously? Never mind that when there was a similar event in the past when a member of the Council of Six (i.e. Kel'thuzad) was suspected of wrongdoing, it was also the majority of the Council acting in response instead of just Antonidas smacking his ass.

And since I can source my claims, given how my claims directly contradict yours, that automatically means that what you are claiming goes against canon lore. So you got one thing right, "arguing with someone that has already made up his headcannon and will not waver from it is only amusing for so long".

Which is what I said.

No, you said that she could have overpowered Thrall had she not seen the truth in Kalec's words. Which means she could have overpowered him even with Kalec present. And if she struggled to overpowered Thrall alone, the idea that she could have overpowered him with Kalec there to aid him has nothing to stand on.

Orgrimmar, build by the most militant people on the planet (Orcs) as a fortress with a giant wall of metal and stone, spikes and cannons versus Darnassus a city inside of a tree with mostly shops and a temple... one sure seems more prepared for a war then the other, besides the fact that Garrosh had long before started the war and as his capital Orgrimmar was a military target by his mere presence in it.

How weird then that back during the Divine Bell incident the Horde tried to assault Darnassus directly and failed. It's almost as if the city had walls and people to man them.

Theramore was a neutral state, because Jaina was neutral until Garrosh changed that, she even had ties to the Horde and helped them. There was no reason at all to expect an attack from Theramore, if Garrosh had kept the peace.
Oh and the civillians only managed to flee because Baine send a warning. Garrosh even prepared the mana bomb so that it would hinder teleportation and thus could prevent a magical evacuation. So the fact that only some civilians died (Kindy, a teenage gnome for one) was definately not because Garrosh planned it so. And his disgusting treatment of refugees from Theramore that had done nothing whatsoever to him just reinforces this point.

Theramore was such a neutral state that Jaina called Varian her king before he even became the High King. Please... Theramore was never neutral and that has been clear since Cycle of Hatred. Let alone in that war. Theramore's troops from Northwatch invaded Barrens, assaulted Crossroads and captured Honor's Stand before Garrosh even invaded Ashenvale. Then it became the staging ground for Alliance offensive on Horde's territory in central Kalimdor and the rally point for reinforcements from Eastern Kingdoms. Theramore even got a fancy new highroad to connect it to the Barrens to speed up the reinforcement process. With Theramore soldiers fighting the Horde across five zones and trying to attack two more (including Orgrimmar itself).

And everyone that chose not to flee remained specifically to defend the city as per Tides of War. Which made them militia, not civilians because words mean things. And they'd have an opportunity to flee Baine or no Baine because Baine's presence didn't change the fact that Garrosh sat on his ass at the city's gates for a week, waiting for Alliance to send more troops into his trap.

Well, if you mean this entire nonsense about breaking the Nelf's spirit, then you must know by now that that also is not her true reason, just a cover story she gave to Saurfang so he would go along.
She just wanted to kill as many people as possible. She is not just a cruel monster, no no, she is an omnicidal cruel monster. My point however was that it is still not a glorious victory that you can call an achievment when all you did is burn down a defenseless target.

Congrats on arguing against your own previous claim on the matter.

[Darth-Piekus]

oh that is a funny way to say tactical retreat

It is a sad day when people are liking a character just to spite someone. They need to do something else with their life.

[Schattenlied]

Well alliance never mentioned about it meaning most likely everyone of them were killed

WHich, again, just means she killed everyone who could have put a good word in for the Forsaken when she set about looking for allies...

She sent emissaries to the Alliance, looking for allies, imagine how much better that would have went if she didn't murder the people who would have otherwise had good reason to speak well of her.

You are assuming calia would have dared

I do.

and no he wouldn't in history warlords who have kept and empires together in reality hold more power than the monarch

Azeroth isn't earth, that is not it's history.

and technically what arthas said after killing terenas dismantled the kingdom and only way to disinherit the Crown prince is by royal decree and Terenas never did such a thing.

Arthas was a traitor and was technically "dead"... Even if he wasn't "dead" he was missing, which would put Calia in charge in his absence.

scourge numbers without a power base she couldn't compete with it.

She was doing just fine before.

She controlled stormwind nobles at that point and was trusted by Varian and what we have seen if nobles disaprovee Something in stormwind the monarch can't really do anything like with the stonemasons guild.

She still didn't hold all the power.

Jaina you mean the fool who tried convince arthas listen to medivh

Why wouldn't she try to do that? Medivh was right.

antodidas had to force jaina to leave Dalaran when scourge started sieging it

and if she were there maybe it would have fared better.

Jaina who wasted her forces around stonetalon peaks when guarding medivhs cave and many of them were killed by orcs for naught

Yeah, she should have just sat there defenseless.

Jaina who knew if she didn't stand up to her father it would mean war

Not sure what your point is here.

Jaina who cried about theramore being neutral but letting alliance military to use as a groundingbase and point of retreat and letting her forces to march durotan at the start of cata and they planned assault on razor hill, orgrimmar and sen'jin village still after that cried "Theramore was neutral"

Not sure how this is really relevant, it was neutral until it had reason not to be, that reason being Garrosh going on a power trip and trying to conquer all of Kalimdor.

jaina and purge of dalaran were she antagonised an entire race for actions of few

Well maybe the leader of the Blood Elves in the city shouldn't have let shit go down without telling the Kirin Tor about it... If their leader lets the Horde conduct wartime action through Dalaran it's impossible to know who under him is complicit, there's no sense in risking keeping them around, it's "mean", but logical to kick them out of the city.

and lastly here writting in war crimes makes no sense

Oh please do elaborate.

and wod makes no sense

Again, please do elaborate.

Khadgar who nearly instantly assured of Garona when medivh said she was okay

He had no reason to distrust Medivh at that time, no one did.

khadgar who though draenor azeroth connection would be destroyed after physical structures around dark portal were destroyed

Self sacrifice for the greater good is not "stupid". If he hadn't closed the portal the destruction of Draenor would not have been limited to Draenor, the energies would have spilled through the portal and begun to destroy Azeroth as well, that's the whole reason he did it.

in draenor actually trying to cast magic on DW itself and not on his armor

But it worked? How is it stupid if it worked?

and it was actually suicidal stupid to challenge dw

But, again, it worked, they won, and he wasn't alone... They were in alliance with Gruul and his followers, and again, they won.

This was again, willingness to self sacrifice for the greater good to retrieve the Skull of Gul'dan. Not stupidity.

Challengening ner'zhul when he had Control of nearly all of draenors energies and scepter of sargeras

So, they were just supposed to let him do whatever the hell he wanted?

trying find gul'dan without any special power boost in wod

Again, was he just supposed to let Gul'dan do whatever he wanted?

nearly getting killed by garona

I'm not sure how this counts as "stupidity"... You're aware of who Garona is what what she's capable of, yes?

couldn't prevent Gul'dan in tomb of sargeras eventhough studying him for years and causinf Gul'dan to go back to legion.

Not having enough power to beat someone =/= being stupid.

Alleria and Turalyon on off shit betwen tides of darkness and beyond the dark portal proves they are retarded.

No it doesn't.

Or alleria thinking x'era wouldn't imprison her void corrupted ass

She didn't have much choice but to take the risk.

alleria trusting sylvanas wouldn't kill her and vereesa in the comics.

Sylvanas didn't kill them, so she was correct.

Thinking Lor'themar would choose alliance before bfa even though what alliance had done to belfs

This is her one preventable screw up, and it's not nearly on the same scope as Sylvie's

and endangering the sunwell with her presence...

There's no way she could know what would happen and we both know it.

heck even rommath knew she would endanger it without studying void as much....

Knew? No, he assumed, he just happened to be right, he didn't have proof, he just believed that's what would happen.

Tyralyon challenging Deathwing

Again, they won.

Ner'zhul

We're going in circles now, were they just supposed to let him do whatever he wanted?

and thinking light is benevolent force which AU draenor and x'era proves otherwise.

No one had any reason to believe it wasn't at that time, there was no evidence to suggest it was anything else.

All AU draenor and X'era, like the Scarlet Crusade, proves is that The Light is a neutral force. It does not have morals or an agenda, it will give it's power to anyone who has the conviction to wield it and believes they are doing it for the right reasons.

Do remember that X'era, and the Naaru, are not The Light itself, The Light itself only exists outside of reality, Naaru do not represent the will of The Light, they are creatures made of holy magic and they have their own free will and agendas.


In closing, format your posts better, this was a pain to respond to.

[Mehrunes]

Just because an idiot gets slightly smarter does not move them out of idiot territory, she was still a fucking idiot.

She was such an idiot in life that her defense of Quel'Thalas made Arthas rage despite the fact that Dar'khan allowed him into the kingdom.

In WC3TFT, Sylvanas shows the remainder of the Alliance's military in Lordaeron that she and the Forsaken are not aligned with the Scourge, that they can be trusted and worked with - and then proceeds to kill them all and steal their land and city. Yes, Garithos was a racist asshat who deserved to die, or at least be thrown in prison for the rest of his life, but she didn't know that, she didn't even know who he was, so that can't be her reason for killing him. Even if she did know, the soldiers under his command didn't deserve to die with him, a lot of them (like the Dwarves, to whom he was also racist) would have probly been pretty ok with his death.

Yeah, Sylvanas totally didn't know about what a racist asshat Garithos was even after he made such a remarks about her and her people like calling them wretched animals. If your theory about Sylvanas being an idiot has to rely on you going "what if Sylvanas' idiocy was so monumental she didn't even comprehend spoken language despite nothing indicating that", then your theory doesn't really hold up to scrutiny. You realize that, right?

And given the above, Garithos would have made for a piss-poor neighbor. The situation there was a blatant case of "who would make the move against the other first". You ignoring that isn't an argument. And given how not a single of the would-be-saint soldier of Garithos had a problem with him sentencing Blood Elves to death despite them being their comrades and, you know, not undead, none of them would be the valiant defender of undead-kind you want to paint them as here.

An argument could be made that she only killed Garithos, because we never see her murder his soldiers... Problem with that argument is it just further enforces her short sightedness, because they witnessed her make her deal with Garithos (that deal being: the Garithos gets control over Lordaeron for the Alliance in exchange for helping Sylvanas get revenge against the dreadlords within), and then break that deal and murder him. If they survived they'd have been able to tell the rest of the Alliance about it and prove her untrustworthy, which would justify all the hostility the Alliance had shown the Forsaken between WC3 and WoW.

No one in the Alliance ever said a word about that, nor have they justified their aggression to Forsaken emissaries with that. Had the Alliance known Anduin wouldn't be apologizing to Sylvanas for Alliance's response to those emissaries. So no, that argument couldn't have been made.

Bites her in the ass when she sends people out to look for allies between WC3 and Vanilla WoW in the timeline, she killed all the people who could have told the Alliance that the Forsaken could be trusted... An act that in itself shows that the Alliance were smart not to trust her, and then she had the audacity to be upset with the Alliance for being distrustful towards her and her people.

But their lack of trust had nothing to do with being smart. They had no trust because they acted like scared animals lashing out against the unknown.

She had an opportunity to build trust with the humans, even Garithos, who was an absolutely colossal douche, was willing to work with her, and instead she chose to make them a threat by attacking them, and proving herself to be untrustworthy.

Garithos was only willing to work with her when she was of use. When that stopped being the case that ended momentarily, which he outright expressed. The idea that there could be anything built between the Forsaken and Garithos is flat out bogus.

Also irrelevant, as I already stated, that even if the Alliance didn't know about it, that would mean that she killed everyone that could have told the Alliance she could be trusted, if she had kept her word.

Yes, they'd be telling that to the Alliance for sure after Garithos ordered them to slaughter the Forsaken to cleanse his Lordaeron of the "wretched animals".

No, as he would be forced to cede control of it to the rightful heir to the throne of Lordaeron, Calia Menethil, and would not have the authority to do such a thing without her approval (if he kept his command at all, as Calia would have most likely had him removed, if not executed, for his crimes against the High Elves).

Putting aside that Calia was lost to the wind at the time, since when is the Supreme Commander of the Alliance subject to the king or queen of Lordaeron alone?

Nah, not really... The Scourge's command and control in the area had been wiped out, she was doing fine against the Scourge in the area before they were taken out, she'd do fine after.

The Scourge's command was so wiped out that Scourge armies still ventured as far as Tirisfal to wage war against the Scarlet Crusade in the Scarlet Monastery. And with Garithos demanding that the Forsaken fuck off from his would-be kingdom, the prospect of settling in the Plaguelands was just marvelous for the Forsaken.

Onyxia didn't come to power in Stormwind until years after these events took place, plenty of time for them to have gotten into the Alliance if she had kept her word, or at least brokered peace on the grounds of having a mutual enemy (Arthas and the Scourge).

Onyxia was already a member of the House of Nobles shortly after the Second War. Just because she wasn't the de facto leader of it yet doesn't mean she wasn't already meddling.

Jaina is most assuredly smarter, always has been, Khadgar too, Turalyon and Alleria as well.

Jaina was so smart even Varian had to berate her stupidity on occasion like during the Purge of Dalaran. And that guy was such a colossal moron that it's a miracle he could breath unassisted. Vide the fact how he repeatedly lost against Sylvanas. I.e. if Sylvanas is as stupid as you claim that even by your own account Varian was stupider by her on the account of being unable to do shit against her and, consequently, Jaina was stupider than him (and consequently than Sylvanas) if even Varian could have a superior position to her.

[Schattenlied]

She was such an idiot in life that her defense of Quel'Thalas made Arthas rage despite the fact that Dar'khan allowed him into the kingdom.

And then she entered melee combat as an archer and did a powerslide into Frostmourne.

Yeah, Sylvanas totally didn't know about what a racist asshat Garithos

She didn't, go play (or watch on youtube, I don't care) the mission where she meets him, she doesn't have the slightest clue who he is.

And given the above, Garithos would have made for a piss-poor neighbor.

He would, but Calia was alive, and with her kingdom being secured would have every reason to come out of hiding to take up the crown.

none of them would be the valiant defender of undead-kind you want to paint them as here.

I wager that the fact that she saved all of their lives from enslavement by dreadlord would make a big difference.

No one in the Alliance ever said a word about

Which, again, just means she killed everyone who could have put a good word in for the Forsaken when she set about looking for allies...

But their lack of trust had nothing to do with being smart. They had no trust because they acted like scared animals lashing out against the unknown.

And that fear was justified, because Sylvanas was and is every bit the monster they feared her to be.

The idea that there could be anything built between the Forsaken and Garithos is flat out bogus.

Indeed, which is why I never said anything of the sort.

[Minikin]

It is a sad day when people are liking a character just to spite someone. They need to do something else with their life.

Eh it's all they got left anymore after cheering for her for years only to realize she betrayed lol.

Also I cannot believe that even after so many years ppl still defend jainas actions in dalaran. It was a purge, stop being biased and calling it other things. You people deserve @Mehrunes yelling at you.

[Sharby]

It's almost 2020 and people are still trying to say the Alliance are more evil than the Faction that literally murdered thousands of children and other innocents. This is why I don't Lore discussion seriously here lol.

"Wiser and more cunning"

a.) Slides into Arthas' melee range as an archer to get owned by him.
b.) Assumes that even though she mind controls random soldiers on the battlefield when they come back, doesn't do the same to her higher ranking new resurrectees, resulting in Godfrey resurrecting and promptly capping her.
c.) Throws a tantrum and ruins her smart plan to isolate the Night Elves from the Alliance, which had already succeed, after a single Night Elf commander says she feels bad for her. Causing a huge world war and making virtually every leader on the planet want her dead. Like Garrosh.
d.) Abandons leadership of one of the two superpowers on Azeroth after Saurfang gets a single hit against her even though her remaining Warchief could have led to far, far more deaths for her plan.

Sylvanas' entire MO has been overconfidence and it blowing up in her face. Usually because she's a child who throws tantrums when 100% of her plans don't go exactly according to plan. Which is funny considering Blizzard bruteforces 99.9% of them to succeed regardless of reality anyway.

Oh but sorry for interrupting all the people whining about Humans and Anduin again, like every thread on this subforum. Resume your totally unique and never before heard commentary.

I wish I could upvote posts your messages are always so refreshing to read.

[Friendlyimmolation]

It is a sad day when people are liking a character just to spite someone. They need to do something else with their life.

and yet 90% of your posts about Sylvanas is about how she needs to die and her fans need to leave the game..

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It is a common theory or rather understanding of all undead “seeing darkness” or some kind of super shitty horror place when they die.

All Jaina's brother saw was "Darkness" when he died as well. The way it's written even now has every single afterlife pretty shitty at best, unless you want to strip yourself of everything that made you, you.

[Terongor]

WHich, again, just means she killed everyone who could have put a good word in for the Forsaken when she set about looking for allies...

She sent emissaries to the Alliance, looking for allies, imagine how much better that would have went if she didn't murder the people who would have otherwise had good reason to speak well of her.

I do.

Azeroth isn't earth, that is not it's history.


Arthas was a traitor and was technically "dead"... Even if he wasn't "dead" he was missing, which would put Calia in charge in his absence.

She was doing just fine before.

She still didn't hold all the power.

Why wouldn't she try to do that? Medivh was right.
and if she were there maybe it would have fared better.

Yeah, she should have just sat there defenseless.

Not sure what your point is here.

Not sure how this is really relevant, it was neutral until it had reason not to be, that reason being Garrosh going on a power trip and trying to conquer all of Kalimdor.

Well maybe the leader of the Blood Elves in the city shouldn't have let shit go down without telling the Kirin Tor about it... If their leader lets the Horde conduct wartime action through Dalaran it's impossible to know who under him is complicit, there's no sense in risking keeping them around, it's "mean", but logical to kick them out of the city.

Oh please do elaborate.

Again, please do elaborate.

He had no reason to distrust Medivh at that time, no one did.

Self sacrifice for the greater good is not "stupid". If he hadn't closed the portal the destruction of Draenor would not have been limited to Draenor, the energies would have spilled through the portal and begun to destroy Azeroth as well, that's the whole reason he did it.

But it worked? How is it stupid if it worked?

But, again, it worked, they won, and he wasn't alone... They were in alliance with Gruul and his followers, and again, they won.

This was again, willingness to self sacrifice for the greater good to retrieve the Skull of Gul'dan. Not stupidity.

So, they were just supposed to let him do whatever the hell he wanted?

Again, was he just supposed to let Gul'dan do whatever he wanted?

I'm not sure how this counts as "stupidity"... You're aware of who Garona is what what she's capable of, yes?

Not having enough power to beat someone =/= being stupid.

No it doesn't.

She didn't have much choice but to take the risk.

Sylvanas didn't kill them, so she was correct.


This is her one preventable screw up, and it's not nearly on the same scope as Sylvie's


There's no way she could know what would happen and we both know it.


Knew? No, he assumed, he just happened to be right, he didn't have proof, he just believed that's what would happen.

Again, they won.

We're going in circles now, were they just supposed to let him do whatever he wanted?

No one had any reason to believe it wasn't at that time, there was no evidence to suggest it was anything else.

All AU draenor and X'era, like the Scarlet Crusade, proves is that the Light is a neutral force. It does not have morals or an agenda, it will give it's power to anyone who has the conviction to wield it and believes they are doing it for the right reasons.

Do remember that X'era, and the Naaru, are not the light itself, The Light itself only exists outside of reality, Naaru do not represent the will of the Light, they are creatures made of holy magic and they have their own free will and agendas.


In closing, format your posts better, this was a pain to respond to.

Well for starters she couldn't have built any powerbase if they survived as it would have led to an instant war and fof her to kill arthas she needed power.

Assuming that she just hanged out in tarren mill and didn't join up with alexandros against undeads no she wouldn't have.

It still was inspired by earths history as its shared many pararels to it as such we can't assume any differance.

Monarchs own their people monarchs can't be Traitors and nobody with a position who could do it declared arthad a traitor and the instant terenas died arthas became monarch and people who opposed him became traitors.

You mean the wc3 campaign were she only battled dreadlord force and not a single time scourge?

Onyxia hold enough power to prevent it.

If Jaina was smart she would have know arthas wouldn't listen.

If she was smart antodidas wouldn't have to force her to go.

And causing point loss of life.

If she stood up to her father said if he didn't leave she would command theramore troops to attack him and by that preventing Daelins war against the orcs.

She spoke in tides of war book that theramore was still neutral while her forces attacked Durotan in cata so its her being stupid.

Council of six need to vote for the banishing of its member as we saw in road to damnation as such Jaina acted out of line and antagonised whole races after helping alliance with their wareffort to gain divine bell and helping securing it meaning she broke dalarans neutrality again.

After thrall anduin chi-ji etc saved her she said forgivin the horde and at the same time saying khadgar can't work with the horde in wod.

So a person looking like s member of mysterious invaders.... yeah no... anybody with half a brain wouldn't trust.

I meant at the end of tides of darkness when khadgar destroyed the structure on azeroths side.....

No it didn't work.... khadgar had to cast the spell on DWs armor.

Managing to succeeded in stupid suicidal mission still doesn't change it from being stupid.

They should have find a smarter aproach not work like retards against ner'zhul.

Gather the stuff from highmaul and blackrock foundry before not Challenging him when not prepared as such it was stupid.

I'm aware and so was khadgar 100% aware and he had strong warden with him.... so that was stupid of him.

He had enough power until gul'dan gained the power boost and acting so passively was stupid of him against a gul'dan as he knew how he worked.

How it doesn't how alleria turalyon let the things stay so bad for so long doesn't make anysense as such stupid.

She did not return.

As sylvanas planned on it didn't because she became too emotional and not guessing sylvanas planned on it was stupid of her.

Its not preventable.

Yeah she could have she studied void for hundredd of years and by doing so she should learn who it affects light and sunwell was.a font of light and arcane power so she should have known if rommath.... "assumed" correctly so with the knowledge of void alleria should have assumed her being in the pressence of light well could end very badly for it.

Again doesn't change the mission was stupid and suicidal.

Again think of a better plan.

Asssuming that void has void lords and light needs to have its opposite as such most likely it has an agenda and its the lights agenda and x'era being the prime naaru and having the title lightmother imblies much.

Also working so close with Xe'ra for hundred of years there should have being alot of moments when xe'ra showed his true nature to Turalyon and he most likely down played it as he didn't seem to care how xe'ra tried to force his will on Illidan and then getting angry on Illidan defending himself proves Turalyon is an blind idiot when it comes to light and Xe'ra which just shows how stupid he is.

[Phuongvi]

On a raiting of Saturday morining cartoon vilain I gave her a raiting of Stormer from The Misfits in Jem and the Hollogram.

I don't know but the they keep her under the rock from 4 expansion giving us a litte bit of story each expansion.... 10 years for this crap ??? I mean come on, this Shadowloand intro was way too much shit I can handle and still we have no fraking idea what she's up to

[VladlTutushkin]

being undead you are capable of all those things, and it gives you imunity to diseases and mild resistance to magic, and unlimited breath, also you are capable of withstanding injuries that would be fatal to human, and surely boosts your strenght too (how else would they fight when they miss some muscles?)

"dooms your soul to the Maw" - source please, bcs as far as i know this is your invention, it wasnt mentioned by blizzard at all, actualy necromancy is tied to maldraxxus, not to maw...
"Also apparently you fall apart after a hug or whatever." pure creative writing on your side, if they are able to fight, they sure dont fall apart from huging...
"if undead stop making more undead then nobody would have much of a reason to attack them really." - yeah, bcs everybody was so friendly towards them since vanila to cataclysme when they had no way of creating new undead...

so i guess "genocide" of worgen would be fine, after all only difference to what Genn did to undead would be the speed at which they would be done...
and wiping worgen would stop the curse completely, so i only difference between genocide of worgen and breaking that lamp is it would be faster

You being purposefully dishonest. Letting a diseased population to live their time and die out naturally is not a genocide. Its just removing an affliction when they all pass away on their own. And only Scarletts were killing Forsaken from Vamilla to Cata, Alliance started fighting them after they encroached on Hillsbrad.

[Grazrug]

and yet 90% of your posts about Sylvanas is about how she needs to die and her fans need to leave the game..

- - - Updated - - -




All Jaina's brother saw was "Darkness" when he died as well. The way it's written even now has every single afterlife pretty shitty at best, unless you want to strip yourself of everything that made you, you.

Don't call them out on facts like that

[Lolites]

You being purposefully dishonest. Letting a diseased population to live their time and die out naturally is not a genocide. Its just removing an affliction when they all pass away on their own. And only Scarletts were killing Forsaken from Vamilla to Cata, Alliance started fighting them after they encroached on Hillsbrad.

but the lamp could not only help raise more forsaken, it would help raise fallen forsaken AGAIN, sure, some of them dont want that (desolate council was it?), but some DO, how is preventing someone from continuing his existence, however bad it might seem to external observers, not a bad thing? its decision about who should "live" or die, if somebody else could do it for forsaken and prevent them from continuing their existence its not really different from killing someone...

that dalaran town/village in Silverpine was also attacking forsaken, so you are incorrect, not to mention they were literaly hunted wherever they go, unless they sit in their capitol...

as for "die out naturally"... well, you mentioned the inteligence and other benefits of worgen curse BUT, thats false, they were BEASTS, before getting that potion in starter zone, so NATURAL way would be let them remain beasts, right? the potion IMPROVED their existence, but didnt cure them, (and tbh make them kinda more dangerous), so is that improvement to their condition good, bad prolonging lives of forsaken bad?