Warchief Baine

[Sezh]

It has nothing to do with being a hero or a villain. It has everything to do with. "I am leader of Tauren. My people are attacked. Instead of fighting back I will instead go help the other side."

Or maybe once your side has turned into something utterly evil beyond measure, it's no longer about this or that side but about stopping that evil at any cost.

[Verdugo]

"The Horde has a sickness in it."

Its called Baine.

[Trassk]

Its called Baine.

It's called an online fanbase

[Verdugo]

It's called an online fanbase

The one you are part of sure is annoying.

[Aucald]

Let's discuss the topic of the thread as opposed to sniping one another for having different opinions about it.

[mickybrighteyes]

Or maybe once your side has turned into something utterly evil beyond measure, it's no longer about this or that side but about stopping that evil at any cost.

ok... but that isn't what happened in Cataclysm....

and in BFA the storyline entirely ignored all the evil hostilities the alliance did to push the horde as the evil ones.

[Sezh]

ok... but that isn't what happened in Cataclysm....

and in BFA the storyline entirely ignored all the evil hostilities the alliance did to push the horde as the evil ones.

Baine perceived Sylvanas a larger threat to the horde than the alliance or anything else, he acted on that belief.

[mickybrighteyes]

Baine perceived Sylvanas a larger threat to the horde than the alliance or anything else, he acted on that belief.

ok... but the time he exiled Tauren for defending their territory from invading forces...

or when instead of standing against Sylvanas he sends the player to fight and kill personnel? There were no such lines drawn for 'loyalists and patriots' when Baine sends the player in. Baine is the first person to push for violence between peers in this manner and yet we still speak as though Sylvanas was the worst... only.

But we'll just continue on with this story about how Baine is what's best for the horde.... nevermind he has never acted with respect to the horde in the scope that the game has shown.

[Gann Stonespire]

ok... but the time he exiled Tauren for defending their territory from invading forces...

or when instead of standing against Sylvanas he sends the player to fight and kill personnel? There were no such lines drawn for 'loyalists and patriots' when Baine sends the player in. Baine is the first person to push for violence between peers in this manner and yet we still speak as though Sylvanas was the worst... only.

But we'll just continue on with this story about how Baine is what's best for the horde.... nevermind he has never acted with respect to the horde in the scope that the game has shown.

Baine's dishonorable actions in Tides of War also break the oath of the Horde saying all members have a right to retribution when attacked.

He has never acted with respect to the Horde in the novels either and if anything disrespects the Horde and everything it stands for in the novels.

I believe adding elves and corpses to the noble savages of the Horde was, thematically, the worst idea Blizzard ever put into action. Baine represents the values and ideals of Thrall's horde, there is no Orc or Troll around of note to do the same, so for me Baine is the best fit.

Baine doesn't represent Thrall's original shamanistic Horde at all, he's a human in a bull suit who trusts humans more then Humans and constantly does everything in his power to make sure that the Horde, especially tauren, cowtow to his human masters at every chance he gets.

True Horde, as in what was founded by Thrall, that is what i would like to see again.

Thrall's Horde is dead as well; Orcs have no heroes left and their history was retconned so they were never honorable or shamanistic, the connection between Orcs, Trolls and Tauren is dead with Baine trusting humans more then orcs, Baine is a traitor who shows no honorable shamanistic traits and Rohkan is just a vestige from a bygone time. Note Rokhan only existed as a sidekick to Rexxar with only one line in all of Frozen Throne's campaign, a underdeveloped backup Vol'jin who never got to stand on his own.

[Sezh]

Baine doesn't represent Thrall's original shamanistic Horde at all, he's a human in a bull suit who trusts humans more then Humans and constantly does everything in his power to make sure that the Horde, especially tauren, cowtow to his human masters at every chance he gets.

Sure thing dude.

[Artelia]

Of course...who is better Warchief for today's Horde players than someone who is just Alliance underling. Look around. People wants it! Peace, Unifaction and Boredom!

[Syegfryed]

Sure thing dude.

adding elves and undeads was a mistake but it could, and it was, being controlled by blizzard not putting then as "face" of the horde, instead of the original races who made horde, well horde, when they change that, we have this now, this crap

but he is not that wrong, Baine indeed don't represent the original thrall's horde at all, Cairne before him was never that passive, and always fight for the horde against their enemies, he didn't give a single shit about who they were, people talk he is alliance in disguise by good reasons

[Zuben]

Baine should be a permanent ambassador to Stormwind. That way Horde and Alliance would have a direct line of friendly communications AND Horde players won't have to see Baine's stupid face.

[Sezh]

adding elves and undeads was a mistake but it could, and it was, being controlled by blizzard not putting then as "face" of the horde, instead of the original races who made horde, well horde, when they change that, we have this now, this crap

but he is not that wrong, Baine indeed don't represent the original thrall's horde at all, Cairne before him was never that passive, and always fight for the horde against their enemies, he didn't give a single shit about who they were, people talk he is alliance in disguise by good reasons

Baine was fighting the enemy of the Horde. The problem was that the enemy of the Horde was the leader of the Horde.

Are you really going to try and argue that temporarily allying with humans in order to fight back a much greater threat to the Horde, and not using any means necessary to achieve victory, is not the way of Thrall's horde? The entire orcish WC3 campaign would like to disagree with you.

[Cyram]

No. I don't like the idea of being led by a bland, annoyingly devoted to the Alliance cow-child.
... ugh hy hasn't Magatha made an appearance so we can get rid of him.

[mickybrighteyes]

Baine was fighting the enemy of the Horde. The problem was that the enemy of the Horde was the leader of the Horde.

This is what the railroading of the story wants us to think..

But when those enemies are the Alliance... Baine doesn't seem to help the horde except unwillingly.

Why do you think Gann Stonespire had no real back up when he was attacking Bael Modan? What was Baine's position on the Baeldun invaders? What did Baine do to his people who tried to defend themselves from invading Alliance forces?

If the horde is acting against the Alliance, Baine has historically dropped everything to RUN to make sure the Alliance is informed and things are laid out for them. Otherwise he sits on his ass trying to look better than other horde options making things retarded for his own people.

[MatthiasVonTzeskagrad]

Baine was fighting the enemy of the Horde. The problem was that the enemy of the Horde was the leader of the Horde.

Are you really going to try and argue that temporarily allying with humans in order to fight back a much greater threat to the Horde, and not using any means necessary to achieve victory, is not the way of Thrall's horde? The entire orcish WC3 campaign would like to disagree with you.

Remind yourself that this guy gave water to freaking quillboars, who then murdered Taurajo refugees, and never gave a fuck about it. Or that he sent you to watch over a cooperate Zandalari-Forsaken counteroffensive on the Alliance because he wanted the human invaders in Zuldazar to be treated nicely.

[Syegfryed]

Baine was fighting the enemy of the Horde. The problem was that the enemy of the Horde was the leader of the Horde.

Are you really going to try and argue that temporarily allying with humans in order to fight back a much greater threat to the Horde, and not using any means necessary to achieve victory, is not the way of Thrall's horde? The entire orcish WC3 campaign would like to disagree with you.

Baine is always figthing the horde then, cause even before sylvanas he was a peacemonger who care more about the alliance than his own people, like with the exile event, he is a disgrace of character who don't come near close to his father.

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Remind yourself that this guy gave water to freaking quillboars, who then murdered Taurajo refugees, and never gave a fuck about it. Or that he sent you to watch over a cooperate Zandalari-Forsaken counteroffensive on the Alliance because he wanted the human invaders in Zuldazar to be treated nicely.

"taurujo was a valid target" -Baine

[Grazrug]

Baine is always figthing the horde then, cause even before sylvanas he was a peacemonger who care more about the alliance than his own people, like with the exile event, he is a disgrace of character who don't come near close to his father.

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"taurujo was a valid target" -Baine

Hit the nail on the head.

[Powerogue]

He's massively over-hated on these forums but still, Baine for warchief? That'd be like renaming Anduin to Bloodlord Deathking Anduin.