Alliance AV is terribly depressing

[Clbull]

On the plus side, it's apparently one of the fastest methods for levelling if you want to skip WoW's tedious quest content and hit 120 quickly.

[artam]

tthose are simply lies

map and bosses much are designed to be eaiser for allience

your problem is that your fraction sucks in pvp and cant win favorable map unless in full premade.

dont worry retail is the same - i have 100% win ratio in korak revenge as horde while leveling my alts.

because allience dont understand how to play that bg.

Oh! Ally knows how to play that BG well, > Queue > 2 or 3m enter BG > Let you guys win as fast as you can > requeue > 2-3 m of wait .... and so on , at the end of the day with no effort at all, Ally got the XP it needs.

[reauxmont]

Oh! Ally knows how to play that BG well, > Queue > 2 or 3m enter BG > Let you guys win as fast as you can > requeue > 2-3 m of wait .... and so on , at the end of the day with no effort at all, Ally got the XP it needs.

But why not put in a little effort and win every time, resulting in probably double the XP?

I dont understand OP. Maybe hes not using the Alliance premades? Because I have like a 99% win rate since joining that. We have 30-35 coordinated people in the discord, with all on Epic Mounts (you arent allowed in the premade if you dont have one) and we collect the LTs, Kill Gav, AOE the LTs down and then curb stomp Galv in like 9 mins tops. Full rep, full honor, premade efficiency....

Alliance has nothing to complain about in AV right now unless you are pugging. I suppose those might be a dumpster fire....

But why bother with those when there's an alternative?

How do you get 35 people into one AV? I regularly play with 5-10 people, and even there, we need about 3 tries on average until everyone is able to join the same BG. Can't imagine how long it takes with 35, 10 minutes?

[artam]

But why not put in a little effort and win every time, resulting in probably double the XP?

Proly because Horde will not let ally win as easly as ally do, with their long queues, they have to fight for every win, that means time lost for both sides, its sad, but is what we have.

[Zig Zug]

But why not put in a little effort and win every time, resulting in probably double the XP?

That effort is trying to override the motivations of the 30+ other players on the team. At this stage they basically fall into three categories:

1) The person who never played vanilla AV, and just fucking dies - everywhere. Usually not a PvPer, and unsure of what to do.

2) The person who barks "EvErYoNe iS bAd ExCePt Me!" - standard vitriol of the average frustrated player. Typically says this while trying to solo a GY or tower, or hiding in Vans room while people are defending Dun Baldar.

3) The person just there to do the time and finish a grind.

I love a good AV - even if we loose, if its a good fight - it's one of the best experiences in WoW. The hardest part is trying to convince an Alliance team to fight like a Horde team.

[Machismo]

• 5-15 players jump-botting in base cave every match (likely the result of this game design)
• Map layout prefers Horde
• Boss layouts and boss mechanics prefer Horde
• Roughly 50% of people outside premades haven't got an epic mount

I'd rather take quality over quantity. Instant queue into a turtle game that has no bonus honor left must be the most depressing event of this decade. Anyone else genuinely considering a faction change?

One problem... your points 2 and 3 are simply wrong.

[slime]

I have like 14 Alliance toons and 1 horde toon. Guess which one I got the Av anniversary mounts with.

[Twoddle]

Instead of queing first available, scroll to the bottom and wait for a new one to open. Sometimes youll get a premade, sometimes youll get the one the premade dodged. Either way, its better odds at piggy backing a premade.

Once you're inside with a premade, try asking for their Discord link, there's a good chance one of them will whisper you back and you can queue with them cross-realm.

[Sangris]

It is, thats why they moved horde cave to south in mid-Tbc.

Except it is not, as multiple people in this thread have already pointed out. (Especially @Kralljin in their first post in this thread)

[Bramickias]

How do you get 35 people into one AV? I regularly play with 5-10 people, and even there, we need about 3 tries on average until everyone is able to join the same BG. Can't imagine how long it takes with 35, 10 minutes?

Thats pretty easy, have a Discord channel with 100 people in it, do a countdown for queueing, and everyone moves to a different channel according to which AV they got. Many are going to end up in the same AV, and for the unlucky ones who ends up replacing and afk player or in a group of 10, they just return to the original channel and wait for another countdown.

Thats why joining pug AV for the alliance is terrible right now. Everyone who wants to rank is in an AV premade discord because you need 1 000 000 honor to just get into the top 3 brackets on the big servers.

[kaid]

Oh! Ally knows how to play that BG well, > Queue > 2 or 3m enter BG > Let you guys win as fast as you can > requeue > 2-3 m of wait .... and so on , at the end of the day with no effort at all, Ally got the XP it needs.

I think this is probably a big part of it. To win AV alliance almost have to force a turtle off the bat to reset the hordes speed advantage due to map layout. But the problem for the alliance is that is still no sure way to win and does guarantee the game takes much longer to play out. So most just say F it and try the normal rush method and if it works good and if it doesn't then lose fast and queue again.

Leveling multiple alliance characters from low levels to max I won maybe 10 av as alliance. Leveling a low level horde the same way I only lost 3 av and two of those were due to actual trolling. People force resetting the end guy repeatedly for like 10 minutes.

- - - Updated - - -

One problem... your points 2 and 3 are simply wrong.

Map layout prefers the horde for the early towers. Once you take the early towers the choke point at the bunker by the hill is almost impassable by any alliance trying to get out past a blockade. The horde can also reach the first alliance bunker before the alliance can effectively get there so the alliance are almost forced to automatically cede a bunker as soon as the match starts. The only real option to stop that is to go full turtle mode and do a full rush and basically hit the horde there right after they arrive and try to win the clash and then push. But that requires way more coordination and agreement than the horde because for the horde hitting it in force is always the main pathway as it is the straight line path to all their objectives.

[Kralljin]

The horde can also reach the first alliance bunker before the alliance can effectively get there so the alliance are almost forced to automatically cede a bunker as soon as the match starts.

At least on Classic, the very first goal of Horde is generally Balinda, not Stonehearth Bunker.
Matter of fact, the Lieutenants near the Bunker are quite often forgotten by the Horde, a lot of Horde bypass this area and the Bunker isn't even tapped right off the bat.

To top things off, Horde leaves Stonehearth GY untapped to avoid a huge zerg between Icewing and Stormpike.
Stonehearth Bunker happens to be right on the path between the Horde area and the Stonehearth GY, which means that you need at least like 4+ Horde defenders in the Bunker to reliably defend it.

If someone from the Horde offense spawns at Iceblood, they won't even take a look at Iceblood tower, whereas on Alliance side, they ride straight past it.

But that requires way more coordination and agreement than the horde because for the horde hitting it in force is always the main pathway as it is the straight line path to all their objectives.

I disagree.
The sole reason why Horde is more coordinated is because they've slowly learned that you're not going to win an AV unless you defend.
The Alliance is just better at rushing, i've had this experience on Retail during TBC / Wotlk, where the Alliance was just flat out playing better.

40 Horde idiots rush into Balinda, no rides forwards to straight up cap Dun Baldar.
Icewing / Stonehearth bunker have 0-1 defender or aren't even tapped at all.

Meanwhile on Alliance side, people rode forward for Frostwolf keep to tap the entire base, some people deffed Iceblood / Tower point and some went even back after Galv to defend Icewing / Stonehearth bunker.

It was such a disheartening time in AV for Horde, sometimes you just sat in Dun Baldar, both Icewing / Stonehearth have been deffed by the Alliance, at least one Dun Baldar bunker was constantly recapped by some rogue(s) and Vanndar sat there with 3-4 Marshalls up while the Alliance was waiting for the final Tower to fall.

It in my opinion, comes down to:
People could win and coordinate, they just don't give a shit.
Happened to Horde during TBC / Wotlk, most just accepted that AV was a lost cause and rather took the quick loss over some 20min+ victory, now Alliance has extremely short queue times and basically goes all in each game.

[Kagthul]

Not to mention that potentially being able to reach Stoneheart Bunker about 15 seconds faster than Alliance can reach Iceblood Tower is a meaningless "advantage".

Iceblood Tower is pretty much impossible to defend (the room inside the tower presents way too many LoS issues to a proper defense, and the NPCs never help you) while Alliance Bunkers the NPCs will defend the tower, including having a part of their AI/script that leads them to fire on people capping the flag even if some other NPC or PC has aggro; Horde archers do not do this (they cant, actually, because they are all outside the flag room with no LoS.

The entire rest of the map is HEAVILY tilted in the Alliance's favor.

I am, for shiggles, going about on my matches today (right now) taking lots of pics so i can put together a collage, showing all the various ways the Alliance has it far better in AV.

And i say this despite being (so far today) 6/1 wins/losses in AV.

Horde is primarily winning, at least for now, because Alliance have no idea what to do when their Offence fails, and most Horde groups im getting into are now smart enough to have about 15 people Teleport back to FW Keep right as the Allies roll in and wipe their offence or at least completely stall them and send ~20-25 of them back to Stoneheart or Snowfall.

We keep 15 on D, stall them, and the rest grind away at O until we win.

But the map is hillariously tilted in favor of Alliance as a whole.

[Rainyhealz]

Not to mention that potentially being able to reach Stoneheart Bunker about 15 seconds faster than Alliance can reach Iceblood Tower is a meaningless "advantage".

Iceblood Tower is pretty much impossible to defend (the room inside the tower presents way too many LoS issues to a proper defense, and the NPCs never help you) while Alliance Bunkers the NPCs will defend the tower, including having a part of their AI/script that leads them to fire on people capping the flag even if some other NPC or PC has aggro; Horde archers do not do this (they cant, actually, because they are all outside the flag room with no LoS.

The entire rest of the map is HEAVILY tilted in the Alliance's favor.

I am, for shiggles, going about on my matches today (right now) taking lots of pics so i can put together a collage, showing all the various ways the Alliance has it far better in AV.

And i say this despite being (so far today) 6/1 wins/losses in AV.

Horde is primarily winning, at least for now, because Alliance have no idea what to do when their Offence fails, and most Horde groups im getting into are now smart enough to have about 15 people Teleport back to FW Keep right as the Allies roll in and wipe their offence or at least completely stall them and send ~20-25 of them back to Stoneheart or Snowfall.

We keep 15 on D, stall them, and the rest grind away at O until we win.

But the map is hillariously tilted in favor of Alliance as a whole.

This ^. This isnt a new debate. This debate is years old and has always ended with av being alliance favored. There is a reason that throughout every expansion, bg % wins were horde over ally with the exception if AV ally sided and isle of conquest, with docks being closer to ally side.

[ryjkur]

Except it is not, as multiple people in this thread have already pointed out. (Especially @Kralljin in their first post in this thread)

Who cares about towers when fights last 7-10 minutes.

[pinkz]

it's what the players make of the BG. i saw a stream of a AV on Xmas evening, both sides summoned their bosses. i have seen AVs where they extend the BG by stopping the zerg to set up honor kill farming, funny though, the side with the failed zerg most AFKd out but the game continued, with one side not actually wanting to win and end it. i have also seen the alliance win zerg games. alot of streamers were doing this method, then wondering why horde who killed key NPCS, and farmed stragglers were getting 2-4x honor and losing the games.

[Athredas]

Funny because I distinctly remember AV being THE battleground where Alliance always dominated

[Willhouse]

Alliance in 2020 LUL

[Karlz0rz]

I mean, hasn't AV been Alliance favored since TBC? Might as well go in Hordes favor for a little while! <3

[pinkz]

with the version of AV in classic WOW, alliance is winning alot. and the zerg race too. even some key alliance biased streamers saying stuff like "see what happens when its a even match"

the version in classic WOW has the GY in the forward location, like retail Korrak AV version. but remember paladins have +20% speed crusader aura.

in TBC blizz move GY to where it is in retail, way south. imo too south. yes horde had paladins, but from BC to modern BFA retail. alliance will win a race to enemy base. even in TBC and WOTLK, horde had to have a focused premade, and roll into a very bad alliance pug. even then it would not always work out for the horde.