4th person in ICE custody dies in 2020 fiscal, which started last October

[Elegiac]

And called it a pattern, meaning intent. That's despicable and the typical way of posting that has arisen the last few years on MMO-C.

There's clear intent to present these conditions as a deterrent to further immigration and asylum seeking, so yes - the cruelty is the point.

Homicide by negligence is still bad, m'kay.

[Machismo]

And called it a pattern, meaning intent. That's despicable and the typical way of posting that has arisen the last few years on MMO-C.

Do you have any evidence to back up this claim?

I highly doubt you will be able to find evidence from years before you ever came to this site.

[Spectral]

Quite a few people have correctly pointed out that you can't just look at the number of deaths relative to the general population since there are demographic differences and an expected level of responsibility on the part of the organization holding people. That's certainly correct, but leads to the obvious question - what is the expected baseline level of death? Even if everything was being done exactly right (I'm sure it's not), there wouldn't be zero deaths. Without some sort of baseline expectation, I'm not really sure how anyone can form a meaningful opinion on whether the current number is evidence of a terrible injustice or just kind of what you'd expect from a typically mediocre bureaucracy.

[Belize]

Prison population has a much lower death rate than does the general population. Detainees are getting better care than a large portion of our own citizenry

Is that why ICE is preventing volunteer doctors from seeing sick migrants? Because they have such great healthcare?

Get real and stop making excuses from blatant abuses.

[Themius]

It has never been an issue because: there never was such an amount of people to be processed.

Actually the problem is not releasing them after they've made their claim and giving them a date to return.

With case workers and such the return rates were upwards of like 94-98% so there is no excuse not to do this.

[JohnBrown1917]

And called it a pattern, meaning intent. That's despicable and the typical way of posting that has arisen the last few years on MMO-C.

Sorry that you cannot handle the truth about how your country is run by a bunch of etho-nationalists who put refugees in concentration camps so they can get themselves off.

[Themius]

Quite a few people have correctly pointed out that you can't just look at the number of deaths relative to the general population since there are demographic differences and an expected level of responsibility on the part of the organization holding people. That's certainly correct, but leads to the obvious question - what is the expected baseline level of death? Even if everything was being done exactly right (I'm sure it's not), there wouldn't be zero deaths. Without some sort of baseline expectation, I'm not really sure how anyone can form a meaningful opinion on whether the current number is evidence of a terrible injustice or just kind of what you'd expect from a typically mediocre bureaucracy.

There are some clear issues though we can agree on, and should be able to charge negligence.

For instance the 16 year old with the flu and a fever of 103, was to be checked on within 2 hours and brought to an emergency room if his condition persisted.

- They did not check on him
- They quarantined him
- He died because his condition persisted

[Citizen T]

THERE IS A FAMINE GOING ON IN GUATEMALA DUE TO CLIMATE CHANGE

The way asylum works is YOU COME TO THE TARGET COUNTRY AND ASK FOR ASYLUM this hasn't been an issue until now. Not until they were being detained indefinitely with no cause. Which was found to be illegal, so you can't even debate that.

You want to blame parents for having their kids escape a literal famine and try to make it to the USA instead of Bordertown Mexico that has serious problems with gangs, drugs, and sex trafficking? Are you serious? Like for real? What the fuck would you do if you were in Guatemala with kids, dying of starvation? Stay and say "no we can't go, we'd impose. Let's just file our paper, and hope we can live and not die"

Not to mention all the violence issues.

THAT'S CALLED ECONOMIC MIGRATION - NOT ASYLUM I can do that too.

Asylum has two basic requirements. First, asylum applicants must establish that they fear persecution from the government in their home country.[5] Second, applicants must prove that they would be persecuted on account of at least one of five protected grounds: race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or particular social group.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum..._United_States

[Edge-]

And called it a pattern, meaning intent. That's despicable and the typical way of posting that has arisen the last few years on MMO-C.

It is a pattern, dating back to even before the Trump administration. I'm not sure what's "despicable" about it, ICE has a history of poor treatment of detainees and legally questionable behavior, it's a fact, and it's not specific to either political party.

[Spectral]

There are some clear issues though we can agree on, and should be able to charge negligence.

For instance the 16 year old with the flu and a fever of 103, was to be checked on within 2 hours and brought to an emergency room if his condition persisted.

- They did not check on him
- They quarantined him
- He died because his condition persisted

Oh, I'm sure that's not the only one (and yes, I agree on that specific one). I assume a pretty high baseline level of incompetence for any federal bureaucracy, then I tack on a fair bit of callousness or malice based on my general opinion of law enforcement. I'm definitely not going to sit here and claim that ICE are nothing but perfect professionals.

[Draco-Onis]

Why are you not holding those parents responsible for putting their children into those situations. They have the option to file for asylum and stay in Mexico. The truth is, no matter how tragic any of these deaths are, these detainees would have been in worse conditions by staying home or staying in Mexico.

OP even shows numbers from last year as 16 deaths. 4 deaths in 4 months is even less than that rate, but by the title and original post you'd think ICE had erected gas chambers at the border,

Did they change the law so that crossing the border became a felony instead of a misdemeanor? were they the ones who changed the rules so you have to play guess the port of entry? do you blame rape victims for wearing short skirts as well?

[MasterK]

Sorry that you cannot handle the truth about how your country is run by a bunch of etho-nationalists who put refugees in concentration camps so they can get themselves off.

Replying to the wrong person here, Dutchie. I am not from the US...

[JohnBrown1917]

Replying to the wrong person here, Dutchie. I am not from the US...

I don't give a fuck where your from.
[Infraction]

[MasterK]

It is a pattern, dating back to even before the Trump administration. I'm not sure what's "despicable" about it, ICE has a history of poor treatment of detainees and legally questionable behavior, it's a fact, and it's not specific to either political party.

Again, you can't prove that history of poor treatment and especially it leading to deaths. And I have never talked about any political party at all.

[Themius]

THAT'S CALLED ECONOMIC MIGRATION - NOT ASYLUM I can do that too.

Asylum has two basic requirements. First, asylum applicants must establish that they fear persecution from the government in their home country.[5] Second, applicants must prove that they would be persecuted on account of at least one of five protected grounds: race, religion, nationality, political opinion, or particular social group.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asylum..._United_States

Migrating Famine is not economic migration. It is fleeing a natural disaster and starvation. Or do you think famines happen when food doesn't grow because money wasn't planted and watered enough?

Famine plus depressed economy and the rise of gangs, is what creates such a dangerous situation where you have people fleeing because the local gang is looking to kill them. Like that guy who was deported after seeking asylum from violence, and then was promptly killed upon his return. Or the woman that was raped and killed after fleeing for fear of being... killed but was sent back anyway to a death sentence.

Did they deserve to die Thwart? Was their asylum not good enough for you?

[MasterK]

I don't give a fuck where your from.

Then better post more constructive

[starlord]

Replying to the wrong person here, Dutchie. I am not from the US...

you seem to have a lot of opinions about US politics though.

[Themius]

Oh, I'm sure that's not the only one (and yes, I agree on that specific one). I assume a pretty high baseline level of incompetence for any federal bureaucracy, then I tack on a fair bit of callousness or malice based on my general opinion of law enforcement. I'm definitely not going to sit here and claim that ICE are nothing but perfect professionals.

Oh they aren't, a lot of their misdeeds used to go unknown to people outside of DHS. But if anyone followed the local NY papers during 2004-2007 or so the shit ICE was doing was just ridiculous, but they weren't really big stories.

Agents stealing hundreds of thousands. Agents having illegal workers and threatening them with deportation.

[Edge-]

THAT'S CALLED ECONOMIC MIGRATION - NOT ASYLUM I can do that too.

I'd say that's not terribly different from the wave of Irish immigration following the potato famine. And they received a similarly cool reception upon their arrival.

And your'e right, they're not asylum seekers. They'd be refugees, which are similar but different - https://www.uscis.gov/humanitarian/r...sylum/refugees

[I Push Buttons]

Who's fault is that? It's not Obama's cause we had record Deportations under him, because they let the system actually move and tried to get through proceedings swiftly. There was still backlog but it was being worked on diligently in order to go through the claims of everyone trying to come into the country.
When did things start grinding to a halt and detainees began to literally pile up? If I recall correctly...sometime in the last 3 years...

Just one more thing he's run into the fucking ground instead of improving.

The answer to this was always, improve the courts, try to get more judges ect ect. Not grind everything to a halt because someone "Doesn't believe in more judges" Not to mention detaining record numbers of people to ensure they showed up to court was also dumb given studies showed the vast majority DID show up. So we're literally wasting money to break something that was already generally working.

Immigration activists for telling everyone in Central America that coming here and claiming asylum is a free pass into the country.

Defensive Asylum claims (asylum claims made as a legal defense against deportation after illegally entering the country), have increased by over a 1000% in recent years.

Defensive Asylum Claims 2009: 12,176
Defensive Asylum Claims 2019: 147,489

The countries many (if not most at this point) of those people are coming from (El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras, etc.) have been experiencing a decline in violent crime and the like in that same time frame; Honduras in particular, their homicide rate was cut in half between 2011 and 2017... So its not a case of "those countries are worse now/getting worse so it makes sense asylum claims from them are up"... The opposite is true, they are getting better, in some cases much better.

Immigration court used to be a well oiled machine... You got caught, you got detained, you rapidly went before a judge, they were like "yep, you're here illegally, cya", and then you got deported. Now people get caught, claim asylum, and the courts have to sit on them during that whole process, which can take weeks or even longer. In times past the government used to release a lot of people pending their immigration court proceedings, but they are more and more hesitant to do that for most people these days because the rates of court no-shows (IE: undocumented immigrant is released on the promise they will show up to court, they don't, they just vanish into the country) has been increasing in recent years (its up to 44% are no-shows, as of 2019, when it used to be 10% or less that were no-shows years ago).