Iranian General Sulemain and others reported killed in Baghdad airstrike

[Machismo]

Damnit, Hillary!!!!

We knew you'd start a war with Iran.

[downnola]

Damnit, Hillary!!!!

We knew you'd start a war with Iran.

I'm sure glad that "Killary, the Hawk", neoliberal, woke capitalist, and neocon extraordinaire wasn't elected or we'd be picking a fight with Iran right now.

[Bryntrollian]

They threw some rocks. I guess somehow that could be considered a rocket attack?

The Katyusha rocket attack on the US Embassy was carried out by an Iran-backed militia group known as Kata'ib Hezbollah, the precision air strikes in question were in direct retaliation for the embassy attack and carried out against primary Kata'ib Hezbollah targets.

The fact that a prominent Iranian General was with the perpetrators during one of the strikes is hardly surprising.

[ringpriest]

Going to quote myself from last September:

Trump is now caught in a trap entirely of his own making, where he has no good options: 1) if he escalates (i.e. attacks Iran (or supports and attack by the Saudis or Israelis), because that's pretty much the only card he has left) he sends the price of oil through the roof and virtually guarantees that both his already abysmal re-election chances and historically damned presidency go down the proverbial tubes (and such a war can and likely will escalate, again, because the Iranians think Trump will blink if they push him - Putin will cheer, though), 2) do nothing (refuse to negotiate, refuse to strike back materially - maybe he can again beg the Iranians to let him spend a hundred million to blow up an empty airfield and again get told "get bent") and watch as Iran continues to ratchet up the pressure, or 3) capitulate, and go crawling back to Iran and beg them to let him make a worse deal than Obama had (this might actually work, in the sense that he could make the deal and then spin it positively.. if he hadn't lied about everything and pissed off the entire media complex - now, even if he does this and does get a deal (he's a terrible negotiator, by even indirectly touching a deal he turns it to crap - see the recent Afghanistan diplomacy disaster) he's going to be mocked and criticized; such a total reversal might even put some cracks in his cult, something he is doubtless desperate to avoid).

What's actually going to happen? I don't know, but whatever happens, it will be what Trump thinks will be best for Trump (and Russia, because Putin definitely has him on a string), which makes me guess that Trump will try for a short victorious war that (he hopes) will boost his election chances, divert the media from his many failings, and not immediately backfire - he will likely be wrong (I certainly hope my prediction here will be wrong).

Looks like Trump got his marching orders from Putin, and is now proceeding to do his best to wreck the US militarily, diplomatically, and financially.

[nonameelf]

The Katyusha rocket attack on the US Embassy was carried out by an Iran-backed militia group known as Kata'ib Hezbollah, the precision air strikes in question were in direct retaliation for the embassy attack and carried out against primary Kata'ib Hezbollah targets.

The fact that a prominent Iranian General was with the perpetrators during one of the strikes is hardly surprising.

Do you have a link? Because the only rocket attack I see when searching is from back in October, not last week, and was just near the embassy, not on the embassy.

[Rhlor]

sooner or later there was going to be war with Iran, the Military–industrial complex has wanted it for years

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Yes. Ever since you invaded Iraq on false pretences it's quite easy to get a rocket launcher.

How do you think ISIS came to be?
This IS btw: https://thegrayzone.com/2016/08/23/u...eful-tool/amp/

https://thegrayzone.com/2016/10/11/h...mpression=true

ISIS arises when Gaddafi was overthrown, and the United States gave weapons to terrorist groups that later became an Islamic state

[nonameelf]

the United States gave weapons to terrorist groups

This like a brief summery of US/Middle East relations over the last 70 years or so.

[Bryntrollian]

Do you have a link? Because the only rocket attack I see when searching is from back in October, not last week, and was just near the embassy, not on the embassy.

Sorry, you were right the rocket attack carried out by Kata'ib Hezbollah was on a nearby Iraqi military base in Kirkuk, where 4 US service members and a US contractor were killed.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...an/2770555001/

[beanman12345]

Do you have a link? Because the only rocket attack I see when searching is from back in October, not last week, and was just near the embassy, not on the embassy.

I think he's refering to the attack at the military base, maybe, idk trump loves the uneducated.
[Infraction]

[Adam Jensen]

I seem to recall all the republicans saying "Trump is totally anti war! Hillary would have declared a war day one! Trump never would!"

Trump just declared war.

I can understand why this strike occurred. Don't misunderstand, but we also can't forget that this all happened because Trump broke a deal for no reason and he has continued to escalate tension every step of the way.

hIlArY wOuLd StArT wWiIi!!!!!

This bullshit was said to me, out loud, by a man who was my direct supervisor, who is by all accounts intelligent, except when it comes to politics. He's a stupid moron when it comes to politics because he believes every Ben Shapiro bullshit he sees.

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This like a brief summery of US/Middle East relations over the last 70 years or so.

I for one wish we would stop fucking with the ME.

That's the one thing I do like about Tulsi Gabbard. Just about the only thing, but still.

[turboether]

To be fair, how could they know Hezbollah would be hiding behind Iranian generals instead of their usual civilian shields this time.

[Flower Milk]

An impeached president shouldn't be able to start a war. This is insane. Also this:

https://twitter.com/goangelo/status/...279466503?s=21

"Our president will start a war with Iran because he has absolutely no ability to negotiate. He's weak and he's ineffective. So the only way he figures that he's going to get reelected and is sure as you're sitting there is to start a war with Iran."
- Donald Trump

[nonameelf]

To be fair, how could they know Hezbollah would be hiding behind Iranian generals instead of their usual civilian shields this time.

Not Hezbollah. PMF, which is a Iraqi state organization that has largely been tasked with fighting ISIS. The US killed members of both Iran's and Iraq's government.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I say we send bone spurs to Iran by himself to negotiate. Send him with a box of “Triggered” and “Art of the Deal”. I’m sure it will be smoothed over.

[Captain N]

In what I'm sure is totally unrelated news -- the price of oil shot up to its highest since September because of said attack.

https://www.aljazeera.com/ajimpact/o...UY5K1gFnGyaxTo

[Skroe]

Man. Conflicted feelings on this one. There is a lot of angles to this.

First, for anyone who has followed the war in Iraq since the beginning the death of Sulemain is an unambiguously good moment. The Quuds Force / IRGC ran a terrorist campaign during the US Peacekeeping mission (and after) that killed hundreds and maimed thousands of US troops and countless more Iraqis. They did it as a part of their secret war for influence in the region, against the United States. Many US commanders have wanted this man dead for years, and many are undoubtedly celebrating. His spot in hell is well deserved.

It robs Iran of it's most important military leader and one of its more likely candidates to be the next Supreme Leader when Khameni dies in the next decade. This will genuinely hurt Iran as it robs them of a lifetime of experience, connections and institutional knowledge they'll find very hard to replace. Iran is not like Western Countries where senior commanders have an "up or out" policy. Sulemain was genuinely irreplaceable in the near term.

The US probably should have responded after Iran shot down our drone in international airspace. But the US absolutely had to respond when an Iranian backed militia stormed out embassy in Iraq. That is the one rule of international relations that is not to be broken, but Iran has never felt bound by it. In responding this way, the US has shown that there will be severe consequences for such an audacious action. I think it is calibrated perfectly because it makes the US look very strong in the region again.

Why? Because the US did this within 48 hours. Which means intelligence on Sulemain's movements was excellent and near-real time. Which means no one is safe who opposes the US in the region.

That is all the guininely good side of things. After what Iranian backed militias did though, the US simply had to respond in a decisive way and this is a good way for doing it.

So other angles of it. Does this draw us closer to war with Iran? Absolutely. The US just took out a national hero. And Iran will likely retaliate by going after a senior US figure in the region (military or diplomat) or that of an ally (probably Saudi Arabia). That could easily lead to a spiraling situation, particularly if it is an American. A lot of it is up to Iran. If they want to even the score but not escalate, they'll go after someone among the Saudis. But if they want to escalate, they'll target American interests (and Americans) in the region.

Is war likely to happen with Iran? I still say no. We're still very far away from that. The US isn't remotely positioned for it. Senior US commanders absolutely don't want it. Trump would NEVER get an AUMF for it (not in a million years), which means he's limited to a very narrow conflict and would rapidly exhaust funds, which would make it unworkable. The US military laser focused on China and to a lesser degree Russia, and Iran remains a distraction.

But the fact we're talking about this just shows how fucking terrible US foreign policy towards Iran has been since 2001. We should have seized on rapprochement with them after 9/11. We never should have declared them part of the non-existent Axis of Evil. We never should have pretended their nuclear program was more sophisticated than US intelligence clearly said it was. The Iranian nuclear deal NEVER should have ignored ballistic missiles (and Obama wanted it too much). Trump leaving it and then starting the maximum pressure campaign without anything resembling a strategy is another historically dump geopolitical move.

For those thinking that our idiot President is doing a "wag the dog thing", no. Not this time. Iran threw a major punch with that Embassy sacking, and they needed to be hit back hard, and in fact, the US should hit back several more times just to remind them (and everyone else) how things work on this planet when regional mischiefmakers try and attack the most powerful country on Earth. It should consider launching missile attacks on any offshore installations in the Persian Gulf owned by Iran and making clear that any Iranian ship that even appears threatening to US ships will be attacked.

This was absolutely necessary and it's an important lesson on why country's cannot be passive.

But this won't save Trump. If anything, it gives Nancy Pelosi leverage to delay even more. People's opinions on Trump are never going to change over a foreign policy issue. Their opinions are fixed. There will never be a "rally around the President" moment. So don't see something there that isn't.

The US has spent years turning the other cheek with Iran. The Embassy sacking was too far, and now that message has been sent. The US is long overdue in reminding the rest of the world that we're not their punching bag and they can't get away with outrages actions against us without expecting a brutal, costly response. That's something China and Russia need to learn too. And hopefully they get the messages.

We just took something very valuable from Iran that they'll find very hard to replace anytime soon. Good for the US. But we need to be careful about escalation and be looking at off ramps to issue them. Because you can't deter Iran. Not like you can Russia or China. They are ready to pay extreme costs (far higher than Russia or China, against whom deterrence works). You can only come to a kind of mutual understanding that the bill has been paid in full.

Trump, being the moron that he is, thinks this will probably help save his skin. He's sorely mistaken, and just has assumed an extraordinary risk. Killing the leader of ISIS didn't prevent him from getting impeached, and killing this dude won't prevent him from being dragged in front of the Senate to answer for his considerable crimes.

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Going to quote myself from last September:

Looks like Trump got his marching orders from Putin, and is now proceeding to do his best to wreck the US militarily, diplomatically, and financially.

Agreed. The only winner of a US/Iranian conflict is China and Russia.

Which is exactly why Trump is so keen on it.

It, along with escalation of against North Korea (which is an even more complicated problem) is the the single stupidest geopolitical move the US could do. #1.

We go to war against Iran, kiss US Superpower status goodbye. We lost approximately half our lead relative to China in Iraq and Afghanistan forever war/failures. We'll zero it (and push into deficit) if we plow years and another $1.5 trillion into some boondoggle in Iran that will end terribly for us.

We should be trying to create fissures between the Iranian regime and its people. Instead, all we do is find new ways to drive them together.

[Milchshake]

Considering Trump's basis of action on foreign policy is basically taking the advice of the last foreign despot to talk to him. Putin on Ukraine, Erdogan on Syria.

I wonder if the Saudi king had any influence on this action. The guy loves assassinations.


I support a full and transparent investigation.

For Gen Z’ers too young to remember, you’re probably about to experience a bit of what 2003 felt like.

[Skroe]

Lol, we can surely nuke non-nuclearly armed enemies with safety. You nuke America and it's doomsday for you. Who wanna go to nuclear war with America just to "avenge" Iran? Only an idiot would think like that. You nuke a piece of shit country like Iran and cockroaches fall in line and know their place.
[Infraction]

It is against US policy to utilize nuclear weapons against non-nuclear states.

It would also destroy what little moral authority the US has left.

The US will never do that. Even if North Korea lobbed a nuclear weapon at the US and due to shitty guidance systems, it hits some open field in Oregon and kills only some birds and critters, the US would respond with a massive but conventional attack.

The US would only ever use nuclear weapons against Russia. Even China is doubtful.

[Milchshake]

Also, a reminder for people to young to remember 2012.



And remember who sent troops to the MExican border right before the 2018 elections.

*Warps in Pepperridge Farm cookies*
May the memory of Greymane keep us safe in these dark times.

[Skroe]

The USA has zero moral authority whatsoever. It has committed many atrocities that are only rivaled by freaking Hitler.

This attack is another example of why the world would be a better place without the USA.

The US has moral authority. Far less than it had a few years ago, which itself was rebuilt after the Iraq War demolished it. But we have some. And we'll rebuild it in the future.

As for the rest of the nonsense you posted, we only build the modern international system / liberal international order, so of course you, a privileged European wannabe-communist, detest it. Let this be a reminder to someone like you, an enemy of America, that your heroes are never safe, and that the little things you consider victories here and there are illusions... really, the US is exercising restraint. And now that we're not, this is what it does: kill one of the most high value targets in the world, a general in an adversary nation, within two days of his latest outrage.

Your side is hopelessly over matched. You'll never win. You're doomed, you see, to see things like this the rest of your life.

Defeat.
After.
Defeat.

Now that being said, hopefully, this is the end of it, because a peaceful outcome is always preferrible and it's our deep foolishness and recklessness that let it get to this point. There has never been a comprehensive dialog with Iran, the US and the Saudis to establish a regional order that all three are mutual stakeholders of, and there should have been many, many years ago. And we've had leverage on both sides to force there to be one. We've never used it.

Hopefully the good that comes from this is that taking Sulemain off the map opens the door to a peaceful resolution. But I have my doubts.